Kim from LiaS didn't register her older kid's births

[lilith]

We've had a few people lately talk about how the Coghlans seem more fun and less crazy than some other fundies. That always blows my mind - Kim is the woman who wears a concealed pistol at all times, including while nursing, who stacked her daughters on Costco shelving and birthed on a chicken poo covered verandah, among other crazy highlights.

And now we can add this quote from LiaS - "I shared these links on Facebook, but I heard a crazy rumor that some people don’t have facebook accounts. That sounds almost as unusual as not having a birth certificate or a social security number, but my kids didn’t have those until 2001, so I guess it’s possible."

Yes, Kim and Perry didn't bother with birth certificates or social security numbers for their first three or four kids. They were all girls, after all, so I guess they never expected them to work or enrol in school, but surely they must have realised they would need them to apply for marriage licenses.

I just don't get the Coghlan love. They might not wear frumpers, but Kim is big in modesty and femininity and the husband and father as supreme leader of the home. They might go to the gym, but only with their dad. Perry is an appallingly ignorant prejudiced redneck, they are gulping the VF koolaid with their occasional wine, and the fact that they let their kids read novels and watch mainstream movies doesn't negate that.

Kim and Perry are second generation fundie homeschoolers. They are part of an intergenerational dominion plan that is actually working and they are scary as fuck. Kim is an advocate if corporal punishment from a young age and believes that all children are born with a sinful nature.

Lets not forget that Kim is convinced that the "abortion lobby" is exaggerating the risks of ectopic pregnancies to kill babies and thinks that women should continue with them, against medical advice, even if it costs their life.

She makes jokes and likes chocolate, but she's still an insane fundie.

Edited cause frumpers aren't trumpets, despite what my phone thinks.

[lilwriter85]

I have never been a fan of Kim and Perry. Wasn't there a previous thread about fundies and delayed birth certificates on here?

[gibbsgirls]

I guess they didn't claim the kids on their taxes? When my second was born it was really close to the end of the year, so when we did taxes (we have them ready by the 2nd wk of Jan) we didn't have her SS# yet. We sent the tax forms off and were notified by the IRS a couple wks later that our exemption for her was denied since there was not a SS# submitted. We had to do an amended form once we received her # a couple wks later.

[tabitha2]

I apparently never had proper hospital birth certificate :D

[lilith]

I guess they didn't claim the kids on their taxes? When my second was born it was really close to the end of the year, so when we did taxes (we have them ready by the 2nd wk of Jan) we didn't have her SS# yet. We sent the tax forms off and were notified by the IRS a couple wks later that our exemption for her was denied since there was not a SS# submitted. We had to do an amended form once we received her # a couple wks later.

I'm guessing that that's why they applied for the certificates and SSNs in 2001 - to claim the kids on their tax return. I don't know why they didn't earlier - they always seem to have struggled financially, especially early in their marriage.

[Emme]

She's batshit. She deals with crying boys by telling them to man up. I dislike her. Thankful her daughter got married and hoping that girl is happy!!!!! Lord knows her mom was more focused on herself than on her daughter's wedding.

[gardenvarietycitizen]

Just curious - when did it become standard to get kids SSNs at birth? People around me my age (40's) mostly recall going to apply for the SSN before getting a first job (usually in high school). At some point they reformed the tax code so you needed the SSN to claim kids, I think? Just don't remember the year...

Mind you, I think it's important for your kids to have SOME form of official ID, whatever is standard practice for the country they're citizens of. Birth cert, family registry, WHATEVER it is, get it! The fact that she didn't get birth certs definitely seems "out there" to me.

Just from what I've read on her blog, I don't find her very "normal" at all, pants notwithstanding.

[hoipolloi]

Just curious - when did it become standard to get kids SSNs at birth? People around me my age (40's) mostly recall going to apply for the SSN before getting a first job (usually in high school). At some point they reformed the tax code so you needed the SSN to claim kids, I think? Just don't remember the year...

Mind you, I think it's important for your kids to have SOME form of official ID, whatever is standard practice for the country they're citizens of. Birth cert, family registry, WHATEVER it is, get it! The fact that she didn't get birth certs definitely seems "out there" to me.

Just from what I've read on her blog, I don't find her very "normal" at all, pants notwithstanding.

IRS may gave started requiring SSNs in the late 1950s or early 60s because that's when I received mine (as a kid) - still have the original SSN card, complete with my 3rd or 4th grade signature.

[Wolfie]

IRS may gave started requiring SSNs in the late 1950s or early 60s because that's when I received mine (as a kid) - still have the original SSN card, complete with my 3rd or 4th grade signature.

I think it was 1986 or 87. I still have my original card from that year. My siblings and I have consecutive numbers because my parents got them for us when it was required.

[desertvixen]

I was born in 1979 in Nevada, and I believe that is when my parents got my SSN.

[apple1]

In 1987, for the first time, Americans had to provide SSNs to claim children as tax exemptions. 1987 was also the first year that (some states) SSNs became automatic upon registering a child's birth; this became nationwide in 1989.

I (voluntarily) applied for SSNs for both of my daughters right after their birth (81 and 83).

I did not get my own SSN until I needed it to get a learner's permit (for driver education). I was 16.

Pretty sure getting the tax exemptions trumped flying under the radar for Kim.

[Wolfie]

it was 1987 according to snopes. It doesn't mean that some didn't have them before, but that most parents didn't get them until then. That means I was 10 or 11 when my parents got mine, and that's why I remember the law changing. http://www.snopes.com/business/taxes/dependents.asp

[Dysfundamental]

My brother and I got our Social Security Numbers when our mum died in 1976; we had to get them so that our dad could claim our survivors' benefits. I was 12, he was 10.

[Shaz]

1986 or 87 sounds right to me. My parents got me and my brother ssns and birth certificates then. Mine is actually a delayed certificate of birth because I was four or five at the time. I was scared it would be a problem when I got my first passport and brought my baby book (as the US government suggests to help verify a delayed certificate of birth). Luckily they accepted it. If they hadn't the next level of proof is an affidavit sign by the person who delivered you or the hospital bill from your birth. I was born at home with a midwife who has since moved to Argentina. Yay hippy parents!

I read MDC message boards and there is some high quality crazy over there about birth certificates. mothering.com/community/t/1372233/success-now-about-that-birth-certificate

There was another much longer thread last year on the same topic, but it may have been deleted. It got to the point where people were researching the OP and through her daughter's unusual name from another thread pointed out that her family lived with her in-laws who were farmers who received subsidies from the government. I think there is a huge amount of overlap between fundies and the sparkling alternative community in terms of motherhood, gender essentialism, distrust of science, organic food, and alternative medicine.

[flyaway]

I think it was 1986 or 87. I still have my original card from that year. My siblings and I have consecutive numbers because my parents got them for us when it was required.

That would match pretty well when I remember getting my SSN -- 4th or 5th grade after changing schools, which would have been 1987 or 1988.

[starfish]

I'm pretty sure they got them only because Lord Perryton decided to so. Otherwise, they would not have bothered.

They are weird. I loathe Perry. I hope that oldest daughter moves away, goes to college, and delays child bearing

for as long as she wants to. You know Kim really wants for them to be pregnant at the same.

I was reading her blog today and there was an question from a reader about taking young children into church.

The reader had biological children and foster children. The fosters were a one-year old and a newborn. The reader was frustrated because she could not spank the 1 year old for acting up in church due to the terms of the foster arrangement. I wil repeat: the reader wanted to spank a 12 month old. The reader called it "biblical punishment".

Kim and her minions were full of helpful advice about going to the family intergrated churches, and soon a heated discussion was on about the family integrated churches vs. churches with nurseries. Several readers said they spanked their young toddlers and made them stand against the wall during church. Way to go, fundies. I'm sure Jesus really appreciates your doing that in his name.

[tabitha2]

what did she say?

[starfish]

Kim really pushed the intergrated churches, and other readers responded with a heavy guilt trip about how evil the church nurseries are, and just because it's easier for the mom, you should totally have your babies sitting with you. Other folks who were more normal said these readers were making an idol out of family integrated churches.

[starfish]

Oh and one complete idiot spoke of this horrible contraption her preacher invented for children in the church service.

It was some kind of wooden restraining seat you put on the pew that fit over the child where they can't move. It sounded awful and rather unsafe.

It wasn't just for babies either.

[NurseNell]

I apparently never had proper hospital birth certificate :D

The hospital issued form is not considered a legal birth certificate. In the past you could sometimes use them as proof of birth but but not anymore. You need the one issued by the state.

[tabitha2]

I mean I had a hospital one, not a gov't one.

I had no pass port...the church group I went to mexico with tried to get me in on my hospital one-''we will stand you in the middle of line, they don't check as thoroughly'' ended up at a Mexican bus station at 2 in the morning. first got an absolutely no, she can't come in'' :doh: then another officer said I could.

[yetanothermeg]

Oh and one complete idiot spoke of this horrible contraption her preacher invented for children in the church service.

It was some kind of wooden restraining seat you put on the pew that fit over the child where they can't move. It sounded awful and rather unsafe.

It wasn't just for babies either.

WTF? Just when I think fundies can't surprise me, they freakin surprise me.

Why don't they just go full-on Puritan and have a guy go up and down the isle whacking anyone who isn't paying attention with a stick. Oh, that's right, cause then the headships would have to taste their own medicine.

[So Many Lies]

I don't think they are less crazy at all. I think they are slightly more tolerable. I could be wrong on that, I am still reading and still pretty open. And God, no, I don't mean the politics. Or Perry. No, definately not Perry. My beliefs about LiAS really stems from the fact that I really loathe all this "beautiful girlhood" stuff. The smocks, the dress-ups. And the uninspiring crafts. And the fact that all girls are often expected to be sweet and nice and sugar 'n' spice, when not all girls are like that, or can be. I like to think they may be slightly more open to expressing feelings, even if it's within a patriarchal framework. Actually, I just think I'm really confused about them :?

I don't know if not registering the birth is terribly scandalous, just seems rather lazy, although some countries will fine you for this. I do think that conspiracy theories abound with regard to registering births, something to do with the fact that once we are registred we become corporate entities, that we are basically owned by banks. I don't know if lias believe in that kind of thing but many fundamentalists do. I know of a group who homebirth and refuse to register ie child never appears on any government register of any kind.

[lilith]

I think the main reasons the LiaS girls haven't been forced to be such "girly girls" as the average VF daughter is simply because Kim had so damn many of them before she had a son. They were living out in the country and Kim let them run wild to some extent while she was indoors with the babies.

The girls were still expected to cook, clean, sew and care for their siblings, and Kim is even more into patriarchy and unquestioning wifely submission than most fundy women, she just doesn't dress it up in faux Victoriana and talk about it constantly. When it comes up she is very firm about it.

[tabitha2]

inashoe.com/2011/10/4-moms-keeping-up-with-housework-in-the-midst-of-homeschooling

I always get the feeling their places is rather a mess...