Standard FJ definition of "fundie"?

[AddieBelle]

I feel like there is a huge spectrum of fundieness. With the Muncks on the fundie lite end and Zsu/ Maxwells on the full on crazy fundie end.

[valsa]

I would say a fundie-lite (or maybe fundie-minor?) is more likely to surprise you one day out of the blue with something whacked (like revealing that they aren't letting their daughter date or maybe ensuring that she "dates with a purpose"). With the fundie, you're going to know they're out there.

In place of "fundie lite", I purpose "stealth fundie", or possibly "ninja fundie".

[desertvixen]

In place of "fundie lite", I purpose "stealth fundie", or possibly "ninja fundie".

I feel as if it has been laid upon my heart to use "stealth fundie". (Ninjas are way cooler than fundies, and I would say a damned sight more useful.)

[Gil]

I propose "fundie" and "fundie extremist." I have reasons but my brain doesn't want to articulate them...basically, I think it should be emphasized that these people are extremists -- I hear the term "Islamic extremist" plenty, but not "Christian extremist," despite the fact that both fundies and Islamic extremists have pretty similar values.

jmo. I'm a big fan of stealth fundie, too.

[thoughtful]

In place of "fundie lite", I purpose "stealth fundie", or possibly "ninja fundie".

Or "Fundie in sheep's clothing."

[Kitty]

To me, being a fundie of any sort means perpetuating abuse and oppression. The VF and ATI fundies we snark on meet that definition. It doesn't really have to be about a particular religion or even misogyny, but also about classism, racism, weightism, ageism, etc. Any harmful ideology that turns its less 'moderate' followers into raving control freaks. I've met Christians who do consider themselves fundamentalist, but definitely do not live up to either FJ or FSTDT's definition of fundie... Not even close. They were fairly reasonable, as well, and fundies... Aren't. I've been in so many online discussions about this, can you tell?

Fundie-lite means to still believe in those toxic ideologies, but to a lesser extent, which if course affects how they practice those beliefs. Evangelicals are fundie lite, because they still buy into the xenophobia and misogyny of fundamentalists, but not to the same extent. Women can not only wear pants, but also even go to college without the challenge to find a husband before graduation. Girls are not taught to JUST be homemakers, though there's still that expectation to give up their careers for marriage and family. Of course they are still sexist. And homophobic. A great many are quite racist, though would adamantly deny it. Basically, they buy into deeper cultural biases, but not so much that they cannot possibly be considered mainstream.

[freejoytoo]

I really like this definition. :clap:

We use another term at home: "Happy Christian". Very rarely if ever found in fundyland. Happy Christians mostly attend evangelical churches. They use church as a drug. They start off attending once a week, usually Sunday morning but slowly add in more meetings; Sunday night, Wednesday bible study, Friday Youth, etc. as they become more addicted and need more of a hit to stay high. They make comments like "I need to go to church on Sunday to get me in the right state of mind for the rest of the week." Church involves a lot of rock music, a lot of jumping, dancing and screaming but sermons are usually pretty light-weight and leave you feeling really good about life. Religion infiltrates every area of life. They will vote for a Christian politician over a non-Christian even if all the policies of the Christian clash with their own opinions and needs. They either home school or Christian school to avoid the evils of the public system but also the competitiveness of the independant schools. The kids play sport but never in serious competitions. Tv, movies and internet allowed but restricted. Dress is modest but not extreme. All children are expected to attend bible college for at least twelve months before going to uni.

Happy Christians are not a threat to the community at large as they are not trying to change the entire country to their beliefs. I do think they are people to be careful of as it is the beginning of a journey that could very easily lead people into fundamentalism. The term "Happy Christian" comes from the fact they all have idiotic grins on their faces after a church meeting - just like a drug addict who has just had a hit.

We call them Happy Clappies! I went to a few of their services when I was about 12 or 13 and then I suddenly realised they were talking crap and left. I am SO glad I did.

[itsnikki05]

Fundies or fundamental Christians are isolationist. They believe they are the 'chosen' few saved by God. Conservative Christians are evangelical and focus on spreading the word of God. (Conservative Christians are what I equate with fundie-lite.)

My auto correct has a interesting definition of fundies, it seems to think it means, "fun dies." Which I tend to agree with... :D

That's my definition of it. :) I'm fairly conservative, and Christian... fundy lite? I don't know. I don't THINK of myself as fundy anything, but maybe the whole "I am Christian and conservative" thing... lol

[2xx1xy1JD]

Ok, these responses are generating more questions for me.

Many of the answers were Christian-based. Do you include non-Christian groups in the definition, and if so, how do your answers change?

If the definition is "a person who thinks that you are going to hell" - well, doesn't a huge chunk of the Christian world believe that there is no salvation without faith? As a Jew, I basically grew up just assuming that a whole lot of people would say that I was going to hell.

Valsa - I'd agree with your definition if we replace "Bible verses" with "quotes from Revered Text or Leader". I think that could cover everything from the Quran to Das Kapital.

Oh, and I'll add another criteria: the idea of blasphemy. Extreme hostility to questioning of the basic doctrine/Revered Texts/leader.

[2xx1xy1JD]

To me, being a fundie of any sort means perpetuating abuse and oppression. The VF and ATI fundies we snark on meet that definition. It doesn't really have to be about a particular religion or even misogyny, but also about classism, racism, weightism, ageism, etc. Any harmful ideology that turns its less 'moderate' followers into raving control freaks. I've met Christians who do consider themselves fundamentalist, but definitely do not live up to either FJ or FSTDT's definition of fundie... Not even close. They were fairly reasonable, as well, and fundies... Aren't. I've been in so many online discussions about this, can you tell?

Fundie-lite means to still believe in those toxic ideologies, but to a lesser extent, which if course affects how they practice those beliefs. Evangelicals are fundie lite, because they still buy into the xenophobia and misogyny of fundamentalists, but not to the same extent. Women can not only wear pants, but also even go to college without the challenge to find a husband before graduation. Girls are not taught to JUST be homemakers, though there's still that expectation to give up their careers for marriage and family. Of course they are still sexist. And homophobic. A great many are quite racist, though would adamantly deny it. Basically, they buy into deeper cultural biases, but not so much that they cannot possibly be considered mainstream.

What about non-white and/or ethnic evangelicals? [Almost all of the evangelicals that I know in real life fall into this category - Filippino, Black, Korean or Chinese.]

[valsa]

Valsa - I'd agree with your definition if we replace "Bible verses" with "quotes from Revered Text or Leader". I think that could cover everything from the Quran to Das Kapital.

Oh, and I'll add another criteria: the idea of blasphemy. Extreme hostility to questioning of the basic doctrine/Revered Texts/leader.

I'd agree with both of these.

[Brittany15]

In order from craziest to crazy:

Extremist: Blanket-training, frumper wearing, headcovering, gay and all-other-religions hating nut jobs. e.g. Maxwells :evil:

Fundy: Some of the above but with a fake niceness. Still hold to the same ideals though... e.g. Duggars ;)

Fundy Lite: Hold to some of the same values but appear more worldly. Girls in pants, kids in organized sports, church youth groups, watch tv and movies, listen to EBIL music, even boyfriend-girlfriend relationships (must stay "pure" though! :roll:). There's a LOT of these in Texas! Some are actually good people and keep their beliefs to themselves.

A little off topic but I never really found anything wrong with blanket training. Isn't it just teaching small children to play in a small area with toys for a small amount of time (like ten minutes)? I do not mind being proved wrong on this one but I just think that any mother of small children would love ten minutes of quiet.

[2xx1xy1JD]

A little off topic but I never really found anything wrong with blanket training. Isn't it just teaching small children to play in a small area with toys for a small amount of time (like ten minutes)? I do not mind being proved wrong on this one but I just think that any mother of small children would love ten minutes of quiet.

If you hit a baby with plumbing line every line they crawl off of the blanket, it's a problem.

Normal babies naturally explore. How do you get a baby to stay within a confined area? If you use a playpen or safety yard or other means of physically confining the child (within reason, for short periods of time), that's fine. I would question, though, how you get a pre-verbal child to reliably stay on a blanket without doing anything evil.

Here's one description of it from a mother who uses it:

www.ffministry.org/blanket_training.htm

[devilsadvocate]

I'm not the person to ask about this, because I would limit "fundie" to Independent Fundamental Baptists. My own preference would be to keep "fundie" for the IFBers and then use "conservative Protestant," "evangelical Protestant," "charismatic Protestant," "Pentecostal," "Apostolic Pentecostal," "pre-Vatican II Catholic wannabe," "FLDS" etc.

I agree with you. I think your approach is far more accurate than when I see people referring to groups that are NOT fundamentalist such as conservative pre-Vatican II Catholics as "fundies". Not everyone with conservative and/or restrictive religious views is a fundamentalist.

[valsa]

A little off topic but I never really found anything wrong with blanket training. Isn't it just teaching small children to play in a small area with toys for a small amount of time (like ten minutes)? I do not mind being proved wrong on this one but I just think that any mother of small children would love ten minutes of quiet.

It's using physical pain to enforce developmentally inappropriate expectations.

Blanket training is no different than spanking a 3 year old for wetting the bed.

[Coconut Flan]

Living in the south, I saw blanket training that did not use anything physical and was not oppressive. It is possible, but the Pearls and company do not advocate a gentle and reasonable approach.

[ilovetchotchkes]

Living in the south, I saw blanket training that did not use anything physical and was not oppressive. It is possible, but the Pearls and company do not advocate a gentle and reasonable approach.

How? like a ton of positive reinforcement? like when the baby wanders off of it, putting the baby back on and saying "no no"? Leaving a ton of toys on the blanket? :doh:

Maybe its because my son was a wild man and probably would have been killed by the fundies because he's so spirited and stubborn (and I thank G-d every day for it, I'd hate a boring child!) that I can't see how it'd work.

I much prefer the "baby jail" method. Get one of these: http://www.onestepahead.com/catalog/pro ... paign=none

and baby proof everything inside.

[Brittany15]

If you hit a baby with plumbing line every line they crawl off of the blanket, it's a problem.

Normal babies naturally explore. How do you get a baby to stay within a confined area? If you use a playpen or safety yard or other means of physically confining the child (within reason, for short periods of time), that's fine. I would question, though, how you get a pre-verbal child to reliably stay on a blanket without doing anything evil.

Here's one description of it from a mother who uses it:

http://www.ffministry.org/blanket_training.htm

Okay I take that back. I have only heard of people using blanket training that does not require any hitting or physical punishment.

[mrs]

Dr. John A. Dick gives a good lecture on the evolution of "fundamentalism."-> vimeo.com/22390745

He says the term "fundamentalist" was first used in the 1920's to describe a person who defended the "fundamentals of Christianity." The "fundamentalist movement" was formed as a reaction to shifting social norms, modernization, and the industrial revolution which conflicted with their literal interpretation of the bible.

Leading up to WWII, fundamentalist defined themselves as the true Christians, and clearly separated themselves from modernism/liberals (non literal Bible believers).

Post WWI, fundamentalist split into two groups:

Fundamentalist = “true Bible-believing – Christianityâ€

Evangelicals = “true Christianityâ€

Post WWI, fundamentalist split into two groups:

Fundamentalist = “true Bible-believing – Christianityâ€

Evangelicals = “true Christianityâ€

In the 70’s and 80’s “American fundamentalist became nationally prominent as offering an answer for what many regarded as a major social, economic, moral and religious crisis in America.†(Which is why I believe many of the fundies we discuss here, fell into the movement. Especially considering the recession in the 80’s and treats of war with communist Russia. Additionally, the birth of the 24 hour news cycle of doom and gloom begins in 1980). Fundies during this time fought “secular secularism(public schools, erosion of universities, government and most importantly families.†Dr. Dick goes on to say that fundamentalist “fought any lessening of the absolute literal and in (missing word)authority of the bible."

He then list ‘s the common features of fundamentalism:

-“fundamentalism is fundamentally flawed because it takes one element of the truth and proclaims it as the whole truthâ€

-high priority, conformity and obedience to doctrine, often leads to sacrificing love, tolerance, caring, etc

-will participate in social/political process to force their values on others

Fundamentalism appeals to people b/c:

-“For people who feel unimportant or insignificant, fundamentalism says you are important because you are God’s ‘special messenger.’â€

-For people who are fearful…you can’t be saved without us…join and be saved.â€

Fundamentalism:

-“…make {one} feel good about himself...It is self stroking.â€

-“…justifies hatred of one group of people for another…God hates those who do not conform,†to their view of the world.

-“…appeals to people burdened by guilt and shame because it exempts the from responsibility for situations or actions that cause guilt and shame.â€

-Is an excuse from self examination, “it justifies their prejudices, zealotry, intolerance and hatefulness.â€

That concludes my summary of the history of fundamentalism. The lecture is very interesting. The lecturer is a bit dry but he lays out the evolution in a very understandable manner.

[Convicted Blossom]

This quote is an example of fundie-ism as I see it, where "believers" can't leave others alone, their beliefs are paramount and any other belief is a sin of the ungodly secular world /an unenlightened person.

It is discouraging to reflect on the ways our lost family members perceive our faith. It can also be disappointing to recall our failures at representing Christ in a faithless environment. Even so, our extended family remains a ripe mission field and we desire to shine Christ at every opportunity.

* Bolding is mine

Guest post at thankful-homemaker.blogspot.com.au/2012/11/the-white-sheep-in-family.html

[2xx1xy1JD]

So, are these essential parts of the definition:

1. Taking a highly literal reading of the Revered Text, and being highly intolerant of other interpretations or questioning. Heresy and blasphemy are seen as Very Bad Things.

2. Being part of a movement that is a reaction to growing secularism

3. Seeing the world outside your fundie bubble as a being in complete spiritual darkness

4. Seeing problems as coming from spiritual faults of others, and a solution coming only from people embracing the True Faith and following the Revered Text.

5. Taking an active role in not just improving one's own religious observance, but in telling others what they are doing wrong and trying to get them to change. Some degree of activism or even militancy is justified, since it is part of the ultimate struggle of good vs. evil.

I can see this being a separate phenomenon from groups that, traditionally, were always religious.

[Austin]

Personally I describe my upbringing as fundie-lite or fundie-medium.

To me, fundie-lites have all or most of the same beliefs as the full on fundies, but in a mainstream looking package. For example: We were supposed to dress modestly, but it was okay to wear pants. I wasn't allowed to cut my hair short, but I could have a part-time job. The church we attended taught all of the basic fundie curriculum: gay people are sinning, abortion is murder, men should be the head of the household. But if you looked at the congregation you wouldn't see very many frumpers. I tend to think the fundie-lites are more insidious than the full ons, because they can present a very charming exterior.

They also had tables in the vestibule from time to time where people peddled Dobson and Pearl child training manuals.

I think taking the Bible literally is fundie territory, but I've never met anyone who did so that didn't also want to impose their beliefs on others.

Much of this is my experience, too, Lissar. We could wear pants, shorts, one-piece swimsuits, swim with boys, wear makeup, cut our hair, go to movies but not dances. Women worked and externally, everybody looked typical and blended in with the rest of mainstream society fine. You had to dig down pretty deep to find misogyny and patriarchy, so I was largely unaware of it growing up. My pastor was very reluctant to get into the whole women and submission thing, but if he was pinned down, he would say that that man should be the head of the household. He married my husband and me and was upset with me with I refused to promise to obey in our marriage vows, but agreed to let it slide as long as my husband-to-be didn't mind (he didn't - lol).

So that's why I describe my upbringing as fundie-lite. The "fundie" acknowledges misogyny and patriarchy. The "lite" just means that we pretty much looked and acted like mainstream society. I realize that some think that fundie is fundie is fundie, and I don't really care to quibble, but I will name my experience however I see fit as I'm the one who lived it.