Standard FJ definition of "fundie"?

[2xx1xy1JD]

I've noticed this comes up periodically.

Is there any one definition of "fundie" that we can agree upon, for FJ purposes?

I would generally tend to say that being religious is about focusing on what you do, while being fundie is about controlling what other people do.

Any other definitions?

[mkitten]

I would tend to agree with the above, and add that anyone that can look you in the face and say that you are going to hell for not agreeing with their particular brand of religion, qualifies as fundy to me.

[Minerva]

I agree that we needed this thread. I'd like to know, for people who use the term "fundy-lite", where the line between that and full-on fundy is? Do you consider fundy-lites to be a type of fundy? Do any of you see a line between fundy-lite and "Conservative Christian"? Can you take the Bible literally and not be fundy (or fundy-lite)?

I've been describing my Born-Again acquaintances as fundy-lite, but sometimes it sounds like they're not extreme enough to even qualify as fundy-lite.

[JesusFightClub]

I've noticed this comes up periodically.

Is there any one definition of "fundie" that we can agree upon, for FJ purposes?

I would generally tend to say that being religious is about focusing on what you do, while being fundie is about controlling what other people do.

Any other definitions?

I agree with this totally. Being fundie isn't about who you are, but what you're up to.

You can have very strong religious beliefs, but how you act on them is the thing.

[valsa]

I first learned the term "fundie" on FSTDT and personally use it. Their definition is:

A usually religious person or entity characterized by one or more of the following: an extreme lack of rationality, fondness of logical fallacies, repeated use of emotional appeals, rigid adherence to Bronze Age mythology, endorsement of pseudoscientific nonsense, opposition to the First Amendment, bigotry and discriminatory attitudes towards minority groups, belief that certain children's media is the work of Satan, and propensity to post Bible verses instead of valid argument.

It should be noted that one can be religious--even a fundamentalist--but not actually attain the vaunted status of "fundie," which needs that special touch only people fitting stereotypical caricatures can provide. Additionally, religion is technically not even a pre-requisite for this, although blind adherence to its ideologies (and those of politics) is perhaps the #1 source of fundies in the universe. Rigid, arrogant, "know-it-all-and-confidently-force-it-on-everyone-else" authoritarian strains of both amplify the propensity to fundyism, while more moderate, "this-seems-like-a-good-idea-but-might-be-wrong, so-let's-not-be-total-jackasses-about-it" varieties can keep it in check or even undermine it.

I like this definition because it encompasses non-religious fundies as well. You can be a fundie with regard to, say, misogyny and not necessarily be religious (we had a thread recently about misogyny and atheists that attests to that)

[Guest Anonymous]

I agree that we needed this thread. I'd like to know, for people who use the term "fundy-lite", where the line between that and full-on fundy is? Do you consider fundy-lites to be a type of fundy? Do any of you see a line between fundy-lite and "Conservative Christian"? Can you take the Bible literally and not be fundy (or fundy-lite)?

I've been describing my Born-Again acquaintances as fundy-lite, but sometimes it sounds like they're not extreme enough to even qualify as fundy-lite.

Personally I describe my upbringing as fundie-lite or fundie-medium.

To me, fundie-lites have all or most of the same beliefs as the full on fundies, but in a mainstream looking package. For example: We were supposed to dress modestly, but it was okay to wear pants. I wasn't allowed to cut my hair short, but I could have a part-time job. The church we attended taught all of the basic fundie curriculum: gay people are sinning, abortion is murder, men should be the head of the household. But if you looked at the congregation you wouldn't see very many frumpers. I tend to think the fundie-lites are more insidious than the full ons, because they can present a very charming exterior.

They also had tables in the vestibule from time to time where people peddled Dobson and Pearl child training manuals.

I think taking the Bible literally is fundie territory, but I've never met anyone who did so that didn't also want to impose their beliefs on others.

[lilah]

Fundie usually are people who advocate for most if not all of the following:

• Their religion is the best, all others mean you are going to hell

• parsing out really nitpicky things about their religion (like Christians and hair-covering or which bible is the best)

• homeschooling to protect the children's from evil public school

• stay at home mothers and daughters

• having lots of babies (if not being quiverfull)

• beating your kids because they’re such blessings in the name of discipline

• being debt free and no government help even if you're subsisting on tube meat and skirt-cheese

• Being smug about how holy you are and looking down on secular people, or people in other religions

• Making your husband/father a minor deity in the name of the patriarchy

[jaynie]

I agree that we needed this thread. I'd like to know, for people who use the term "fundy-lite", where the line between that and full-on fundy is? Do you consider fundy-lites to be a type of fundy? Do any of you see a line between fundy-lite and "Conservative Christian"? Can you take the Bible literally and not be fundy (or fundy-lite)?

I've been describing my Born-Again acquaintances as fundy-lite, but sometimes it sounds like they're not extreme enough to even qualify as fundy-lite.

For me it's a spectrum. The Maxwells are probably at the most extreme end (surprise surprise). They're as obsessively religious, legalistic, judgemental, and controlling as you can get. I'd call someone a fundie-lite if they had a lot of fundie beliefs (anti-gay, complementarian, uber-pro-life, etc) but were maybe more relaxed about certain things. Like maybe a family that believed girls were created to be "helpmeets" but allowed their daughters to study whatever they wanted to in university, or a family that was skirts-only/home-church/no-secular-media but sent their kids to a real school. Conservative christians I think of as being very religious and generally intolerant, but otherwise "normal" -- their kids go to school, can watch a fair amount of television (though some things are likely to be off limits), can hang out with non-Christian kids, and, can generally form their own opinions about things as they grow without risking losing parental affection.

[mrs]

Fundies or fundamental Christians are isolationist. They believe they are the 'chosen' few saved by God. Conservative Christians are evangelical and focus on spreading the word of God. (Conservative Christians are what I equate with fundie-lite.)

My auto correct has a interesting definition of fundies, it seems to think it means, "fun dies." Which I tend to agree with... :D

[freejoytoo]

I know a girl who is fundie lite, in my opinion, though leaning dangerously close to fundie. She wears jeans, can have her hair however she wants it, went to university and has a job but also is incredibly socially conservative and vowed to obey her husband in her marital vows :?

[ILoveJellybeans]

I would say that to be fundie, you must have the most extreme beliefs of your religion, such as believing that God literally made the universe in a week, 6000 years ago and everyone is decended from Adam and Eve, but most regular Christians recognise that some of the stories in the Bible may be metaphors, and not intended to be presented as fact. They also need to be pro-life, homophobic, against using birth control, and think everything that is not Christian is evil and everyone else is going to hell. They have strict gender roles, especially against women, who should stay at home in the kitchen and have babies and obey their headship. They also keep themselves away from other people who do not believe what they do, by homeschooling their kids and being very selective of what TV shows, movies and songs they are allowed to listen to. They believe in courtship instead of dating, and couples are not allowed to be alone together until marriage, and their kids stay at home until they are married and dont go to college. Theyre generally big on spanking their children instead of other forms of discipline, and are generally extreme about it in a way that would be considered abusive. Theyre also usually into big families (to the point where it seems to be very rare to see a blog about big families and not see God mentioned in every post). Theyre generally very egocentric about religion-they think God has the time to guide their every move, giving them every idea theyve ever had and doing everything for them.

I would say that fundie-lites generally have the fundie mindset, but not as extreme and generally blend in better with normal people in regards to looks (they may be modest, but women can wear pants and their clothes look more modern), and seem to have more fun and normal seeming lives-but under all the nice stuff, theres still the same hateful beliefs.

Conservative Christians may have some fundie beliefs, but not enough to even be fundie-lite, they appear to be like normal people, their kids to go school, they can watch most TV shows and movies we can, dress like normal people, date and are usually less about the "everyone is going to hell" mindset.

I would say that the Maxwells are a category all in their own, even fundies arent fundie enough for them.

[mirele]

I'm not the person to ask about this, because I would limit "fundie" to Independent Fundamental Baptists. My own preference would be to keep "fundie" for the IFBers and then use "conservative Protestant," "evangelical Protestant," "charismatic Protestant," "Pentecostal," "Apostolic Pentecostal," "pre-Vatican II Catholic wannabe," "FLDS" etc.

However, mainstream Lutheran scholar Martin E. Marty edited a big series on Fundamentalism (The Fundamentalism Project: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Fundamentalism_Project), and the series was spread across all religious beliefs, so I will accept that Fundamentalism can take in more than just IFBers.

[desertvixen]

To me, fundie-lites have all or most of the same beliefs as the full on fundies, but in a mainstream looking package.

This. The biggest trigger for me would be how much they push controlling others.

I agree also that the fundie-lites are more likely to suck people in, and the more hardcore fundie things get transmitted down into what people would consider mainstream Christianity.

[valsa]

This. The biggest trigger for me would be how much they push controlling others.

I agree also that the fundie-lites are more likely to suck people in, and the more hardcore fundie things get transmitted down into what people would consider mainstream Christianity.

This is why I don't believe in "fundie lite". The "lite" implies that these people are somehow less dangerous or damaging, but the fact that they have a pretty appearance and are more likely to suck people in just makes them more dangerous.

[notthecrochunter]

In order from craziest to crazy:

Extremist: Blanket-training, frumper wearing, headcovering, gay and all-other-religions hating nut jobs. e.g. Maxwells :evil:

Fundy: Some of the above but with a fake niceness. Still hold to the same ideals though... e.g. Duggars ;)

Fundy Lite: Hold to some of the same values but appear more worldly. Girls in pants, kids in organized sports, church youth groups, watch tv and movies, listen to EBIL music, even boyfriend-girlfriend relationships (must stay "pure" though! :roll:). There's a LOT of these in Texas! Some are actually good people and keep their beliefs to themselves.

[Minerva]

Does the church-church vs. home-church decision factor into anyone's definitions?

[ILoveJellybeans]

Home church is definitely a fundie thing, as it implies they think even other Christians are not good enough for them.

[Miggy]

I first learned the term "fundie" on FSTDT and personally use it. Their definition is:

I like this definition because it encompasses non-religious fundies as well. You can be a fundie with regard to, say, misogyny and not necessarily be religious (we had a thread recently about misogyny and atheists that attests to that)

I really like this definition. :clap:

We use another term at home: "Happy Christian". Very rarely if ever found in fundyland. Happy Christians mostly attend evangelical churches. They use church as a drug. They start off attending once a week, usually Sunday morning but slowly add in more meetings; Sunday night, Wednesday bible study, Friday Youth, etc. as they become more addicted and need more of a hit to stay high. They make comments like "I need to go to church on Sunday to get me in the right state of mind for the rest of the week." Church involves a lot of rock music, a lot of jumping, dancing and screaming but sermons are usually pretty light-weight and leave you feeling really good about life. Religion infiltrates every area of life. They will vote for a Christian politician over a non-Christian even if all the policies of the Christian clash with their own opinions and needs. They either home school or Christian school to avoid the evils of the public system but also the competitiveness of the independant schools. The kids play sport but never in serious competitions. Tv, movies and internet allowed but restricted. Dress is modest but not extreme. All children are expected to attend bible college for at least twelve months before going to uni.

Happy Christians are not a threat to the community at large as they are not trying to change the entire country to their beliefs. I do think they are people to be careful of as it is the beginning of a journey that could very easily lead people into fundamentalism. The term "Happy Christian" comes from the fact they all have idiotic grins on their faces after a church meeting - just like a drug addict who has just had a hit.

[Curly Girl]

Home church is definitely a fundie thing, as it implies they think even other Christians are not good enough for them.

I agree.

[Curly Girl]

Fundies or fundamental Christians are isolationist. They believe they are the 'chosen' few saved by God. Conservative Christians are evangelical and focus on spreading the word of God. (Conservative Christians are what I equate with fundie-lite.)

My auto correct has a interesting definition of fundies, it seems to think it means, "fun dies." Which I tend to agree with... :D

I agree with this distinction between fundie and fundie lite.

[Guest Anonymous]

I agree with this distinction between fundie and fundie lite.

I disagree with the bolded. Lots of people/groups that I consider extremely fundie are all about the proselytizing. Even the Maxwells try to convert servers at restaurants. The Duggars are all kinds of fundie and they go on mission trips, and they probably think their show is an opportunity/mechanism to share their faith.

[keeperrox]

I disagree with the bolded. Lots of people/groups that I consider extremely fundie are all about the proselytizing. Even the Maxwells try to convert servers at restaurants. The Duggars are all kinds of fundie and they go on mission trips, and they probably think their show is an opportunity/mechanism to share their faith.

Yeah, I think it's more of a "Fundies believe that only those people who practice their brand of Christianity are saved by God," type thing. That's why so many of them try to convert people.

They also have a legalistic view of everything, not just the teachings of the bible.

[Curly Girl]

Yeah, I think it's more of a "Fundies believe that only those people who practice their brand of Christianity are saved by God," type thing. That's why so many of them try to convert people.

They also have a legalistic view of everything, not just the teachings of the bible.

To me, fundies can't see that it is possible to agree to disagree (ie: my way or the highway), while many fundie lites can go to church together, etc. and disagree on certain issues. Admittedly, the distinction is more of a continuum than a clear line.

I think we can all agree that the Maxwells are about as fundie as one can get. :)

[desertvixen]

This is why I don't believe in "fundie lite". The "lite" implies that these people are somehow less dangerous or damaging, but the fact that they have a pretty appearance and are more likely to suck people in just makes them more dangerous.

I agree that maybe "lite" is not the best word to add on, but at the same time, I think "fundie" can be over-used .

I would say a fundie-lite (or maybe fundie-minor?) is more likely to surprise you one day out of the blue with something whacked (like revealing that they aren't letting their daughter date or maybe ensuring that she "dates with a purpose"). With the fundie, you're going to know they're out there.

They are definitely more dangerous, however.

[tropaka]

Religious fundyism also inevitably includes Patriarchy - male domination of the family, religion, daughters' honour/purity and life choices.