Do fundies believe in ghosts? Do you?

[lilwriter85]

On the topic of fundies and believing in ghosts. I think some of the fundie lite types believe in ghosts. Someone here on a FJ put up a link for Clancy Cauble's (daughter of Lisa Whelchel) blog and there was one entry about her being on a missionary trip and thinking that there were spirits in the house she was staying in.

[Boogalou]

I don't think its the same. We have known members who are psychics here. I personally have probably given 200 readings to FJer's. Saying something rude about our members jobs is not the same as snarking on fundies.

I don't care if people believe in ghosts or not, but I do find it offensive when people act like my job is not real. I feel the same about all the homeschooling posts because I do not want to be lumped in with the sucky ones.

I am sure if I told you your job was stupid and acted like it was a joke I would assume you would't love that.

I guess what I was thinking of was when people refer to God as a magical sky wizard and things like that and they very rarely (if ever) get called out on it. I see the two things as incredibly similar, neither can be proven scientifically.

We snark on pastors too, and their job is all about God and the Bible. Although I am an atheist (or at least agnostic, depending on the day), I don't think any religious leader's job is somehow not real because we don't share the same beliefs.

[Deleted10]

I know they don't believe in Halloween but, ghostly spirity stuff? Do you?

I stayed a weekend in a 'haunted house' once. Didn't see anything but shat myself all weekend.

I've never seen a ghost but I believe in them 100%. Oh and Clibby is legit.

[Maude]

I'm open to the idea of the paranormal, and tend to come down on the side of believing. I've had enough odd experiences that I can't just be dismissive. I like the idea of energy imprints that are left when we die.

I have a friend whose mother and sister go ghost-hunting on occasion, and I love hearing their stories. I also like to watch shows like Paranormal Witness, Fact or Faked: Paranormal Files and Creepy Canada. I'd love to be able to save up and take a cross-Canada trip one day, visiting all of the supposedly haunted locations.

[GeoBQn]

I apparently saw my great-grandmother as a ghost when I was about 4. She died before I was born, and I was named after her. I was with my grandmother in the side-yard of the home she had lived in for 40 years. I saw her sitting in a lawn chair, and asked if she wanted to pick crabapples with me. She replied, "No, I'm too tired." When my parents picked me up, I told them that I saw my great-grandmother and they asked me a ton of questions. They called my grandmother when we got home, and she said that nobody else had been in the yard with us. Looking back, I find it interesting that my parents never said, "You couldn't have seen that" or "It's just your imagination." They really did believe me. I later learned that there were a lot of "freaky" things that happened on that side of the family, like people having prophetic dreams. My great-great-grandmother (the mother of the ghost) was a folk healer who "drove the sick spirits" out of people with a ritual using melted wax.

[mkitten]

You do realize where you are, right?

Ummm...completely not the same as snarking on the fundies. Fundies are harming women and children through physical violence and mental abuse and trying to shove their reliigious beliefs down the collective throats of the nation. I don't see folks on FJ who believe in the paranormal or are mediums trying to usurp individual rights or shove their beliefs down http://www.facebook.com/events/374786825937001/anyone's throat, or beating children...etc.

[bluelady]

I would think that the hardcore fundies don't, they probably think that anything that doesn't fit into their neat little world view is of the devil. For myself (I'm agnostic) I think that ghosts probably do exist, and that science will eventually find evidence. Just because there is no current hard proof doesn't mean that there never will be.

This. I was with a few colleagues (we're teachers), talking about a friend of mine who is a medium. One of my colleagues was very shocked that I believed my friend could communicate with those who had passed. She said to me "You believe that? But you're a SCIENTIST!" To which I replied that I didn't think that science should be so arrogant as to believe that they have already discovered

and/or explained everything there was to discover or explain. That until there is sufficient proof against the existence of ghosts, spirits or mediums, I'll keep a healthy, skeptical, open mind and give my friend the benefit of the doubt.

[Alecto]

I'm a skeptic, which means I don't believe that we have any proof of psychics or the paranormal. Personally, I would LOVE to see proof of both. I think the world would be a far richer and more interesting place. There has been extensive research into both, and zero evidence has been produced to support either.

I recognize that others have had experiences and I respect that they should be allowed their own interpretation of events. However, I do find it interesting that this is a bit of a "sacred cow" here. There are lots of psychics and ghost hunters who are scamming folks into believing that they can solve their problems. Most known psychics use what is called "cold reading" where they give answers that are so vague, they could apply easily to anyone. I know the technique well - I actually trained with a former radio "psychic" so I could pretend myself on the air to show folks how it can be easily done.

[Boogalou]

Ummm...completely not the same as snarking on the fundies. Fundies are harming women and children through physical violence and mental abuse and trying to shove their reliigious beliefs down the collective throats of the nation. I don't see folks on FJ who believe in the paranormal or are mediums trying to usurp individual rights or shove their beliefs down http://www.facebook.com/events/374786825937001/anyone's throat, or beating children...etc.

We don't just snark on fundies over their forcing their religion on others. We snark on them for all manner of things, including worshipping a magical sky wizard and basing all their beliefs on a book of myths written by bronze age herders and translated multiple times by people with clear agendas. Do you think when I say that it is disrespectful and close minded? If so, at least you're not a hypocrite, I guess. Is there a difference between fundamentalist Christians and people who believe in ghosts? Yes, absolutely. But at the end of the day both are making claims that something with no scientific evidence to support it is true. I interpreted the original quote to mean that there is no reason to believe, because there is no evidence to support that belief. There is the same amount of evidence to support a belief in God, ghosts, and magical drunken pixies.

If you believe in God and have had personal experiences to that effect, that's great for you. If you believe in ghosts and have had personal experiences to that effect, then again, that's great for you. But the latter doesn't have some sort of special right over the former to not be called what it is, belief with no scientific proof.

[emmiedahl]

I personally believe in ghosts and reincarnation because I have had experiences that cannot be explained any other way.

But if a person has *not* had those experiences, of course they will not believe in it.

Religion and faith and ghosties are all alike in that there is no scientific proof. Your belief or lack thereof is based on your experiences. There is nothing wrong with either way of thinking. I absolutely acknowledge that my faith and my belief in the paranormal are based on my own personal experience. As soon as I start treating that as valid (going from the scientific definition of valid--that is, able to be generalized to a population) then please smack me or something.

[emmiedahl]

This is really quite disrespectful to those of us who do believe in them, or at least have an open mind to the idea.

If you don't believe in something, that's fine, but don't mock people who do.

Maybe you have the luxury of keeping a closed mind because you've never experienced something, that is not the case for all of us. I've experienced it all my life and come from a family of people who can see / sense spirits.

But in her defense, I would only believe in the magical drunken pixies if I saw them, and I would not expect people who have not personally seen them to take my word for it. If I saw a magical drunken pixie, then I would believe it for the same reason that I believe in ghosts.

Some people have no experience with the paranormal and because there is no scientific proof to offer to sway them, I respect their reasoning.

[Alecto]

Electric Gin Bottle sounds like a kickass name for a rock-a-billy band.

[mkitten]

We don't just snark on fundies over their forcing their religion on others. We snark on them for all manner of things, including worshipping a magical sky wizard and basing all their beliefs on a book of myths written by bronze age herders and translated multiple times by people with clear agendas. Do you think when I say that it is disrespectful and close minded? If so, at least you're not a hypocrite, I guess. Is there a difference between fundamentalist Christians and people who believe in ghosts? Yes, absolutely. But at the end of the day both are making claims that something with no scientific evidence to support it is true. I interpreted the original quote to mean that there is no reason to believe, because there is no evidence to support that belief. There is the same amount of evidence to support a belief in God, ghosts, and magical drunken pixies.

If you believe in God and have had personal experiences to that effect, that's great for you. If you believe in ghosts and have had personal experiences to that effect, then again, that's great for you. But the latter doesn't have some sort of special right over the former to not be called what it is, belief with no scientific proof.

I agree that there is no scientific evidence to believe in ghosts, or any god. (I'm agnostic with no personal paranormal experience.) However, there are people that I know and trust that have had experience with the paranormal. I do think that the original quote was disrespectful and closed-minded, in my opinion. Part of what makes the folks who believe in ghosts different from those who believe in the bronze age herders' myths (kudos for that phrase, I love it!) is that they come from their own experience, and not from thousands of years ago from some guy with an agenda.

[2xx1xy1JD]

I haven't had any personal experiences, but have heard a couple of stories from otherwise-normal people that I can't simply dismiss. It's not scientific proof, and I wouldn't say that I believe in ghosts, but I would say that I don't 100% disbelieve that any spirit phenomena exist.

I find it interesting that some cultures seem to accept these beliefs as normal, and people will often talk about their encounters. It seems to be common in Filippino culture, and one story that I heard (a nanny in my old neighborhood hearing a toddler even though there was only a newborn in the home, and subsequently discovering that the family had a 2 yr old child who drowned) freaked me out, because it was so close to home.

[rock_girl]

This is really quite disrespectful to those of us who do believe in them, or at least have an open mind to the idea.

If you don't believe in something, that's fine, but don't mock people who do.

Maybe you have the luxury of keeping a closed mind because you've never experienced something, that is not the case for all of us. I've experienced it all my life and come from a family of people who can see / sense spirits.

Um... yeah. I've grown up in old terraces that were reported to be haunted by this or that spirit who died tragically. Knowing the area's history their tragic death probably did involve a gin bottle. No supernatural experiences for me. What can I say? I feel a draught and think "bloody hell, now I'm going to have to hunt around for that hole and plug it before bugs get in", not "oh no, a ghost!!!". When I was 17 we moved to an old workman's cottage and began renovating it. When the house moved or creaked I didn't wonder about ghosts, I just cursed silently on realising that the creak probably meant more trouble with the foundation and more drama from my cheap father over spiralling reno costs.

I live alone and have done for the past decade. I often lose things that I'll swear up and down were left in a particular place. Ghosts? Nope, I take medication that messes a little with my memory. You'd be surprised how many times my wallet's been found in the medicine cabinet. This past week I found a beautiful necklace inherited from my great-great-great grandmother tucked away with some old winter coats I'd been planning to donate. No memory of putting it there at all. Not ghosts, I'm afraid, just narcotics.

My original statement was basically pointing out that if you're going to believe in ghosts, why not believe in other unseen, unproven creatures? Just because ghosts are socially acceptable in some circles doesn't mean the magical drunken pixies should be left out of the fun.

I'm a skeptic, which means I don't believe that we have any proof of psychics or the paranormal. Personally, I would LOVE to see proof of both. I think the world would be a far richer and more interesting place. There has been extensive research into both, and zero evidence has been produced to support either.

I recognize that others have had experiences and I respect that they should be allowed their own interpretation of events. However, I do find it interesting that this is a bit of a "sacred cow" here. There are lots of psychics and ghost hunters who are scamming folks into believing that they can solve their problems. Most known psychics use what is called "cold reading" where they give answers that are so vague, they could apply easily to anyone. I know the technique well - I actually trained with a former radio "psychic" so I could pretend myself on the air to show folks how it can be easily done.

Pretty much this. I have no problem with anyone proving the existence of supernatural beings. The world is an amazing place to me without gods and ghosts, but should they be proven real? Awesome. A new layer of neat stuff for the planet.

I have to say that psychics do bother me. Like fundies they take money from people who don't know any better. I'm not ok with exploiting others for financial gain, especially as psychics and tarot readers tend to advertise in magazines aimed at lower income earners. To me it seems cruel to take a large percentage of someone's income to tell them something anyone with a few hours' training in cold reading could tell them for free.

[smores]

I believe in the paranormal. I also believe I love mocking Zak Bagans for how melodramatic he is. Believe whatever you like. :)

[slh12280]

No reason to believe in ghosts. May as well believe in magical drunken pixies zooming around the world on electric gin bottles.

This. But I believe in God, so I get flack for that sometimes.

*after reading I find that maybe my beliefs are not so weird after all.

[slh12280]

I'm a Methodist and I do not believe in ghosts. The way I see it, when I die I will either go to heaven or hell. My spirit does not stay on earth.

This is what I was trying to get at. Thanks.

[Buggaboo]

Yes, actually I do know where I am. I know that people have a right to be snarky, and I have a right to be snarky back.

I do understand that this is a place to snark on fundies. However, I also think that when you keep a narrow mind, you are not so far from fundie land yourself.

I believe the things I believe because they have happened to me. I have told people things, specific things, that came true and there was no way I could have known them. I'm sorry you haven't had any out of the ordinary experiences in your life, but that's really not my problem. I'm sorry that science hasn't yet proven certain paranormal aspects to your liking, maybe they will someday and maybe they won't. I believe in science, but I also believe in wonder and keeping an open mind toward the unknown.

Also, thank you for basically calling me a thief, but for your information I do not normally accept money unless it is an on line reading and then they run 3 to 5 bucks and I don't let anyone come back more than twice a year. It's called integrity.

The bottom line is, I don't really care what you think. I'm fairly secure in my beliefs, and you seem quite secure in yours.....it doesn't take a psychic to see that it's a no win situation.

[Buggaboo]

But in her defense, I would only believe in the magical drunken pixies if I saw them, and I would not expect people who have not personally seen them to take my word for it. If I saw a magical drunken pixie, then I would believe it for the same reason that I believe in ghosts.

Some people have no experience with the paranormal and because there is no scientific proof to offer to sway them, I respect their reasoning.

I respect that reasoning too, and if it was put in a well thought out response such as that I'd have been fine. But it wasn't.

[linnea27]

I believe that we understand very little about our world and universe and that we are discovering new things all the time. Interpret that as you will.

[rock_girl]

Yes, actually I do know where I am. I know that people have a right to be snarky, and I have a right to be snarky back.

I do understand that this is a place to snark on fundies. However, I also think that when you keep a narrow mind, you are not so far from fundie land yourself.

I believe the things I believe because they have happened to me. I have told people things, specific things, that came true and there was no way I could have known them. I'm sorry you haven't had any out of the ordinary experiences in your life, but that's really not my problem. I'm sorry that science hasn't yet proven certain paranormal aspects to your liking, maybe they will someday and maybe they won't. I believe in science, but I also believe in wonder and keeping an open mind toward the unknown.

Also, thank you for basically calling me a thief, but for your information I do not normally accept money unless it is an on line reading and then they run 3 to 5 bucks and I don't let anyone come back more than twice a year. It's called integrity.

The bottom line is, I don't really care what you think. I'm fairly secure in my beliefs, and you seem quite secure in yours.....it doesn't take a psychic to see that it's a no win situation.

A narrow mind? Are you serious? I am open to whatever can be proved. I know I've mentioned more than once on here my love for the Greek pantheon; believe me, if there was proof of the Greek gods existing I'd be in like flynn with my sacrifices. No goat would be safe.

Do feel free to go and claim James Randi's million bucks. I will happily eat humble pie when your claims are proven.

[slh12280]

This is really quite disrespectful to those of us who do believe in them, or at least have an open mind to the idea.

If you don't believe in something, that's fine, but don't mock people who do.

Maybe you have the luxury of keeping a closed mind because you've never experienced something, that is not the case for all of us. I've experienced it all my life and come from a family of people who can see / sense spirits.

Couldn't you just turn this around and say that atheists are closed minded? Because if a religious person believes in something then it is closed minded to science or reason, according to some. But yet to others to not believe is closed minded to supernatural things. Maybe I am just seeing two sides to the same coin here, fundamentalism and hardcore atheism.

I don't doubt the veracity of people's experiences, but at the same time experiences don't demonstrate absolute proof. I agree that people should try to be respectful of others beliefs, in so far as those beliefs don't hurt others but expressing what you think shouldn't curtailed either.

[clibbyjo]

Yes, actually I do know where I am. I know that people have a right to be snarky, and I have a right to be snarky back.

I do understand that this is a place to snark on fundies. However, I also think that when you keep a narrow mind, you are not so far from fundie land yourself.

I believe the things I believe because they have happened to me. I have told people things, specific things, that came true and there was no way I could have known them. I'm sorry you haven't had any out of the ordinary experiences in your life, but that's really not my problem. I'm sorry that science hasn't yet proven certain paranormal aspects to your liking, maybe they will someday and maybe they won't. I believe in science, but I also believe in wonder and keeping an open mind toward the unknown.

Also, thank you for basically calling me a thief, but for your information I do not normally accept money unless it is an on line reading and then they run 3 to 5 bucks and I don't let anyone come back more than twice a year. It's called integrity.

The bottom line is, I don't really care what you think. I'm fairly secure in my beliefs, and you seem quite secure in yours.....it doesn't take a psychic to see that it's a no win situation.

100% what she said.

Not to mention, I have given at least 200 readings on FJ for FREE. If I am going to a reading party and working for 5 straight hours, I expect to be paid, just like you would if you worked for 5 hours.

[Boogalou]

I agree that there is no scientific evidence to believe in ghosts, or any god. (I'm agnostic with no personal paranormal experience.) However, there are people that I know and trust that have had experience with the paranormal. I do think that the original quote was disrespectful and closed-minded, in my opinion. Part of what makes the folks who believe in ghosts different from those who believe in the bronze age herders' myths (kudos for that phrase, I love it!) is that they come from their own experience, and not from thousands of years ago from some guy with an agenda.

I think a lot of people who do believe in God and Christianity do so because of personal experience as well. People say they feel God's love, God laid it on their heart (I know we snark on that, but some people really do believe that), were touched by the holy spirit, Jesus was speaking to them, etc. There are people I know and trust who have had personal experiences with the paranormal and with God (not necessarily the same people, but some are the same). I just really, really don't see the two as completely different, I see them as pretty much the same thing.

ETA: and by "the two" I mean a belief in the paranormal and a belief in God, not a belief in a fundie god and world view.