Having your boyfriend sleep over might damage your witness

[BravaAmica]

I don't understand the Christian obsession with what other people think. Who the fuck cares? It's your relationship with God, not your roommates, not your pastors and not your parents. Can someone please explain?!

[BravaAmica]

SEX.... the final frontier. :-p

Great. Now the goddamn fundies are ruining Star Trek. Bastards.

[moodygirl86]

I was talking to one of my guyfriends about going with him on a trip to visit a mutual friend. He was like, "but you would have to stay in the same house with us guys... and I'm not comfortable with that."

me: Why, we wouldn't even be sleeping in the same room?

him: I'm still not comfortable with that. And besides, if people find out, they will think we're having sex.

me: no, they won't. Only other super conservative Christians would think that. Regular people on Planet Real World don't generally assume that.

him: really?

me: yes

Punchline: this guy and I are just friends. We're not even attracted to each other. So he's worried that people will suspect that two people who've demonstrated that they don't romantically like each other will have sex? Erm, no.

I am slowly working on educating this guy... which is actually going well.... but it is hard to fight programming.

I know exactly what you mean, Trynn. When I was 16, I made friends with my landlady's son and we formed a band together. We didn't fancy each other at all - in fact he had a girlfriend - but he went all funny whenever she came up in conversation, eventually confessing that his missus was extremely jealous and possessive, and that if she "knew about me", she'd kill him. I pointed out that since we're just friends, there was nothing for her to know about me. He still insisted that he'd only come over to his mum's to rehearse with me and we couldn't risk being seen in public. Totally dramatic and OTT. In the end, I persuaded him that lying to her would only make things worse. He relented, and introduced us, and sure enough, A did confront me over what I wanted with her man. I pointed out we didn't fancy each other and even if we did, neither of us would do anything about it because neither of us is a cheat or a relationship-wrecker. All we had in common was our shared musical interests. I explained about my childhood with mainly brothers and male friends, and asked her honestly, "If I was male, would you worry?" She admitted she wouldn't. I then advised her that was how she needed to think of me - like a bloke with tits. She found that funny, and we got on like a house on fire after that. After getting to know her better, I found she was a really nice person whose only fault was that she was rather insecure.

[Guest Anonymous]

I don't understand the Christian obsession with what other people think. Who the fuck cares? It's your relationship with God, not your roommates, not your pastors and not your parents. Can someone please explain?!

In the evangelical tradition the role of every Christian is to be a good witness to others so that they might come to have a personal relationship with God too.

I became a born-again Christian via an evangelical mission when I was a teenager and the whole guilt trip about 'not damaging your witness' pervaded so much of the teaching about what not to do and how not to live. It was usually coupled with teaching about 'not causing your brother to stumble" and of course, "not falling into sin" yourself.

It was a triple jeopardy thing: if you go out and engage in any worldly behaviour, eg going to a pub even if you are not drinking alcohol but where other people are drinking, if you go out to nightclubs, if you are seen to be spending time alone with a member of the opposite sex, you are likely to

(a) get arrested/get pregnant/catch an STD, and/or

(b) cause a weaker Christian to believe these things are OK and collude with them as they get arrested/get pregnant/catch an STD, and/or

© damage your witness and have the world think that Christians are no different from the rest of the world.....

It made for fun times.

When I occasionally talk to former church friends now and mention how I regret not spending my teenage years living life to the full and spending time with my non-Christian friends and family, the response I usually get is along the lines of, "Well, it could have been worse, at least you didn't get arrested/get pregnant/catch an STD...".

One former church leader said this with a serious, sympathetic face and no sense of irony at all that each of her Christian children went through some sort of emotional difficulty or reaction to the control over their lives that resulted for each of them in either an unwanted child out-of-wedlock, a brush with the law, an eating disorder or an early broken marriage. The stupid fear is pretty much burned into people who hang around in that kind of church too long,even when the evidence against the legalism is staring them in their faces... :?

[BravaAmica]

In the evangelical tradition the role of every Christian is to be a good witness to others so that they might come to have a personal relationship with God too.

I became a born-again Christian via an evangelical mission when I was a teenager and the whole guilt trip about 'not damaging your witness' pervaded so much of the teaching about what not to do and how not to live. It was usually coupled with teaching about 'not causing your brother to stumble" and of course, "not falling into sin" yourself.

It was a triple jeopardy thing: if you go out and engage in any worldly behaviour, eg going to a pub even if you are not drinking alcohol but where other people are drinking, if you go out to nightclubs, if you are seen to be spending time alone with a member of the opposite sex, you are likely to

(a) get arrested/get pregnant/catch an STD, and/or

(b) cause a weaker Christian to believe these things are OK and collude with them as they get arrested/get pregnant/catch an STD, and/or

© damage your witness and have the world think that Christians are no different from the rest of the world.....

It made for fun times.

When I occasionally talk to former church friends now and mention how I regret not spending my teenage years living life to the full and spending time with my non-Christian friends and family, the response I usually get is along the lines of, "Well, it could have been worse, at least you didn't get arrested/get pregnant/catch an STD...".

One former church leader said this with a serious, sympathetic face and no sense of irony at all that each of her Christian children went through some sort of emotional difficulty or reaction to the control over their lives that resulted for each of them in either an unwanted child out-of-wedlock, a brush with the law, an eating disorder or an early broken marriage. The stupid fear is pretty much burned into people who hang around in that kind of church too long,even when the evidence against the legalism is staring them in their faces... :?

Thank you for explaining. It appears that the emphasis in the evangelical movement is not on God but on what others think of you.

[mockingbird]

My best friend and I share a bed a lot too. We are both female. Growing up she had a day bed so we would share it when I slept over. When she had big sleepovers, we would all share her parents' king bed and they would bring some other mattresses in (orgies!?!). I loved it because sleeping on a mattress is always nicer than a sleeping bag! haha Last summer we were housesitting and staying in an attached apartment to the house, which had a full bed. The person we were housesitting for said we could sleep in the main house too but my friend asked me to stay and sleep with her (in the same bed!!11!) because she didn't want to be alone. We are not really cuddly people, but sharing the same bed has never been a big deal. Yeah, strangely, a) no sex, and b) we are both straight and it didn't make us lesbians.

[VooDooChild]

eg going to a pub even if you are not drinking alcohol but where other people are drinking,

The associate pastor at my old church was a former drinking, partying, biker gang member. Yet he had no qualms about still going out with his friends to a pub for dinner (minus the drinks for him, of course) because he 1) still enjoyed the company of his heathen friends, and 2) thought allowing his friends to see how Jesus had changed his life was a powerful, non-sanctimonious, non-preachy way of witnessing to them. And he manages to lead a "wholesome" life despite occasionally being in the presence of booze.

These fundies operate out of paranoia rather than common sense and self-control.

[crazyforkate]

My parents always let me have male friends sleep over, gay or straight, and never minded if we shared a room (starting from when I was thirteen or fourteen). I remained a virgin until I was twenty. They also let my friends who were couples stay overnight and share a bed or sleeping bag, and guess what? None of them ever had sex while they were over. There was just no temptation for whatever reason. In fact, most of my friends stayed virgins until they were out of high school. It has to do with a personal comfort zone more than anything, I think, but it was nice to be able to share a bed and be close even if sex wasn't part of the picture. You need to know your kids and trust them to the degree you think necessary - and a lot of the time, they will respect that trust.

AND my dad is an archbishop and my mom a total church lady. So suck it, fundies.

[Mela99]

Yes, it's completely shady for something to happen and him to be too tired to drive home. God forbid if he got sick. My boyfriend's grandma died the first night we spent together. He stayed because he was bereft. But I must be wrong - he engineered that massive stroke to get me alone.

Also - Amish teens dating routinely "bundle" - sleep in the same bed to stay warm.

[Maggie Mae]

What if you use a bundling board? Is that allowed?

I can think of plenty of non shady reasons that someone would be too tired to drive home. The first being that he is too tired to drive home. Wouldn't you rather he spent the night instead of endangering other people? There's also 'i've had too much to drink', but I suppose that is shady behavior. There are ice storms. People get stranded at other peoples homes all the time during ice/snow/rain storms. Sometimes it is best to just wait out the inclement weather. There could be (this is probably only happened to a few people) a moose that decided to block the driveway and finish his/her tree (it's been known to happen.) Things happen.

Ugh Fundies and their black/white thinking.

[Just_Jane]

When I was 21 I went to New Orleans for Mardi Gras with a whole group of my similar aged friends. We didn't have all that much money so we booked a hotel room with 2 queen sized beds, a small sofa, and we opted for a folding cot type bed. We didn't think it fair that only 4 people got the nice beds so we rotated. This meant you had to share the bed with someone. There were 3 guys and 3 girls so we were evenly split but none of us were dating each other.

[Slt]

What a load of crap.

If it is your goal to NOT have sex, and you can't possibly be in the same room or bed without "accidentally" engaging in such behavior, you're an idiot with absolutely no self control.

Coming from someone who used to be a very conservative Christian (now, still a Christian- just much, much less conservative!) engaged to her high school sweetheart at 19, we had MANY sex-less sleepovers. I spent the night over his dorm (in his tiny twin bed!) and he spent the night over at my parents (who were much less conservative than I was at the time and had no problem with the sleepovers) more times than I can count... (SHH don't tell his mom! We were pressured into pretending to "court" instead of date at the beginning because dating is so unholy). And there were NO shenanigans present until our wedding night.

I am really over the conservative Christian claim that if you are alone with a member of the opposite sex, the desire and lust for them will overcome you and you will have no other choice than to have sex with them (and when you do, you will either a) get pregnant or b) contract syphilis ;). Grow a pair and take control of your own damn decisions!

[Minerva]

The first time that I slept over with my husband when we were dating, we didn't have sex....it was the next night that we did! The first night? We laid in bed and talked until 4am, cuddled up next to each other. It was really nice.

My partner and I shared a bed for months before we had sex. Cuddling doesn't automatically lead to sexy times. It'd be weird if it did...

[2xx1xy1JD]

I guess I'll be the token voice that didn't find the posts to be completely absurd.

IF you are starting from the premise that you absolutely don't want to have sex before marriage, and if we are talking about a boyfriend and girlfriend who are obviously attracted to each other, then she's just arguing that (1) sleeping over could make it that much harder to resist temptation, and (2) even if nothing happens, others who see him sleeping in your room might assume that something is going on.

[Minerva]

I guess I'll be the token voice that didn't find the posts to be completely absurd.

IF you are starting from the premise that you absolutely don't want to have sex before marriage, and if we are talking about a boyfriend and girlfriend who are obviously attracted to each other, then she's just arguing that (1) sleeping over could make it that much harder to resist temptation, and (2) even if nothing happens, others who see him sleeping in your room might assume that something is going on.

I agree with all of the above, I just find it concerning how fundies think sex automatically happens if you let yourself get too close to someone. It could make you hornier than you would have otherwise been, but the author is listing off these things as if they absolutely will happen and exactly like she says them. I can just imagine some poor fundy girl reading it and thinking "Wait, we shared a bed and he didn't get a boner and I didn't feel tempted! Does this mean we're gay...?"