Mainstream Homeschool Blogger: Girls are happier as SAHM

[lilah]

She doesn't seem to be a fundie, she's a reform Jew. But talk about the patriarchy here

/homeschooling.penelopetrunk.com/2012/11/13/3-ways-to-rectify-the-miseducation-of-girls/

3 Ways to rectify the miseducation of girls

Posted in: Making adult life good November 13th, 2012 44 Comments

School is designed to help kids succeed in the workplace. The genesis of compulsory education was to create effective factory workers. Today, enlightened schools realize they are creating knowledge workers rather than factory workers. But here's the problem: most women don't want to work full-time. Which means it's overkill that school focuses so heavily on the workplace. What about home life? Why don't we educate girls for home life as well?

Maybe you are thinking, "What about the boys? Boys need to learn about home life, too." But here's the truth: men do not want to work part-time at nearly the rate women do when the kids arrive. Different genders make different choices. The choice is not about workplace discrimination, because today women earn more than men before there are kids in the picture. And it is not about social pressure, because there is definitely more social pressure to do well at work than to be a good homemaker. But still, most women scale back their career when they have kids and most men don't.

We should prepare girls for these life choices. Here are three ways to do that.

1. Validate the career goal of being a stay-at-home mom.

Twenty percent of girls have a Myers Briggs score that ensures they will feel most fulfilled staying home with their kids. But we don't raise girls to be stay-at-home moms. It's not politically correct. The problem is that these girls get out into the adult world, where they are expected to join corporate America, and nothing feels right. (The Myers Briggs types that are most suited to stay home with kids are ESFJ and ISFJ.)

2. Help girls cut through the propaganda about what lies ahead.

There is a lot of BS coming out of the corporate world about how great life is there for women. This is because so many women drop out of the workforce when they have kids that it's a competitive advantage for an organization to retain middle-aged women. So you see initiatives like Working Mother's "Best Law Firms for Women." But the truth is that all law firms are terrible for women to work for. Women opt for fewer hours and they end up working full-time and getting paid for part-time. And if you want to stay on partner track, it's impossible to raise children. This is just one example of many professions where the propaganda about women is not conveying the reality for women.

You can tell your daughter she can be anything, but reality will give her a different message. For example, in medical school, the most popular specialty for women in ophthalmology. This is because women are realizing that most medical specialties wreck havoc on family life. So why not prepare her for the real choices she'll face instead?

3. Recognize that women with high-powered careers are outliers.

Maybe your daughter is someone who will have a huge career. Maybe she will be one of those rare women who can put her career ahead of her kids. There are good examples of this—smart, capable, inspiring women who do not slow down their career when they have kids. (Sheryl Sandberg, or Marissa Mayer). However almost all these women are ENTJs, which comprise only about 2% of the female population.

That's my niece in the photo. I'm not sure what her Myers Briggs type is, but she's definitely not an ENTJ because their lives do not look like those of most women. They are more competitive, less emotional, and more driven by power than other women. These women also end up being best suited to marry men who will stay home with kids. It's probably not what you envision for your daughter—supporting a husband who cooks Thanksgiving dinner while your daughter is on a business trip. But that's what life is for an ENTJ.

My point here is that we make a lot of presumptions about life for girls that are not helping most girls. The biggest problem women face today is that they were raised to be high performers and they have no mindset for meeting that expectation other than succeeding in the workplace.

We need to redefine success in the workplace in a non-linear way. The lives of women are non-linear with fits and starts, moving in and out of caregiving roles—by choice. School in contrast, is a predictable, linear progression of learning and testing, which confuses most girls as they grow up to craft a non-linear life. Homeschooling life, though, can model a non-linear achievement path, and can prepare girls to be comfortable with the most likely scenario—which is choosing to scale back their path for a while so they can stay home with young kids.

When I prepare dinner with my niece, I want to model for her that cooking and caring is a worthy choice for a strong, smart woman, and that not everyone needs to earn money. But I've been brainwashed and I can't help feeling like a throwback to the 1950's when I do it.

I think we need to educate children of both sexes about things like cooking, cleaning, budgeting, yardwork because those are important life skills. But as we've said before I don't think it's realistic to think that you can expect a person to automatically be in a financial situation where they can stay home and have someone else support them financially.

[ILoveJellybeans]

What she doesnt see is that even if women stay at home and look after their kids, what are they going to do once their kids grow up, or if their husband doesnt have a good enough job to support them (or what if she turns out gay, its not like both of them can stay home), or if their husband dies or is unable to work.

Its always best to have a back up plan because you dont know what will happen in the future.

I think if I have a kid, I will be determined for them to have more options than I did in life, my mom always wanted me to be a stay at home mom like her and I wasnt prepared for anything else. Id expect any child of mine to either go to college after finishing school, or start looking for a job, even if they want to stay at home when they have kids (cause seriously, how do they manage to support adult kids who arent contributing anything with all those little kids), and even boys should be able to cook and clean as theyre basic life skills.

[Closed Womb]

Back the truck up, here.

Twenty percent of girls have a Myers Briggs score that ensures they will feel most fulfilled staying home with their kids.

Twenty percent? 20%? Girls need to learn the domestic skills when a full 80% of them (presumably) would be most fulfilled working (or at least not staying home with the kids.) How does this make sense? Why is it "overkill that school focuses so heavily on the workplace"?

[hapamama]

I'm a SAHM, but I'm one by choice. I have some college education and had a job (not a career though) before I had kids. I have every intention of going back to college to finish my degree once my youngest starts school full time (3 more years).

I have friends who tried the SAHM thing and were miserable. They love their kids, but some of them didn't like being completely dependent on their partners, and others needed their careers for their personal well-being. I totally respect that.

My mother worked because she had to. My MIL worked because she wanted to. My maternal grandmother was a SAHM until her youngest started school and then started a career. I want my daughter to have the choice to do what is best for her and her future family rather than to think that she needs to be a SAHM because it's what I did.

All of my children, male AND female, are expected to graduate from high school and at least try college or go to a vocational school. They're all being taught, regardless of their gender, to cook, clean, sew, do basic household repairs, have basic automotive maintenance skills and balance a budget. Even if they do eventually marry, they're being taught those life skills because I'm sure they're going to want to have some independence and not live with mommy and daddy until they find Mr./Ms. Right.

[AuntCloud]

Dang, I feel a bit shafted, here.

See, I'm working outside the house (and loving it) but no one told me I'm exempt from cooking, cleaning, eternal laundry, arranging our social life and buying cute little plaques with clever quotes for the walls. Seriously, I need a wife.

[JesusFightClub]

Oh nooooooo. Myers-Briggs isn't supposed to be *predictive*.

I'm an INTP. I test consistently as an INTP. It's not to do with what job you should take. There may be better jobs for you depending on personality type, or not. It should help you understand yourself, not tell you what to do.

:doh:

[Mela99]

I question several parts of this, but it strangely bothers me the most that she thinks you go to typical medical school for opthamology. You do go through four years of general medical study, but you actually do most of it through a opthamology school. It's tailored. Most people who decide to go into opthamology decide it beforehand and choose schools based on that concentration.*

That and I'm pretty sure the top choice for women is still pediatrics. I wonder where she's getting this information. Out of her butt would be my knee jerk reaction, but I'm pretty sure there are fundie based research "projects".

*my neighbor is an opthamologist. I asked :)

[JenniferJuniper]

Oh nooooooo. Myers-Briggs isn't supposed to be *predictive*.

I'm an INTP. I test consistently as an INTP. It's not to do with what job you should take. There may be better jobs for you depending on personality type, or not. It should help you understand yourself, not tell you what to do.

:doh:

Hey there; I've been professionally tested as an INTP several times. There aren't too many of us out there.

Few INTP's are ever going to take to things like sewing, religious ministry, or sales, and most of us figure that out very early in life. We probably wouldn't be INTP if we didn't.

But the notion that ESFJ girls are all going to want to be stay at home mothers is utter bullshit and a complete misunderstanding of what Myers Briggs is all about. My ESFJ sister hated being at home when her kids were young as soon as they were of school age she got her degree in nursing and now loves life as a nursing instructor.

These folks twist everything to fit their own objectives.

[JeanneD]

Isn't Penelope Trunk the one who tweeted her miscarriage and the media flipped the frick out? She blogs mostly about career choices I thought.

I think part of being pro choice is allowing people to make choices you may not agree with. Certainly there are some women who would love to choose to work in the home, and maybe there is a personality type associated with that. Does this mean women can't or shouldn't work outside the home? Certainly not.

[Lady_M]

Life so rarely works out the way we plan. There's death, divorce, and lay-offs to contend with. And...so many of these people say that the goal is to be a stay at home MOM. What about infertility or becoming unable to bear a child? Adoption can be a wonderful way to have a family, but it's not always easy to do either.

I firmly believe people should get enough training/college/education to be able to support themselves. No way around it.

But I also worry about the emotional realities some of these women will face. 1 in 8 couples have problems with infertility (according to resolve.org). It can be tough as hell to get a diagnosis that affects the ability to bear children when a person also has other things they feel valuable for or invest time in, but the pain of getting a diagnosis like that when being a mom is the only thing a person has invested their life towards must be incalculable.

[Sobeknofret]

I think part of being pro choice is allowing people to make choices you may not agree with. Certainly there are some women who would love to choose to work in the home, and maybe there is a personality type associated with that. Does this mean women can't or shouldn't work outside the home? Certainly not.

And I don't think that's what she's saying. She's saying that *some* women/girls will find fulfillment at home, and that generally we do women a disservice by saying *all* women/girls are assumed to want/need a high powered career. I read the piece as very much lamenting the fact that we've swung the pendulum the other way, and we judge women for wanting to be mothers and wives or scale back on their professional activities after motherhood and marriage.

I think there's some validity to the piece, despite the nonsense with the Myers-Briggs test. I'm a former professional woman with a PhD who quit actively looking for a career to stay home and homeschool. There's a lot of pressure on me to put my kid back in school and go hustle to find an academic job, preferably tenure-track, which requires a lot of time and effort. Frankly, I like being at home and I love homeschooling my son. However, the current culture focuses on what I can achieve in the workplace, and for the most part neglects to tell me that I can be happy and fulfilled at home. I'm certainly not saying that *all* women should stay home, and I don't think Trunk is either. There's always going to be a certain percentage of women who do prefer staying home, and their talents lie in that field. Trunk is saying that it's problematic that we can't recognize that and nurture that inclination and talent like we would for a young woman who tends toward a career like law or medicine.

[thekate]

I am ISFJ, the type "most suited to staying home." I do stay home with my kid, however, it's unintentional and it drives me crazy. Even though I'm introverted, I get lonely and really want to go to a job to have a steady source of adult interaction. I also hate housework, so there is a bare minimum of that going on. Keep the family fed and the house not filthy.

Even within the 16 personality types, there is a lot of variation, even if assuming her interpretation of the *SFJ personality is correct (which I don't).

[browngrl]

If some test predicts that 20% of girls would be happiest as stay at home mothers - great - let them be stay at home mothers - but also let the other 80% do what they want.

[Jinger Jar]

My Brother-in-law's best friend from college married a homeschooled woman who had been raised thinking she was to be a homemaker her entire life. He was a college graduate. She got married at 18. They had four or five children before she was 25. She was pregnant again when he died very suddenly of an aneurysm. Like, he literally slumped over at his desk one afternoon. They had no life insurance and had made zero "early/unexpected death" plans. After his death she lost their house and car. Her parents were of limited help because they had a passel of children still at home themselves. She ended up living with her children in an outbuilding on property owned by someone from her church and working all the hours she could at convenience stores and packing houses to keep her kids clothed and fed.

I wish every parent who's raising a girl child to solely be a SAHM could spend 10 minutes talking to this woman and listening - really listening - to her story.

[JenniferJuniper]

If some test predicts that 20% of girls would be happiest as stay at home mothers - great - let them be stay at home mothers - but also let the other 80% do what they want.

Myers Briggs tests aren't designed to predict any such thing.

The whole theory is bullshit.

[YPestis]

I question several parts of this, but it strangely bothers me the most that she thinks you go to typical medical school for opthamology. You do go through four years of general medical study, but you actually do most of it through a opthamology school. It's tailored. Most people who decide to go into opthamology decide it beforehand and choose schools based on that concentration.*

That and I'm pretty sure the top choice for women is still pediatrics. I wonder where she's getting this information. Out of her butt would be my knee jerk reaction, but I'm pretty sure there are fundie based research "projects".

*my neighbor is an opthamologist. I asked :)

Are you confusing ophthalmology with optometry? The former is an MD and the latter an OD. There is no "ophthalmology school" per se. All ophthalmologists go through 4 yrs of medical school than match into 1 yr intern + 4 yr ophthalmology residency. Optometry school is also 4 yrs program after college but residency is not required (correct me if I'm wrong on this). ODs are primary care eye docs and ophthalmologists are eye surgeons. I don't know of any medical school that are ophthalmology focused. Medical school curriculum is pretty uniform the first three years but most allow for electives in the 4th year.

I don't know where the OP's blogger post get the impression that the most popular female specialty in med school is ophthalmology since it is a surgical profession and still very male dominated profession. If we go by which medical specialty has the highest proportion of females...right now, the residency program that wins out OB-GYN. Again, a surgical profession but one that guys tend to avoid these days. Peds comes in second but I know plenty of males who are interested in kids (ok, that sounded kind of pervy).

As for the other aspect of the OP's post. I don't like her attitude that hard charging career women will just have to marry a SAHD as if that's just a sad inevitability. Why is it bad that the dad is home cooking and cleaning? Sounds to me like the OP is too focused on gender stereotypes.

I also disagree that we should focus on teaching girls homemaking skills, as if that's that most kids can't get at home. I don't need to attend a cooking class to cook. I eat every day and my parents cook daily so it's easy to pick it up at home. I have chores to do on a weekly basis to keep the house clean. Again, no need to get that from a textbook. Furthermore, all of that I can learn living by myself. It doesn't take years of training to know how to get mildew out of the bathroom or to load a dishwasher.

I also don't like her insinuation that women are worthless workers while men love to work! work! work! I bet you that this next generation of young men are also prone to work/family balance. Everyone is more conscious of the need for family time. Just as everyone is conscious of the need for financial security. Does this blogger suggest that we push boys into certain careers that they can afford to provide on a single income? Steer those boys away from art classes because they may end up as starving artists! Make sure your young men avoid tutoring because they may want to be teachers! Those are not jobs that will support their women and they may end up as SAHD!!!! :doh:

Sorry, I hate people who gender stereotype like that. Feminism is about choice and not just for women to stay home. It's also about men who want to stay home and women who want to work. More importantly, it's about couples who can decide on what is financially best for the family. Why should the guy support a family on a poverty level salary? Why should the girl feel stifled at home? Traditional gender roles exist because society was different back then. Now, it's just outdated.

[JenniferJuniper]

My Brother-in-law's best friend from college married a homeschooled woman who had been raised thinking she was to be a homemaker her entire life. He was a college graduate. She got married at 18. They had four or five children before she was 25. She was pregnant again when he died very suddenly of an aneurysm. Like, he literally slumped over at his desk one afternoon. They had no life insurance and had made zero "early/unexpected death" plans. After his death she lost their house and car. Her parents were of limited help because they had a passel of children still at home themselves. She ended up living with her children in an outbuilding on property owned by someone from her church and working all the hours she could at convenience stores and packing houses to keep her kids clothed and fed.

I wish every parent who's raising a girl child to solely be a SAHM could spend 10 minutes talking to this woman and listening - really listening - to her story.

I have a sort of opposite story which addresses the issue of men fathering children they are ill-prepared to parent alone.

An old work friend of mine died last year of breast cancer at 44. 18 months before she died, she had given birth to triplets. She had two older girls, but her husband (who I've always found to be a sexist creep) wanted a son. I don't know all the details, but apparently she had to go the fertility treatment route, which is how they ended up with triplets.

She left behind a 11 year old girl, an 8 year old girl, two baby girls and a baby boy. And a 49 year old workaholic husband who has no clue how to cope with them all. His parents are dead and he doesn't get along very well with hers. And my heart breaks for these poor children who are farmed out to babysitters days and nights.

Whether you’re a man or a woman, before deciding to have children, I think each person needs to be prepared to individually provide both financially and emotionally for those kids. Best laid plans and all that.

[Olive Plant]

In a perfect world, everyone would be able to do whatever their personality directed them towards. Since this isn't a perfect world, and nothing we can do will make it that way, girls shouldn't just assume (and should NEVER be taught) they'll never need anything but homemaking skills. Where the eff is this woman getting her "only ENTJs are career women" crap? I am not an ENTJ and my personality is NOT suited AT ALL to be a full-time stay-at-home mom.

Also, I don't get where people are coming up with the crap that pro-female-education people are anti being a SAHM. If that's what you want to do, that's awesome. I've just seen too many SAHMs who are miserable because they don't feel fulfilled intellectually/artistically, or because (shocker) their husband up and did something that made it apparent they could no longer remain SAHMs, and they had no education with which to support their children. Be a SAHM! Just get some education, anything.

[Sydney Fox]

Hey there; I've been professionally tested as an INTP several times. There aren't too many of us out there.

Few INTP's are ever going to take to things like sewing, religious ministry, or sales, and most of us figure that out very early in life. We probably wouldn't be INTP if we didn't.

But the notion that ESFJ girls are all going to want to be stay at home mothers is utter bullshit and a complete misunderstanding of what Myers Briggs is all about. My ESFJ sister hated being at home when her kids were young as soon as they were of school age she got her degree in nursing and now loves life as a nursing instructor.

These folks twist everything to fit their own objectives.

Another INTP here. I'm a SAHM who homeschools and likes to sew, so go figure. I was one of those people who wasn't sure I even wanted kids, and was definitely career oriented. I married young (I was 22) and worked until I was 30, when I decided I really wanted children, and I wanted to be the one to raise them. I had #1 at age 31, decided to homeschool her, struggled with secondary infertility, and had #2 at age 39 and #3 at 42. I haven't worked outside the home since having #1, and have had few regrets about the choices I have made.

I love being at home and educating my children, but I'm preparing all my children (2 girls and a boy) for careers outside the home. That way, they will be able to decide for themselves what they want to do, like I did, and won't be in a bind if their marriage fails, a spouse dies, or they decide to remain single. I think it is ridiculous to raise children to be only SAHMs, since the reality is that most of us will have to work outside the home at some point in our lives. I'd rather my kids get educated or trained to do something that pays, rather than have them resorting to minimum wage work in an emergency. If they want to stay home after establishing a career, that's fine with me, but if I can help it, they will be prepared for work and home as well.

[NotALoserLikeYou]

Some women love being a SAHM (I did, and I'm still home most of the time) and some women love working and having careers. Everyone should be able to choose what they want to do without the other side looking down on them, however if you choose to be a SAHM without an educational or career background, you ARE vulnerable in the event of death/divorce/job loss, etc. We have all seen it happen and I have lived it. So I would hope my girls pursue college/career first. I think I would be crippling them if I steered them only toward homemaking like these fundies do.

[JenniferJuniper]

Another INTP here. I'm a SAHM who homeschools and likes to sew, so go figure. I was one of those people who wasn't sure I even wanted kids, and was definitely career oriented.

Interesting. I don't think I've ever come across an INTP who likes to sew. It's just so.....precise. I got kicked out of sewing class in the 7th grade. Only D I ever got in school. Not that I would have liked woodworking any better.

I've always had a career. But it's more out of a compulsion to be fully independent than anything else. Any routine is very tough for me, and I don't like managing people or pointless office small talk. Faking it is a bit draining. As for kids, I wanted to have my own place since I was 4 (my parents were a distraction who were constantly nagging me to do normal childhood things like running and playing and having nice, normal ESFJ friends) so it was a tough decision for me also. But they're fun - even if only one of them is an intuitive - and I'm not the one who does the much of the discipline.

[Terrie]

I'm another INTP. Happily single, never want kids and share my life with fuzzy creatures. I love my job and would hate to be a SAH-anything.

[Anxious Girl]

TL,DR translation: Traditional gender roles make everyone happy! If we let people outside of the "specific sphere", then there will be chaos! This is why people are miserable nowadays: because conservatives are upset that people are stepping out of their tradditional gender roles and decide what they want to do with their life, not what they have to do which makes us conservatives lose influence and power!!! Aren't you all afraid of change? Conservatives want to suppress change in order to keep their power make those around them feel less uncomtorable! Aren't you listening, guys? Guys?

That's all I got from her "insightful" post. :lol:

[Sydney Fox]

Interesting. I don't think I've ever come across an INTP who likes to sew. It's just so.....precise. I got kicked out of sewing class in the 7th grade. Only D I ever got in school. Not that I would have liked woodworking any better.

I've always had a career. But it's more out of a compulsion to be fully independent than anything else. Any routine is very tough for me, and I don't like managing people or pointless office small talk. Faking it is a bit draining. As for kids, I wanted to have my own place since I was 4 (my parents were a distraction who were constantly nagging me to do normal childhood things like running and playing and having nice, normal ESFJ friends) so it was a tough decision for me also. But they're fun - even if only one of them is an intuitive - and I'm not the one who does the much of the discipline.

I'm precise to a fault, and have tested INTP twice. Being independent is one of the reasons I like being home. I don't like being bossed around at all, and like you, hate the office chit chat. I really don't like kids either, but mine are different than most, plus they're mine, so I enjoy spending time with them. I think I'd go crazy if I had to deal with other people's kids all the time.

BTW, I'm much more in control in my marriage than most would assume. Mr. Fox, my husband, is the mouthpiece, but I'm the one working the controls in the background. I crunch the numbers and handle the details, then tell him what to say and do. I don't think I'd be as happy at home if it wasn't for him being okay with my financial compulsions. Otherwise, I would have to work, just to stay sane, because I'm terrified of letting someone else have control of my money.

[sugaree]

Ugh, Penelope Trunk. She does think the Myer-Briggs is a predictive, or maybe even an instruction manual from the universe on exactly how to live your life. Trunk is always looking for magic formulas and Holy Grails and precise instructions on how to succeed. Anyone else remember her "Blueprint for a Woman's Life"? http://blog.penelopetrunk.com/2011/08/16/blueprint-for-a-womans-life/ Get plastic surgery, be married by 28, homeschool or your children will suffer terribly. Oh, and she assumed all women were heterosexual, wanted to get married, and wanted to have kids. I can only imagine how miserable the women of the world would be if anyone really were listening to this woman. Fortunately, most people seem to tune in for the same reason I do, the trainwreck watching.