CT School shooting

[Minerva]

Facebook is telling me two of my friends shared Fuckabee's video. One of them my poor fundie Catholic friend who I'm starting to think might be the most sheltered and gullible person I know. The other is an acquaintance who was making fun of it.

[pomology]

I'm assuming that her stepchildren have the same surname as their father, a name not on the list of the victims, so that's why I've been assuming they're safe. I won't be into the office till tomorrow, but I just sent an email to one of my teammates to see whether she's learned anything.

Noah is Jewish (I read about him in the New York Times and started tearing up as I read the article). So, if your coworker isn't Jewish, that answers the question right there.

[QualifiedMidwife]

There's this awful thing going around FB ...a poem re-written from The Night before Christmas (I think it was) all about how those kids went dashing happily into heaven with Jesus. I couldn't believe it when I saw it.

Yeah, I've seen that too. It was on another forum where a moderator was telling us it's the norm in the south to have a grenade launcher in your house. :( For what conceivable reason does someone need a fucking grenade launcher??

I was also reading an article here (Australia) where Republican congressman Louie Gohmert suggested the principal could have "blown the shooter's head off if only she had kept a gun in her office". Just what???

[OkToBeTakei]

I had to take a break from this. Not you guys, far from it, I tend to read everything. Also my FB is not that kind of playground. I have been reading all, some good, some bad and a varied amount of news, political, the right, the left, the downright wrong.

But I just do not get it. I have yet to read any aspect of the right to bear arms in respect of this tragedy that will make me think it is right. They are all just excuses...to own a gun. Because you can.

If I decided tomorrow that I wished to kill somebody or a lot of people with a gun. I would have to plan this. I would need to look in to procuring one illegally. I would need to 'make' enquiries, I might start this online, or maybe a word in the ear of somebody I think may be able to help me. It is a funny thought, but most guns in my country are owned by people who use them for their own ends but would probably be very wary of anybody, you know looking to buy a gun. How many drug dealers tend to commit mass shootings? How many would kill you first if they thought you were going to kill children with that gun you bought? Illegal guns will always be there. IF I decided I wanted one, I am resourceful, I could maybe do it. But it would take time and it would not go unnoticed.

I am heartily sick of hearing about poor Mental health provision used as an excuse. Because that is what it is.

[jaynie]

I had to take a break from this. Not you guys, far from it, I tend to read everything. Also my FB is not that kind of playground. I have been reading all, some good, some bad and a varied amount of news, political, the right, the left, the downright wrong.

But I just do not get it. I have yet to read any aspect of the right to bear arms in respect of this tragedy that will make me think it is right. They are all just excuses...to own a gun. Because you can.

If I decided tomorrow that I wished to kill somebody or a lot of people with a gun. I would have to plan this. I would need to look in to procuring one illegally. I would need to 'make' enquiries, I might start this online, or maybe a word in the ear of somebody I think may be able to help me. It is a funny thought, but most guns in my country are owned by people who use them for their own ends but would probably be very wary of anybody, you know looking to buy a gun. How many drug dealers tend to commit mass shootings? How many would kill you first if they thought you were going to kill children with that gun you bought? Illegal guns will always be there. IF I decided I wanted one, I am resourceful, I could maybe do it. But it would take time and it would not go unnoticed.

I am heartily sick of hearing about poor Mental health provision used as an excuse. Because that is what it is.

I agree with all of this, but I think the "would not go unnoticed" bit is an especially important point that people tend to miss. If you can't just walk into Walmart and buy an assault rifle or, WTF, grenade launcher, you have to either steal the gun (in which case the theft will be reported, and police may be on the look out) or procure it from criminals, who are liable to be suspicious of you. Even if you get the gun from the criminal, that's information they might be able to use strategically (negotiating with police, etc). So now you've got an illegal gun. If you get stopped by police for any reason at all and they find it, they can take it off you, charge you, arrest you, whatever the laws dictate. SO this restriction has created several points at which you could be found out, arrested, treated for your issues, whatever. Stopped. No, it doesn't ALWAYS work. But it would damn well make it harder to accomplish a massacre.

The cost of this is that you have to prove you are sane and responsible before you get your unnecessary and over-the-top weapons. What an unreasonable thing to ask of god-fearing 'merikans, just to save a few hundred ordinary lives. /sarcasm

(Seriously -- grenade launchers? I find this whole gun culture just baffling. I don't think I KNOW anybody who owns a gun, even for hunting, let alone for some paranoid fantasy of 'self-defense'...)

[Buzzard]

Like it or not guns are and will always be a part of America. The MH component is a large factor, but there is a simple act that can be passed quickly that can limit the damage that can be done: regulate ammunition. If we have to sign over our first born to buy sudafed we can regulate the quantity and type of ammunition to any individual at any time. I own a gun and a small amount of ammo. When I go to the range I buy it there and use it on site. Without the bullets the guns are nothing more than very expensive paperweights.

[OkToBeTakei]

Like it or not guns are and will always be a part of America. The MH component is a large factor, but there is a simple act that can be passed quickly that can limit the damage that can be done: regulate ammunition. If we have to sign over our first born to buy sudafed we can regulate the quantity and type of ammunition to any individual at any time. I own a gun and a small amount of ammo. When I go to the range I buy it there and use it on site. Without the bullets the guns are nothing more than very expensive paperweights.

That is very interesting. Because it it would be impossible I would imagine to just outright ban. It would probably cause more bad than good. I like your thinking Buzzard. Out of the box. It is hard to go against a culture until you change it, or outwit it :)

[Buzzard]

That is very interesting. Because it it would be impossible I would imagine to just outright ban. It would probably cause more bad than good. I like your thinking Buzzard. Out of the box. It is hard to go against a culture until you change it, or outwit it :)

Gun ownership is a constitutional right. Even the new proposed assault weapons ban would only be for weapons purchased AFTER the bill is passed because you have a 4th amendment right to your property. The guns are here, we have to deal with them, and they will never go away. You do NOT have a right to aquaphilic, talloned, hollow point... whatever... bullets. Basic copper jackets with minimal powder is fine for target practice. A limited amount of hollow points for self defense (I have one box).

If I am only allowed one box of sudafed or risk prosecution per cold season, why can I buy 10000 bullets to hoard in my home? Give me 500 to shoot at the range (and stay at the range) and a small amount for home protection/storage/hunting.

[OkToBeTakei]

Gun ownership is a constitutional right. Even the new proposed assault weapons ban would only be for weapons purchased AFTER the bill is passed because you have a 4th amendment right to your property. The guns are here, we have to deal with them, and they will never go away. You do NOT have a right to aquaphilic, talloned, hollow point... whatever... bullets. Basic copper jackets with minimal powder is fine for target practice. A limited amount of hollow points for self defense (I have one box).

If I am only allowed one box of sudafed or risk prosecution per cold season, why can I buy 10000 bullets to hoard in my home? Give me 500 to shoot at the range (and stay at the range) and a small amount for home protection/storage/hunting.

Or leave them at the range with your guns. Because if nobody else has guns why would you need it for defence unless you wished to kill somebody? I have lived for 43 yrs without this need. My Parents for 80.

A cold tends not to kill. Pseudoephedrine (sudafed) taken in large doses can harm. But it is hard to kill others with it. Funny eh? Some things are very well legalised for safety..others not.

[Boogalou]

Like it or not guns are and will always be a part of America. The MH component is a large factor, but there is a simple act that can be passed quickly that can limit the damage that can be done: regulate ammunition. If we have to sign over our first born to buy sudafed we can regulate the quantity and type of ammunition to any individual at any time. I own a gun and a small amount of ammo. When I go to the range I buy it there and use it on site. Without the bullets the guns are nothing more than very expensive paperweights.

I've heard arguments along these lines before so I have to ask, how hard would it be to make your own bullets?

[Buzzard]

I've heard arguments along these lines before so I have to ask, how hard would it be to make your own bullets?

Its not impossible, but to make them of a quality that would cause significant damage is pretty much impossible. You would need the casings (easy, just get used ones), the proper amount of gunpowder (criminals make meth so they can probably swing that), and a projectile - the "bullet" itself. Thats where the real damage is done. Think of the difference between good ole round bullets (revolutionary war) and armor piercing rounds that can go a mile. Anyone can put a lead slug into a casing, but to cause significant internal damage or even penetrate a human skull would take more skill than most people have and, of course, some form of iron forge to pour the illegal projectile.

The bottom line is, if I'm going to kill 100 people and have to use science, I'm just gonna make a bomb if I have to measure out gunpowder and pack it into casings. Buying the supplies for either can cause a flag and give authorities a head start.

[Buzzard]

http://www.ehow.com/how_2212846_make-ammunition.html

and then once you have your standard casing:

InSJuNvai54

Time consuming and pretty dangerous. (for the record, hollow points are illegal in a number of states so dont try this at home you silly FJers!) Assuming you dont accidentally shoot/blow yourself up in the process you could theoretically crank out a good number of useful bullets in a day, but definitely a tough task.

[Boogalou]

Thanks for answering. I thought (based on nothing, whatsoever) that making bullets would be pretty easy. Clearly, I was wrong. It is an interesting idea to limit or restrict bullets and sounds like it would be a lot easier to do from a legal standpoint, than working towards stricter gun laws.

[GiggleOfGirls]

Yeah, I've seen that too. It was on another forum where a moderator was telling us it's the norm in the south to have a grenade launcher in your house. :( For what conceivable reason does someone need a fucking grenade launcher??

I was also reading an article here (Australia) where Republican congressman Louie Gohmert suggested the principal could have "blown the shooter's head off if only she had kept a gun in her office". Just what???

:shock: Um... no... I'm in the deep south of the US and I don't know a single person who has a grenade launcher :shock: I mean... maybe they just keep them hidden and totally secret, but I doubt it could be called the "norm" :roll: <- at the moderator, who clearly runs in very different circles than I do.

[Witsec7]

Its not impossible, but to make them of a quality that would cause significant damage is pretty much impossible. You would need the casings (easy, just get used ones), the proper amount of gunpowder (criminals make meth so they can probably swing that), and a projectile - the "bullet" itself. Thats where the real damage is done. Think of the difference between good ole round bullets (revolutionary war) and armor piercing rounds that can go a mile. Anyone can put a lead slug into a casing, but to cause significant internal damage or even penetrate a human skull would take more skill than most people have and, of course, some form of iron forge to pour the illegal projectile.

The bottom line is, if I'm going to kill 100 people and have to use science, I'm just gonna make a bomb if I have to measure out gunpowder and pack it into casings. Buying the supplies for either can cause a flag and give authorities a head start.

Lots of folks do their own reloading. I know folks who are champion target shooters and they load their own. How they load and what they load is usually determined by the weapon and the shoot rules. (None of which I'm familiar with.). My uncle that taught me to shoot and handle weapons reloaded most of his life.

[Minerva]

:shock: Um... no... I'm in the deep south of the US and I don't know a single person who has a grenade launcher :shock: I mean... maybe they just keep them hidden and totally secret, but I doubt it could be called the "norm" :roll: <- at the moderator, who clearly runs in very different circles than I do.

Someone was caught keeping a grenade launcher on their balcony in Toronto years ago. Of course it's illegal here. And everyone was baffled that someone would even bother owning one of those.

[AnnieC 305]

A cold tends not to kill. Pseudoephedrine (sudafed) taken in large doses can harm. But it is hard to kill others with it. Funny eh? Some things are very well legalised for safety..others not.

Not if you turn it into meth first.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Methamphetamine

Pseudoephedrine is a major component, that's why it's regulated.

[Kaylee]

I've heard arguments along these lines before so I have to ask, how hard would it be to make your own bullets?

Not very hard with the proper equipment. You can reuse old brass (casings), but they tend to only be good for a couple uses if you're reloading for accuracy. Gunpowder and primers must be purchased. Gun powder can be made if it couldn't be bought, but it would be nowhere as accurate as the commercially available kind. Primers need to be bought, and there have been attempts to regulate them as explosives in the past in order to cut down on reloading. The bullets (projectiles) themselves can be made in a mold out of any old sort of lead - fishing weights and wheel weights are popular to melt down. As far as time consumed, using a good turret press (very common among reloaders and other competitive or avid shooters) I can turn out 500 rounds in a little over 2 hours.

[Hane]

Bumping this thread to say that my colleague stopped by my desk first thing this morning. Her twin stepkids are okay--for now. They were in a part of the school in which they weren't made aware of anything that had gone wrong until the police came to escort them out.

They're aware that their principal has died, but know nothing else so far. One of the two little boys who was just buried was her stepdaughter's little "boyfriend," and now the family is struggling to find a way to tell the children what happened. How the hell do you explain this to a six-year-old?

Most of the Newtown kids are back to school today, but the Sandy Hook Elementary kids are returning after the new year, and to a different school building in a nearby town. I misheard some news that said that the Sandy Hook kids would be back to school today, which I figured must be impossible, considering the fact that the school is a major crime scene.

[contrary]

jesus. i am still just floored by this.

[ricky_ticky]

Not very hard with the proper equipment. You can reuse old brass (casings), but they tend to only be good for a couple uses if you're reloading for accuracy. Gunpowder and primers must be purchased. Gun powder can be made if it couldn't be bought, but it would be nowhere as accurate as the commercially available kind. Primers need to be bought, and there have been attempts to regulate them as explosives in the past in order to cut down on reloading. The bullets (projectiles) themselves can be made in a mold out of any old sort of lead - fishing weights and wheel weights are popular to melt down. As far as time consumed, using a good turret press (very common among reloaders and other competitive or avid shooters) I can turn out 500 rounds in a little over 2 hours.

our old friends, the Paratus Familia, show us how:

paratusfamiliablog.com/2012/10/reloading-in-living-room.html

[thetabmeister]

I apologize if this has already been posted, but I just saw this horrible comment on a Yahoo! article about the survivors of the CT school shooting. It looks like a nutjob conspiracy-theorist Bible-thumper. Hidden because I suppose most will find it upsetting. Who has the time to come up with things like this? It's a poem ripped off "The Night Before Christmas" about God's greater purpose for the tragedy. :(

Twas ' 11 days before Christmas, around 9:38 when 20 beautiful children stormed through heaven 's gate. Their smiles were contagious, their laughter filled the air. They could hardly believe all the beauty they saw there. They were filled with such joy; they didn 't know what to say. They remembered nothing of what had happened earlier that day. “where are we?" asked a little girl, as quiet as a mouse. “This is heaven" declared a small boy. "We’re spending Christmas at God 's houseâ€. When what to their wondering eyes did appear, but Jesus, their savior, the children gathered near. He looked at them and smiled, and they smiled just the same. Then He opened His arms and He called them by name. And in that moment was joy, that only heaven can bring those children all flew into the arms of their King and as they lingered in the warmth of His embrace, one small girl turned and looked at Jesus ' face. And as if He could read all the questions she had He gently whispered to her, "I 'll take care of mom and dad. “then He looked down on earth, the world far below He saw all of the hurt, the sorrow, and woe, then He closed His eyes and He outstretched His hand, “Let My power and presence re-enter this land! “May this country be delivered from the hands of fools†“I’m taking back my nation. I 'm taking back my schools! “Then He and the children stood up without a sound. “Come now my children let me show you around. “Excitement filled the space, some skipped and some ran. All displaying enthusiasm that only a small child can. And I heard Him proclaim as He walked out of sight, “in the midst of this darkness,†I AM STILL THE LIGHT."

[Austin]

I tell you, there's nothing like the slaughter of 20 six-year-olds to bring out the ugliness in some religious people.

:evil:

[thetabmeister]

I tell you, there's nothing like the slaughter of 20 six-year-olds to bring out the ugliness in some religious people.

:evil:

It's like they're glorying in it. What if the tragedies of CT and VA tech had happened to a Christian school or college, or to a home school group? What would they be saying then? I can guarantee they'd be blaming the devil for it. But when it happens to "other" people at a public school, then of course it was "God's plan." :roll:

edit: changed "their" to "they're"

[Turtle]

I apologize if this has already been posted, but I just saw this horrible comment on a Yahoo! article about the survivors of the CT school shooting. It looks like a nutjob conspiracy-theorist Bible-thumper. Hidden because I suppose most will find it upsetting. Who has the time to come up with things like this? It's a poem ripped off "The Night Before Christmas" about God's greater purpose for the tragedy. :(

Twas ' 11 days before Christmas, around 9:38 when 20 beautiful children stormed through heaven 's gate. Their smiles were contagious, their laughter filled the air. They could hardly believe all the beauty they saw there. They were filled with such joy; they didn 't know what to say. They remembered nothing of what had happened earlier that day. “where are we?" asked a little girl, as quiet as a mouse. “This is heaven" declared a small boy. "We’re spending Christmas at God 's houseâ€. When what to their wondering eyes did appear, but Jesus, their savior, the children gathered near. He looked at them and smiled, and they smiled just the same. Then He opened His arms and He called them by name. And in that moment was joy, that only heaven can bring those children all flew into the arms of their King and as they lingered in the warmth of His embrace, one small girl turned and looked at Jesus ' face. And as if He could read all the questions she had He gently whispered to her, "I 'll take care of mom and dad. “then He looked down on earth, the world far below He saw all of the hurt, the sorrow, and woe, then He closed His eyes and He outstretched His hand, “Let My power and presence re-enter this land! “May this country be delivered from the hands of fools†“I’m taking back my nation. I 'm taking back my schools! “Then He and the children stood up without a sound. “Come now my children let me show you around. “Excitement filled the space, some skipped and some ran. All displaying enthusiasm that only a small child can. And I heard Him proclaim as He walked out of sight, “in the midst of this darkness,†I AM STILL THE LIGHT."

I'm really disturbed by the amount of people I know who are reposting this as their Facebook status. It's really unsettling.