Question about "Marxists" and "socialists"

[Guest Anonymous]

I'm just surprised that anyone even takes it seriously. It might as well just ask "Are you libertarian or do you love Hitler?" or "Do you love or hate freedom?" It's really has some of the most leading questions I have ever seen in a questionnaire.

I think the cool thing about it is that it accounts for social and economic views on a graph, instead of using a linear left to right model. I consider myself a liberal socialist and that's where I ended up on the graph, so it did present an accurate picture of my own views. My significant other is a liberal capitalist and that's where he ended up on the graph. It may not work for everyone, I can't speak to that.

I'd be interested to know which questions you felt were awfully leading. (No snark.) I found the social justice questions at least to be pretty straightforward. You either think a woman has a right to an abortion, and gay people have the right to adopt, or you don't. And they give you a range of options.

I meant to present it in a manner of, "I think this is neat, I like the concept" and not "this determines whether or not you are a good person, and is 100% accurate." I do maintain that what a lot of people think of as being socialism does not line up with the reality of the philosophy. (Socialism does not equal fascism.) But at the end of the day, as Austin said, it is just a quiz on the internet.

[Brainsample]

I've taken this a few times in the past. I find it interesting that, as I get older, my "dot" keeps moving down and to the left. I guess I really am become more "liberal" with age. :o

Raine, I'm right in your neighborhood, but over to the right just a wee bit more. Not surprised at all, either.

[Patsy]

I hope you guys realize that that libertarian graph is essentially propaganda to convince naive college students that they are Libertarian. The questions are so ridiculously skewed that it's basically impossible to be anything other than libertarian without casting yourself as pure evil.

I was surprised mine was so libertarian, actually (matching most of those shared here, fyi)

[Alecto]

I honestly think "Libertarian" and the "Libertarian Party" are about as different as a duck and a cow. The Libertarians haven't been Libertarian in a LONG time.

[Guest Anonymous]

I honestly think "Libertarian" and the "Libertarian Party" are about as different as a duck and a cow. The Libertarians haven't been Libertarian in a LONG time.

Absolutely. The graph is using libertarian as the opposite of authoritarian - nothing to do with the U.S. political party at all. (Since they tend to not be very libertarian when it comes to people that aren't straight white dudes.)

[FaustianSlip]

I am also a denizen of Granola Country down there to the left. Anyone care for a delicious, if elitist, latte?

[Wolfie]

Absolutely. The graph is using libertarian as the opposite of authoritarian - nothing to do with the U.S. political party at all. (Since they tend to not be very libertarian when it comes to people that aren't straight white dudes.)

Straight White CHRISTIAN dudes...

[Wolfie]

I'm also a resident of the lower left quadrant, right in the middle this time. The older I get, the more liberal I get.

(I also have noticed that the more extreme the Republicans get, the more I rebel. And at the state fair, the Republican booth was full of things that put down the Democrats. The Democrat booth, their things were more supporting their ideas.)

[Wolfie]

I was surprised mine was so libertarian, actually (matching most of those shared here, fyi)

I think that most Americans are libertarians. (as others have said, as in the philosophy, NOT as in the political party.)

If you think about it, none of us really like our government telling us what to do.

[Brainsample]

Here's a much shorter quiz.

theadvocates.org/quiz

I'm not the biggest libertarian around, but I do listen to CATO!

Here's my score, if anyone's morbidly curious. (the old links don't work anymore and too tired to fix them)

http://undermuchgrace.blogspot.com/2007 ... urces.html

[Eclipse]

I'm a member of the lower left quadrant as well but what would you expect from someone from, as Fox News like to call it, Canuckistan.

[Alecto]

Straight White CHRISTIAN dudes...

Straight, White, Christian and Affluent Dudes... some of whom support legalization of pot.

[emmiedahl]

I didn't take the quiz, but I guess I am a libertarian/green party moderate who believes that certain industries should be socialized to prevent victimization of the poor. Like, I don't want the government telling *me* what to do, but hell yeah they should be telling the corporations what to do! And they should be taxing the hell out of them.

Our income taxes are skewed so that the poor/lower middle class and the very wealthy pay nothing, and I think one of those groups shouldn't be getting off so easily. If that makes me a socialist (shrug).

I don't think capitalism is inherently bad if everyone has a fair chance. So we should level the playing field with socialized health care, better socialized education and a vast safety net with no holes to fall through.

I actually have been called a Marxist, Communist, etc, and I am so far from those things ideologically that I wonder what everyone else was doing in poly sci.

[Patsy]

I don't want the government telling *me* what to do, but hell yeah they should be telling the corporations what to do! And they should be taxing the hell out of them.

This really resonates with me. I often wonder, with people supporting right-ish parties that are allll for big corporations (as opposed to mostly :roll:), where their "small government" "nanny state" stuff ends. Does the fact that they're an international corporation, not a single-nation government, make it okay for them to control your life and get away with murder?

[emmiedahl]

I don't think it is just the right. The left in the US is just as sold-out. I wish it were as easy as 'check this box' but it isn't.

[Patsy]

Also should have said that being for a more right party doesn't necessarily mean you're there for the small government stuff.

As far as I can see I think both Australia's major parties and both America's major parties are sold-out, but to differing degrees. Things like the KBR rapes in Iraq make me think the Republicans are probably that bit worse.

[emmiedahl]

But the KBR rapes were not ordered by a Republican and the situation was handled within the military, I mean I don't blame the Afghanistan kill squads on Obama.

You have Al Gore coming from a Big Tobacco background and not selling his shares until outcry demanded it, the Kennedy's owning oil companies that are technically run in some island nation to avoid taxes even though they receive American subsidies and sell to the US exclusively, federal witnesses dying in Clinton years, Obama handing economic recovery dollars over to Big Business in unprecedented numbers, appointing Monsanto executives as the FDA chief of food safety, etc. I know the Republicans are just as bad... that's my point. They are both evil and it's hard to decide who is more evil because they are just that bad.

It won't get any better without a revolution imo. We are ruled by the wealthy elite and they have no intention of giving up that position. The senators ARE Big Business, Big Pharma, Big Oil, Big Tobacco. They are not going to hurt themselves or take away their own power.

[Patsy]

I meant their response to it, not the fact that it happened. Obviously I don't have a huge amount of knowledge in the area, and I am aware that there's fucked-up stuff on both sides (like I said) (and in different areas as well), but the fact that SO MANY Republican representatives made protecting the corporation such a HUGE priority just made me go 'here's a new level of evil' at the time. It's affected my perception of the parties.

[emmiedahl]

But the same basic thing happening with the Kill Squads under Obama doesn't bother you as much? Maybe there is something I don't know about these issues... to be honest I usually turn the news off at the first story that pisses me off and that takes like twelve seconds. :)

[Deleted12]

Back on topic, I find it interesting that most of the people we snark on talk out of two sides of their mouths on this: they believe that they are rugged individuals out of one side while advocating stoning people to death out of the other side.

I also find it interesting that they preach the hellfire part of the Bible while totally decrying the social justice side.

(Oops, didn't mean for this to sound like I was shutting down a productive discussion. Carry on.)

[Wolfie]

Straight, White, Christian and Affluent Dudes... some of whom support legalization of pot.

Nah, I've seen some not so affluent. But the pot thing, yeah, some of them.

(generally they THINK that they have money, but many are like my neighbor who is loosing his home because his art isn't selling and he hasn't found a different job. Of course it's all somebody else's fault and he's going to win his court battle. :violin: Why spend all your money on court fees for a house you can't even afford to maintain?)

[Patsy]

But the same basic thing happening with the Kill Squads under Obama doesn't bother you as much?

The Democrats supported cover-ups and fiddly loop-holes to legally allow these crimes against civilians, and openly stood, basically AS a party, and said "This is more important than human lives and human rights, we believe in big corporations so much that we will stand here and fight for their right to hurt people with no gain"? I'm aware that Obama has condoned and ordered things like out-of-country torture, dragged the chain on Guantanamo, etc., but I see it as another "war is fucked" and "ugh everything is gross" thing. What are the areas where the stories match up? Again, I don't hear every story.

I imagine if there was some objective way to measure different moral screw-ups, it wouldn't come out matching my impressions, I'm just saying that for me, a whole bunch of Republicans basically standing as a party and saying "we don't care about those women, won't somebody PLEASE think of the corporation?" really had an impression on me. Not the toadying to money - everyone does that - not the power of big corporations - I have a very cynical view on that - just openly standing as a party and saying "morally, we need to support rich people getting richer over the hideous loop-holes that allow these abuses to go unaddressed". Very blatant.