Question about "Marxists" and "socialists"

[Deleted12]

Why are so many people on the right--this asshole in Norway, the Tea Party, GBot--so obsessed with Marxists and socialists?

Why is being a socialist tantamount to sympathizing with Stalin?

And how do these people reconcile the teachings of Jesus with their anti-socialist paranoia?

TIA.

[debrand]

Some people think that socialism would lead to communism. Its silly, I know but that is what they believe.

[JesusFightClub]

Why are so many people on the right--this asshole in Norway, the Tea Party, GBot--so obsessed with Marxists and socialists?

Why is being a socialist tantamount to sympathizing with Stalin?

And how do these people reconcile the teachings of Jesus with their anti-socialist paranoia?

TIA.

Hello all (and Athena especially!)

I am a Marxist (a Trotskyist). I will answer all questions like this to the best of my ability. My computer keeps falling over so it may happen in stages :(

[Guest Anonymous]

They are intellectually lazy and won't bother to learn the most minor issues in political and social science. Its easier for them to accept dogma from an organizational talking head and take it as truth. Many religions help reinforce that conditioning.

[Dinorah]

As a European, I never understood the demonization of socialism by American conservatives, considering that we have socialist parties that are very mainstream and not even considered that far to the left. I don't consider myself a Marxist, but I know people who do and think very negatively of the Soviet Union, the general idea amongst Marxist seems to be that Marxism wasn't applied properly in that context or they consider it a problem that an ideology that made sense produced such disastrous results.

So, contrary to right-wing scaremongering, being Marxist or communism generally doesn't entail thinking the likes of Stalin and Castro were great men or that the Soviet Union was a worker's paradise.

Oh, and the idea that Obama is a Marxist has always baffled me.I barely consider him to be centre-left.

[bea]

My personal feeling? A lot of these people are using buzzwords. They don't understand that the terms "Marxist" and "Socialist" have actual, you know, definitions. I have a friend - a Socialist - who is continually told that X, Y, and Z politicians are "Socialists," and gets blanks stares when he tries to explain that HE is a Socialist and these politicians are NOT.

I once had a person try to defend their political position by saying that someone in Obama's administration listed Mao Tse Tung as one of the most influential writers she'd ever read. Therefore, apparently, he is a Socialist AND a Marxist AND everyone in his administration is secretly plotting to turn the US into some kind of undemocratic Satan's playground.

It's hard to talk politics with crazy people.

[O Latin]

My personal feeling? A lot of these people are using buzzwords. They don't understand that the terms "Marxist" and "Socialist" have actual, you know, definitions. I have a friend - a Socialist - who is continually told that X, Y, and Z politicians are "Socialists," and gets blanks stares when he tries to explain that HE is a Socialist and these politicians are NOT.

This. Also, when my mom and I have talked about this, her theory is that people who grew up during the Cold War had it pounded into their head their whole lives that communism and socialism were bad. She thinks, and I agree, that people of my generation will be more willing to accept socialism.

[linnea27]

happylittlehomemaker.org/2011/07/conflict-of-values.html

The argument (see comments section in response to her post) seems to be "it's ebil because I say it is."

[GoJiRa]

Neither socialism nor marxism fits the American way of life and politics.

[Guest Anonymous]

I agree with the posters who said that most of the people who use "socialism" as the boogeyman don't actually have the slightest idea of what it is.

I got a link to this the other day and I thought it was very interesting, this seems like a good place to share it.

http://www.politicalcompass.org/test

If you take the test it will plot your social and economic views on a graph. I think a lot of people (not Free Jingerites, who tend to be quite politically aware) would be surprised to find out just how socialist they are. I'm hanging out in the lower left corner next to the Dalai Lama. On the flip side, a lot of people who spend their time howling about freedom would probably be surprised to learn how authoritarian they are in reality. Not that reality is a place they visit very often.

Sample Graph:

My Point:

[JesusFightClub]

Some people think that socialism would lead to communism. Its silly, I know but that is what they believe.

I believe socialism will lead to communism. It's called the transitional phase.

However, Obama is not a socialist and this requires a revolution first. A proper revolution.

[fundiefan]

My personal feeling? A lot of these people are using buzzwords. They don't understand that the terms "Marxist" and "Socialist" have actual, you know, definitions. I have a friend - a Socialist - who is continually told that X, Y, and Z politicians are "Socialists," and gets blanks stares when he tries to explain that HE is a Socialist and these politicians are NOT.

I once had a person try to defend their political position by saying that someone in Obama's administration listed Mao Tse Tung as one of the most influential writers she'd ever read. Therefore, apparently, he is a Socialist AND a Marxist AND everyone in his administration is secretly plotting to turn the US into some kind of undemocratic Satan's playground.

It's hard to talk politics with crazy people.

That. Demonizing a term is far easier than understanding it.

[Kaylee]

My personal feeling? A lot of these people are using buzzwords. They don't understand that the terms "Marxist" and "Socialist" have actual, you know, definitions.

This. It's been going on since at least the 40s or 50s, but a certain segment of people on the right seem to think that everyone to the left of them is a Marxist or Socialist. It's the same thing as the people in the 50s who called all their political opponents Communists or "Reds".

I always found it freaky because the only people I knew who did that were people who had been members of the Klan and similar groups, and then suddenly it seemed to be the new buzzword in "mainstream" politics.

[freehannie]

I think part of the issue is that to fundamentalists socialists and marxists, along with feminists, are looking to change structural inequalities in order to provide for all citizens things like education, health care and work opportunities. If you believe that hierarchies that exist are fair and those who are not doing well deserve their station in life, this is very threatening. Also, if you are barely making it yourself and comfort yourself with the notion that at least you aren't relying on services provided by the government which gives you a sense of superiority over those who do, how will you feel if you lose that ability to judge others because it seems acceptable to need help sometimes? I always think these views fly in the face of Jesus's teachings, but a lot of the prosperity gospel preachers and fundamentalists disagree.

[Guest Anonymous]

I think part of the issue is that to fundamentalists socialists and marxists, along with feminists, are looking to change structural inequalities in order to provide for all citizens things like education, health care and work opportunities. If you believe that hierarchies that exist are fair and those who are not doing well deserve their station in life, this is very threatening. Also, if you are barely making it yourself and comfort yourself with the notion that at least you aren't relying on services provided by the government which gives you a sense of superiority over those who do, how will you feel if you lose that ability to judge others because it seems acceptable to need help sometimes? I always think these views fly in the face of Jesus's teachings, but a lot of the prosperity gospel preachers and fundamentalists disagree.

Nail on the head, right on. I'd like to bake you a cake.

[justlurking]

I believe socialism will lead to communism. It's called the transitional phase.

However, Obama is not a socialist and this requires a revolution first. A proper revolution.

And the revolution will not be televised...

[Brainsample]

I agree with the posters who said that most of the people who use "socialism" as the boogeyman don't actually have the slightest idea of what it is.

I got a link to this the other day and I thought it was very interesting, this seems like a good place to share it.

http://www.politicalcompass.org/test

If you take the test it will plot your social and economic views on a graph. I think a lot of people (not Free Jingerites, who tend to be quite politically aware) would be surprised to find out just how socialist they are. I'm hanging out in the lower left corner next to the Dalai Lama. On the flip side, a lot of people who spend their time howling about freedom would probably be surprised to learn how authoritarian they are in reality. Not that reality is a place they visit very often.

Sample Graph:

My Point:

I fall in the quadrant with Milton Friedman (bottom right), but a little closer to the vertical axis. Between Friedman and Ayn Rand. I like both as authors, too.

I like the idea of the autonomy of regional government and national decentralization (a republic). Unity that accommodates diversity. Socialism can flatten out diversity, and democracy becomes the tyranny of the majority. If you are the minority, you become a slave to the masses as opposed to the slave of an elite ruling class.

A society is a collective, but collectivism (as a philosophical ideal) has different shades of control. Marxism, socialism, etc. are all types of collectivism. It's the philosophy of how to balance the needs and rights of individuals against the needs and rights of the group. The system of decentralization allows for pockets of free belief with like-minded individuals that can come together with others who have different ideas, but still have cooperation and therefore unity.

What is sad to me is that in its war against anything with a shade of collectivism, most Evangelicals just become a different type of collectivism. They want all the same control mechanisms and more, but they think they will do it better than a collectivist if they are in control. They are more totalitarian and their system is more closed than a highly restrictive socialistic one in many cases.

[Brainsample]

Regarding feminism, people like Jennie Chancey claim that the fascists and collectivists invented feminism.

In this book, there's lots of evidence that the early fascists and socialists gave a very limited degreee of autonomy to women at first and decided that they didn't like it very much. They then started campaigns to get women barefoot, pregnant, and back into the kitchen again. So the idea that all of this feminism was birthed as a communist and socialist and fascist tactic to destroy free society is a joke, if what this book documents is truly accurate.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0813533082

[JesusFightClub]

And the revolution will not be televised...

Haaa, that's Gil Scott Heron amirite? I have a brother who was a great fan of his and was saddened when he died.

[anniebgood]

This is where I stand. My republican parents would be appalled. I can still remember my dad (b. 1899-d. 1964) telling me that Roosevelt sold us down the river during WW2. Probably because of the fact that most of his ancestral home was now communist Poland instead of Germany, although that portion of Germany was East Germany too and communist.

edited because I didn't want you to think my dad was 112.

[tehgoobster]

I guess I'm more liberal than I thought.

[justlurking]

Haaa, that's Gil Scott Heron amirite? I have a brother who was a great fan of his and was saddened when he died.

Lol, urrite. Whenever I see or hear someone talking about a revolution, I just can't help myself and gotta throw in that little ditty.

[Austin]

Pretty much no surprises here, but I really like how this measures more than just the typical two ends of the spectrum.

[JesusFightClub]

Economic Left/Right: -9.62

Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -7.44

I can't make the graph work but this is me.

[Alecto]

Anyone surprised?