Rapist Wants his Victim's Browsing Records in Court Case

[happy atheist]

This is interesting to me because, if anything, I think a situation like this involves a grey area in the reverse of what's being claimed. Essentially, the woman who is claiming to have been raped because she wouldn't have agreed to the BDSM if she knew the relationship was going to end early seems to be using the threat of a rape accusation to force someone to continue a sexual relationship they won't want to continue. That brings in questions of consent on the part of the person who is basically being blackmailed into staying in the relationship.

If the woman wanted out of the contract early and her partner forced her to continue, that would definitely be rape, so I'd say the reverse is true.

Does anyone with legal training know how enforceable these kinds of contracts are?

[Boogalou]

Did they explain why that information could be relevant? I don't understand at all. I can understand why they would ask about past sexual behaviour etc. (I think that's horrible too, but there's more of a reason), but computer searches? Why? In case she was secretly having a relationship with him? In case she googled rape porn or how to get someone convicted of rape?

The BDSM one is odd because it does seem like pressure. And I don't think it's a crime if you say you'll only do certain things if they stay and they don't.

But misrepresentation can void consent and turn otherwise consensual sex into rape in some unusual cases. Not sure how I feel about that.

What reason is that?

[BlackHawk]

If the woman wanted out of the contract early and her partner forced her to continue, that would definitely be rape, so I'd say the reverse is true.

Does anyone with legal training know how enforceable these kinds of contracts are?

I don't have legal training, but I do know those contracts are not legally binding. It's illegal to own someone, thus you cannot have a contract that states you are a master and this is your slave. You cannot sign away your rights to be a human being either.

[Gil]

I'm not really convinced that the BDSM thing is necessarily what they say it is. It sounds like a sensationalist sort of show, from the description, and I haven't heard about it anywhere else.

[Kaylee]

Does anyone with legal training know how enforceable these kinds of contracts are?

No legal training, but I've been involved with some groups that have done work on BDSM and consent and have included people with legal training and experience.

The contracts are not legally binding or enforceable for several reasons:

1. You can't legally consent to slavery/ownership of another person.

2. In many places, you can't consent to assault or illegal activity, which is how BDSM is regarded by law in many places in the US.

3. Even if the contract was valid, consent can always be withdrawn, which would nullify the contract.

I don't think the case I was talking about is the same one that is in the media, because the woman involved says she hasn't decided if she will try to press charges yet, but it seems like almost any time something like this comes up in the media there's a ton of distortion and sensationalism reporting around it. There's also an unfortunate tendency for the mainstream media to vilify even consensual BDSM and an even worse one for some people in the kink/BDSM community to try to ignore or cover up rape.

[Guest Anonymous]

I've never heard or read anyone claim that suspects don't deserve trials. That doesn't mean that you are being dishonest, just that I've never come across that idea and it strikes me as bizarre. Can you tell us what the name of the forum was?

marshallweb.com/forum Right now the forum isn't found, and the domain itself is just offering their e-mail addresses. It was mostly made up of people my best friend went to school with and then some people some of them knew, like me. There was a small group of "feminazis" as they started getting called who had the idea that a woman's word should always be taken over a man because of how much time in history women were treated like property, so the men of today shouldn't complain if they get the short end of the stick. It just ended up being a really massive issue for a group of about 50 people and they convinced some others that the burden of proof shouldn't have to exist in a crime where it usually comes down to word against word and it's revictimizing someone to make her talk about it on the stand.

[Guest Anonymous]

marshallweb.com/forum Right now the forum isn't found, and the domain itself is just offering their e-mail addresses. It was mostly made up of people my best friend went to school with and then some people some of them knew, like me. There was a small group of "feminazis" as they started getting called who had the idea that a woman's word should always be taken over a man because of how much time in history women were treated like property, so the men of today shouldn't complain if they get the short end of the stick. It just ended up being a really massive issue for a group of about 50 people and they convinced some others that the burden of proof shouldn't have to exist in a crime where it usually comes down to word against word and it's revictimizing someone to make her talk about it on the stand.

That's a fucked up thing to say. Just because some other people started it doesn't mean you have to keep doing it.

[luckystone]

What reason is that?

Well, say they knew each other and had had sex before. That doesn't mean it's not rape if she says no that particular time. But if I were on the defence I would definitely want that information out there, because you can argue it's relevant. Browsing history is a stretch though.

[valsa]

Well, say they knew each other and had had sex before. That doesn't mean it's not rape if she says no that particular time. But if I were on the defence I would definitely want that information out there, because you can argue it's relevant. Browsing history is a stretch though.

That's the exact situation that you shouldn't be able to use a woman's sexual history against her. Friends can be raped. Friends with benefits can be raped. Girlfriends can be raped. Wives can be raped.

ETA: According to RAINN, 28% of sexual assault is committed by an intimate partner.

[Patsy]

There was a small group of "feminazis" as they started getting called who had the idea that a woman's word should always be taken over a man because of how much time in history women were treated like property, so the men of today shouldn't complain if they get the short end of the stick.

Lisa, the femininazis are in the house! They are calling from the house!

[Vex]

Lisa, the femininazis are in the house! They are calling from the house!

Laughed my ass off. But seriously, I read Lisa's post as the people who disagreed with the feminists calling them feminazis. I don't think Lisa herself was using the label except as an example of what was said. That is how I read it and I'm happy to be corrected if my level of understanding of the issue is lacking.

[luckystone]

That's the exact situation that you shouldn't be able to use a woman's sexual history against her. Friends can be raped. Friends with benefits can be raped. Girlfriends can be raped. Wives can be raped.

ETA: According to RAINN, 28% of sexual assault is committed by an intimate partner.

I know. But if I was the defence, I'd want that out there because it would confuse people. Web history? Like I said, that seems a stretch and a low move even for the defence.

[valsa]

I know. But if I was the defence, I'd want that out there because it would confuse people. Web history? Like I said, that seems a stretch and a low move even for the defence.

How is using the rape victim's sexual history NOT a low move?

[longskirtlotsakids]

How about turning it to 180%? How about making the accused rapist's past visible to law? How about putting his history up there for the jury? Putting up all of his posts, his message board activity, etc, that may prove him as a mysogynist? I think that is more relevant.

[valsa]

How about turning it to 180%? How about making the accused rapist's past visible to law? How about putting his history up there for the jury? Putting up all of his posts, his message board activity, etc, that may prove him as a mysogynist? I think that is more relevant.

I like the way your mind works.

[Guest Anonymous]

Laughed my ass off. But seriously, I read Lisa's post as the people who disagreed with the feminists calling them feminazis. I don't think Lisa herself was using the label except as an example of what was said. That is how I read it and I'm happy to be corrected if my level of understanding of the issue is lacking.

I die laughing at "the feminazis are in the house."

Yeah, she put quotations around feminazis, "as they started being called" but I still think it was totally unnecessary to put that in there. I'm so sick of nazi being applied to anything people don't like, and super sick of feminazi in particular. Then again, I'm still not sure any of that actually happened, as it is the kind of thing that is routinely made up around the internet to discredit those wacky feminists. Like the woman who said she literally burned her bra at college - in Texas, in the 2000s. I don't think so.

[teddybear]

[quote="valsa"

That's the exact situation that you shouldn't be able to use a woman's sexual history against her. Friends can be raped. Friends with benefits can be raped. Girlfriends can be raped. Wives can be raped.

ETA: According to RAINN, 28% of sexual assault is committed by an intimate partner.

[Guest Anonymous]

Raped by a woman?

[Austin]

Laughed my ass off. But seriously, I read Lisa's post as the people who disagreed with the feminists calling them feminazis. I don't think Lisa herself was using the label except as an example of what was said. That is how I read it and I'm happy to be corrected if my level of understanding of the issue is lacking.

That's how I took it, too, Vex.

[valsa]

And men can be raped. I was.

True. My list was not meant to be exhaustive, it was only meant to illustrate that people can be raped by their intimate partners (though I did kind of leave out guys. But indeed, boyfriends and husbands can be raped as well)

[BlackHawk]

Raped by a woman?

Does it matter?

[luckystone]

How about turning it to 180%? How about making the accused rapist's past visible to law? How about putting his history up there for the jury? Putting up all of his posts, his message board activity, etc, that may prove him as a mysogynist? I think that is more relevant.

Actually that's a really good point. My immediate instinct was "but prejudicial!" and definitely things like prior convictions have to be kept out by law. But sexual history should be allowed, right? I wonder why that doesn't happen.