STUPID STUPID QUESTION - Explain Different Sects

[yewchapel]

It's just funny because it's true (of all denominations)! No special knowledge about Reformed Baptist churches :)

[ShesCrafty]

Am I the only heartless one thinking it is annoying for someone to expect us to brief them on "Christianity and all its sects"?

I get that experiential questions or subtleties are great for discussion questions here, but seriously "What is Baptist?" or "What is Episcopalian" or "Who is this Jesus guy people keep referencing?" are things that wikipedia, google, or the like are more appropriate for.

Am I the only heartless one thinking it is pretty fucking easy to just not read a thread that annoys you? The OP asked a question about religion that others seem to enjoy answering, so in that case, it seems quite appropriate.

[So Says I]

Thank you, everybody, for all the wonderful information. This has been the most educational Saturday night I've had in ages. :D

[tropicalmama]

I'm an Anglican - high-church, so we use incense, bells, candles, statues etc during services. I would not consider myself Protestant - I'm not a Roman Catholic but consider Anglicanism to be in the Catholic tradition with its use of Scripture, Tradition and Reason and the belief in Apostolic succession (which is the belief that ordaining clergy has been passed down by the Apostles). Emphasizing the Catholic heritage of Anglicanism is known as Anglo-Catholicism and is actually a pretty recent movement within Anglicanism, starting in the 19th Century with the Oxford Movement and Tractarians (Cardinal Newman was part of this before he converted to Catholicism). Priests were actually jailed for wearing vestments in 19th Century England due to anti-ritualist laws, but now most Anglican priests wear some kind of vestment (vestments are what clergy wear when administering a sacrament, basically the coloured robes ;) ) and Anglicanism now is much more diverse than it was before. There are also very low-church, Protestant-style Anglicans who are pretty much indistinguishable from say, Baptists (bear in mind that Baptists in the UK at least are not like Baptists in the US) but most Anglicans are somewhere in-between. Certainly my church is very 'high up the candle' and Catholic-style.

I can answer questions on Anglicanism but I mostly know about UK Anglicanism. Most Anglican churches elsewhere would have particular sub-groups I wouldn't be aware of (like I know that Sydney Anglicanism is almost fundie, but I think Melbourne Diocese is much more relaxed - but I'm not Aussie so I don't know). Warning - we're bloody confusing even to ourselves :D

I am a high church anglican in Australia. I have a fairly conservative bishop and diocese and our services sound like your, bells etc. Most aussie Anglicans wish that sydney would finally do what they keep threatening to do and just break away....the big problem with that for them would be real estate....the anglican church of Australia owns their churches...so we have to put up with them till one side breaks...(they leave or get booted.) its all pretty hard to explain how they are so different and the whys. There is a sydney anglican church plant near us and really the only anglican thing about them is that they have anglican in the offical church name.

With the Australian Anglican ordaniariate started last year things may start getting interesting here for us. As of now there are only a few members and none on the east coast where I live.

[LainieR]

There's been some nasty splintering within the Anglican church in Canada over the horrors of gay marriage *insert eye roll here*. Lawsuits and other very christian nonsense.

And asking about different demoniations is totally appropriate. I bet there's a good chunk of christians out there that couldn't explain their denomination beyond "Durrr...not Catholic"

[Guest Anonymous]

Am I the only heartless one thinking it is annoying for someone to expect us to brief them on "Christianity and all its sects"?

I get that experiential questions or subtleties are great for discussion questions here, but seriously "What is Baptist?" or "What is Episcopalian" or "Who is this Jesus guy people keep referencing?" are things that wikipedia, google, or the like are more appropriate for.

In principle, I agree the best place to search for a rudimentary education is Wiki or Google. But if you don't have the vocabulary to perform the search in the first place, ( eg knowing the difference between sects and denominations) then it doesn't hurt to ask for a clue to start you off. But the topic probably belongs best in SOTDRT or Chatter. It's not really Snark.

[RosyDaisy]

I can provide some info on the Church of Christ. The Churches of Christ have no central organization like the Southern Baptist Convention. Individual churches will work together on missions and other projects, but each congregation is independent and autonomous. The lowest level of leadership are the deacons, and elders are the highest. The minister is selected by the elders. There are also Sunday School teachers and youth. Women can only serve as Sunday school teachers to children and teenagers, work in the nursery, and prepare the Communion trays. The Bible is the sole authority...no other texts. It's usually the King James version, but I have seen English and American Standard versions.

There is no liturgy or memorized prayers, but the worship service usually follows this outline: Sunday school, opening prayer (not memorized but from the heart) Bible passage reading, singing (singing is always a capella), Communion (grape juice not wine), collection plate, more singing, sermon, closing prayer, opportunity to come before the congregation to be baptized or to admit wrong doing and ask forgiveness. Only people who have been baptized can take Communion. Baptism is by immersion, and usually happens in early teens. They also have Wednesday night Bible study.

Most churches are very conservative ranging from fundie-lite to full on fundie. Quiverfull is not encouraged. Birth control is not considered evil but abortion and homosexuality are. It's ok for women to work outside the home, but there is always blatant sexism in that women cannot lead the church or speak up in church. Public education and college aren't considered evil, but are encouraged.

Having said all of that, some families and individuals can be hardcore fundie or quite liberal. However in my experience, most fall somewhere on the fundie spectrum. My family, fortunately, was closer to the liberal side thanks to my father who was raised Methodist. When I grew up, I left the church because I took issue with most of their teachings...especially about women, abortion, and homosexuality. I'm still a Christian, just a liberal one. I found my place at a community based church that is progressive and liberal. My family understood, and didn't shun me. Shunning is just inconceivable to us. We have a saying, "never turn your back on family"

ETA: The church doesn't recognize religious holidays...not even Christmas or Easter (although individuals and families often do Santa and the Easter Bunny) because the Bible doesn't give specific dates for those. Also, they believe that Christ should be remembered everyday. They also don't recognize saints outside of the apostles.

[stacyf]

I was raised a Congregationalist (United Church of Christ) and have spent most of my life attending other Protestant churches because I lived outside of New England and in an area where the there was one Congregational Church in the entire state and not near where I lived. I have always wondered where we fit into this Protestant soup, I always believed that we were descendants of the Puritans/Pilgrims and have also been told we are Anabaptist. If there is someone out there who could explain all this to me I'd appreciate it. I have tried to research this but never quite understood where we fit in.

[yewchapel]

I am a high church anglican in Australia. I have a fairly conservative bishop and diocese and our services sound like your, bells etc. Most aussie Anglicans wish that sydney would finally do what they keep threatening to do and just break away....the big problem with that for them would be real estate....the anglican church of Australia owns their churches...so we have to put up with them till one side breaks...(they leave or get booted.) its all pretty hard to explain how they are so different and the whys. There is a sydney anglican church plant near us and really the only anglican thing about them is that they have anglican in the offical church name.

With the Australian Anglican ordaniariate started last year things may start getting interesting here for us. As of now there are only a few members and none on the east coast where I live.

Thanks for the info! I wish Sydney would break away too, since banning chasubles (for non-Anglicans, these are a kind of vestment also worn by Catholic priests, hence the banning :roll: ) and female deacons (which is bizarre since there are female deacons in the Bible) seems like a massive two fingers to Canterbury. Unfortunately a lot of conservative evangelical Anglicans over here LOVE Sydney and Matthias Media resources and would pitch an absolute fit if Sydney were made to leave rather than it be their own decision. Having spoken to conservative evangelical Anglicans here, they're not interested in being Anglican, just the money, resources and 'official' status of being in the Anglican church :?

[yewchapel]

I was raised a Congregationalist (United Church of Christ) and have spent most of my life attending other Protestant churches because I lived outside of New England and in an area where the there was one Congregational Church in the entire state and not near where I lived. I have always wondered where we fit into this Protestant soup, I always believed that we were descendants of the Puritans/Pilgrims and have also been told we are Anabaptist. If there is someone out there who could explain all this to me I'd appreciate it. I have tried to research this but never quite understood where we fit in.

In my (limited admittedly) Congregationalists are Reformation churches, very like Methodists and Presbyterians and now in many places, are part of the United Reformed Church rather than their own denomination which might be why you couldn't find another Congregationalist church! Not Anabaptist. Over here (UK), the URC is fairly liberal as are Methodists and Presbyterians in general (most Presbyterians are in Scotland because it's the national church there). I don't know if it's called the URC in the US, I know it's the United Church of Canada in Canada but it's basically the same thing.

[samurai_sarah]

Yewchapel - I have a somewhat daft question, which maybe you would know the answer to. How close is high-church Anglicanism to Catholicism? I mean, in terms of ritual, not doctrine and dogma. I'm asking, because a while ago, I found myself inside a CofE church for a concert, hadn't bothered to read the sign outside, and had a hell of a time trying to figure out whether I was inside a Catholic church or not. In the end only a tiny thing gave it away, and I've been wondering ever since if the differences are more noticeable in rituals and traditions. I suppose I could just attend an Anglican service, but if you know the answer that would save me from having to get up early on a Sunday. Maybe you've attended a Catholic mass before, and know the answer? If not, I'll get over my laziness one of these days. :)

[salsa]

Charles and John Wesley were Anglican priests around the same time as the Baptists were spreading their wings. They came to the colonies under the Church of England but they ran into some trouble there. There's a story that Charles Wesley got arrested and run out of Georgia for a marriage proposal gone wrong. The brothers split from the Anglican Church and established the Methodist Church.[/quote

Actually, they never split from the Anglican church and did not desire to establish a new denomination, although that ended up happening. I didn't know anything about Charles getting run out of Georgia (in fact, I don't remember that Charles went with John on his mission to the colonies), but it is true that John arrived in Savannah and preached his little heart out - to not very much success. However, enough of a spark was born that the word spread.

It was on the sea journey, when a storm came up, that John, very seasick, was impressed by the Moravians who were on board and the peace and calm with which they weathered the storm. This would influence his theology fairly profoundly and soon after, he was at a worship service at the church at Aldersgate, and he felt his heart strangely warmed, feeling God's presence personally and deeply for the first time.

The Methodists were not part of the reformation but consider themselves to be Protestant, as they believe similarly.

Liturgy - refers both to the ritual during a worship service and also the church year.

.... as to the OP - see what can of worms you opened up???? :lol: ...

[yewchapel]

Yewchapel - I have a somewhat daft question, which maybe you would know the answer to. How close is high-church Anglicanism to Catholicism? I mean, in terms of ritual, not doctrine and dogma. I'm asking, because a while ago, I found myself inside a CofE church for a concert, hadn't bothered to read the sign outside, and had a hell of a time trying to figure out whether I was inside a Catholic church or not. In the end only a tiny thing gave it away, and I've been wondering ever since if the differences are more noticeable in rituals and traditions. I suppose I could just attend an Anglican service, but if you know the answer that would save me from having to get up early on a Sunday. Maybe you've attended a Catholic mass before, and know the answer? If not, I'll get over my laziness one of these days. :)

Not a daft question! In terms of liturgy/ritual, EXTREMELY similar. I actually went to Saturday evening mass when I was at a conference and it was all very familiar - I was just tripped up by saying 'and with your spirit' instead of 'and also with you'. There was no incense or bells at the elevations which I have in my own church, and I think a lot of high-church Anglicanism is actually higher than the average UK Catholic mass. Some Anglo-Catholic churches actually use the Missal and obviously the Ordinariate do too. I dislike this because a) the only liturgy licensed for use by Anglicans in the UK is the Book of Common Prayer 1662 (traditional language) and Common Worship (modern language) and b) if you're in the Anglican church using Anglican money and buildings, you should use Anglican liturgy imo. I don't mind people wanting to go to Rome, but I do mind Anglicans wanting to have their cake and eat it too, ie use Catholic Missals etc but be able to be a married priest. My own church is very Anglo-Catholic - my priest has a lot of personal Marian piety so we have statues of Mary EVERYWHERE and a Sacred Heart statue too, and Our Lady of Walsingham Prayers every month. Yet we use the modern language Common Worship, because we are still Anglican and we want to use modern language so we are inclusive.

[samurai_sarah]

Not a daft question! In terms of liturgy/ritual, EXTREMELY similar. I actually went to Saturday evening mass when I was at a conference and it was all very familiar - I was just tripped up by saying 'and with your spirit' instead of 'and also with you'. There was no incense or bells at the elevations which I have in my own church, and I think a lot of high-church Anglicanism is actually higher than the average UK Catholic mass. Some Anglo-Catholic churches actually use the Missal and obviously the Ordinariate do too. I dislike this because a) the only liturgy licensed for use by Anglicans in the UK is the Book of Common Prayer 1662 (traditional language) and Common Worship (modern language) and b) if you're in the Anglican church using Anglican money and buildings, you should use Anglican liturgy imo. I don't mind people wanting to go to Rome, but I do mind Anglicans wanting to have their cake and eat it too, ie use Catholic Missals etc but be able to be a married priest. My own church is very Anglo-Catholic - my priest has a lot of personal Marian piety so we have statues of Mary EVERYWHERE and a Sacred Heart statue too, and Our Lady of Walsingham Prayers every month. Yet we use the modern language Common Worship, because we are still Anglican and we want to use modern language so we are inclusive.

Thank you for your answer! That was very interesting. Until that visit to a church, I always thought that the differences must be greater, so I was quite surprised. And now I'm surprised that the Anglican church does Marian piety. I thought that was more of a Catholic and Orthodox thing, and that the CofE rejected it. Learnt something new there. Thanks! :)

edited for wording

[yewchapel]

Things like Marian piety vary from church to church, as does the closeness or not to Catholic worship. Most Anglican churches in England at least (I can't comment on Scottish Episcopalians or the Anglican church in Wales or Northern Ireland) are 'middle of the road' and wouldn't do Marian piety! But certainly, Marian piety is allowed - there's not a huge amount that's not allowed in Anglicanism ;) Common Worship (which most churches use) isn't hugely different to the modern Catholic Missal so most Anglican churches will be at least familiar to a Catholic I think. Most Anglican priests will use robes of some kind, for instance, at least a stole for Holy Communion.

[Dysfundamental]

I was raised a Congregationalist (United Church of Christ) and have spent most of my life attending other Protestant churches because I lived outside of New England and in an area where the there was one Congregational Church in the entire state and not near where I lived. I have always wondered where we fit into this Protestant soup, I always believed that we were descendants of the Puritans/Pilgrims and have also been told we are Anabaptist. If there is someone out there who could explain all this to me I'd appreciate it. I have tried to research this but never quite understood where we fit in.

A number of my ancestors were Congregational Church ministers in the 1600s and 1700s in New England. It was definitely a movement that comes from the Pilgrim contingent---the "Congregational" moniker refers to the church covenant that members of each congregation signed. It's an Anabaptist movement, a Reformed (inspired by John Calvin) movement, and a Presbyterian (rejecting an episcopal hierarchy) movement.

John Cotton (after whom Cotton Mather was named) was the most influential theologian for the early Congregationalist movement. He was a Church of England clergyman who became a Dissenter/Non-Conformist and left Boston, England for the Massachusetts Bay Colony in the 1630s.

[Swamptribe]

It's not a stupid question, but it's not an easy question to answer. There are college courses on this kind of stuff. If you are really interested though there are many excellent books (including 'dummies guides' on the subject) and even lots of information on the web explaining the differences between the main 'schools' of Christianity. There really aren't simple one or two paragraph answers for the differences, and there is a great deal of overlap.

[mockingbird]

I was raised Catholic and I know this is way oversimplified, but I always viewed it as a continuum, like this:

Evangelical -------------------------------------------------------------------------- Catholic

sola scripture, ---------------------------------------------------------------------- church tradition, works-based salvation

faith-based salvation

non-liturgical ----------------------------------------------------------------------- very liturgical

*sola scripture = scripture only, not basing interpretations of the Bible on tradition

And all the Protestant denominations fall somewhere on the continuum. For example Anglicanism/Episcopalianism is closer to the Catholic end. Something like Methodist or Lutheran would be further along towards the Evangelical end (exactly where depends on which denomination of Methodist or Lutheran). Non-denominational churches usually fall on the Evangelical end. Fundies are off even more to the left on the Evangelical end (ha. may have made that the left side on purpose). Even Catholic fundies seem to have a lot of the more evangelical type beliefs, just applied to Catholicism. Orthodox Christianity is a little more to the right than Catholicism. Edit: See Abigail's post, they are more right liturgically (very traditional), but more liberal doctrinally.

I also think a lot of the conflicts that created many of the Protestant denominations relate to one of the issues I mentioned above. Sola scripture (and with it, the right of people to read the Bible for themselves and decide) was a key part of Luther's complaints. But also, Presbyterians rejecting the idea of bishops has to do a lot with the autonomy of believers in determining what to believe, so does Henry VIII wanting to get divorced and apply his own interpretation of the Bible but not hugely changing the tradition of having a set liturgy, etc.

The main other conflicts I remember studying were Calvinists (predestination - I consider them Protestants but kind-of in a separate category than the others since they split off pretty shortly after Luther... you can have Calvinist fundies too) and Anabaptists (adult baptism - I don't consider them Protestants now since at least in America they are represented by the Mennonites and Amish who live so differently than all the other Christian denominations - I definitely would call them Christians but just not Protestant, Catholic or Orthodox).

Then you have the Mormons and Jehovah's Witnesses. I don't know much about the JWs besides the no birthday parties and no blood transfusions beliefs. The Catholic Church doesn't consider the Mormons to be Christians because they use an additional holy book - The Book of Mormon. (I think this is one of the arguments some more evangelical Christians use against the Catholic church since the Bibles are different.) I've never gotten the impression that Joseph Smith ever had any pressing theological issues with any of the existing churches so much as he was on a huge power trip and wanted to marry multiple women, but that's me.

[stacyf]

A number of my ancestors were Congregational Church ministers in the 1600s and 1700s in New England. It was definitely a movement that comes from the Pilgrim contingent---the "Congregational" moniker refers to the church covenant that members of each congregation signed. It's an Anabaptist movement, a Reformed (inspired by John Calvin) movement, and a Presbyterian (rejecting an episcopal hierarchy) movement.

Dysfundamental, many if my ancestors were also Congregational ministers. The most famous would probably be Thomas Mayhew and/or Tristram Mayhew. My ancestors came over on the Mayflower and I actually share an ancestor with Barbara Bush and therefore George 42. I thought it was an Anabaptist movement but was unsure of how it fit into the Protestant tree.

[Dysfundamental]

Dysfundamental, many if my ancestors were also Congregational ministers. The most famous would probably be Thomas Mayhew and/or Tristram Mayhew. My ancestors came over on the Mayflower and I actually share an ancestor with Barbara Bush and therefore George 42. I thought it was an Anabaptist movement but was unsure of how it fit into the Protestant tree.

That is too funny. We are probably distant cousins! My Mayflower ancestor was Degory Priest.

[CruitLvr]

I don't think it's a stupid question at all. As others have said, there are essentially sects within sects within sects. There are at least 62 recognized sects of Baptists within the U.S., for example. Beliefs and doctrine can vary greatly between the different sects, even if they all fall under Baptist, which falls under Christianity.

[stacyf]

That is too funny. We are probably distant cousins! My Mayflower ancestor was Degory Priest.

Mine is Henry Samson a minor of 15 who accompanied the Tilley family on the voyage.

[latraviata]

Can someone more knowledgeable about these things please take a minute to explain the different "sects" of Christianity? I know, I know - I have Wikipedia at my disposal. But I was raised Agnostic, am currently a secular Humanist, and have no particular knowledge of the Bible (never had the desire or need to read it). I don't get the difference between, say, a Methodist and a Lutheran, or a Presbyterian, or a Protestant. And our fundie families - are they mostly Baptist? Or Pentacostal? But when I think Pentacostal, I think snake handlers .. I don't know. Sorry. I realize how ignorant I am. And thank you for your time and patience.

Who determines what is a cult and what criteria will be used?

They are all sects. Why a stupid question? A 3000 year old fairy tale book and uncountable interpretations/denominations, that seems rather stupid.

[Coconut Flan]

Orthodox Christianity is a little more to the right than Catholicism.

Actually not really. While liturgically orthodoxy is very traditional, theologically it's less centrally structured and less conservative than Catholicism. Birth control wasn't outlawed for instance nor was divorce.

[stacyf]

Whether a fairy tell, a legend, folklore, a belief or just a story wanting a knowledge about "it", whatever "it" might be isn't stupid.