Your loved one died so that God could teach you a lesson

[DarkAnts]

Perhaps I'm strange, but I find the idea that things like death just happen a hell of a lot more comforting than the idea that Somebody decided to, say, yank my dad away when I was 17. And if anybody tries to tell me that there was a reason for that to happen to him they'll shortly be meeting my friend Mr. 2x4.

Many hugs to you, Gigi, and to everybody here who has lost family or other loved ones. It's hard.

I hope Mr. 2x4 has lots of rusty nails stick out at one end.

I also find comfort in the fact that death just happens. Sickness happens, suffering happens. There is no reason for it. Its just part of the human condition. Telling me that its gods plan will just make me angry. If thats gods plan to teach them a lesson then I dont want any part of it.

[JesusFightClub]

What if those cutting words that stabbed my heart are so that I can someday comfort another whose heart has been stabbed?

Lauren, do you know someone whose heart has been physically stabbed? Don't be daft.

I respect your strong feelings, but I think you're going a wee bit too far.

[wtfrenchtoast]

Perhaps I'm strange, but I find the idea that things like death just happen a hell of a lot more comforting than the idea that Somebody decided to, say, yank my dad away when I was 17. And if anybody tries to tell me that there was a reason for that to happen to him they'll shortly be meeting my friend Mr. 2x4.

Many hugs to you, Gigi, and to everybody here who has lost family or other loved ones. It's hard.

This this this. I do find some small sort of comfort in know that sometimes shitty stuff just happens. There's no grand, overarching plan that demanded the life of little Veronica Moser to be snuffed out so violently, just a pawn in God's great game. God didn't kill my sister's beloved boyfriend in a car accident for some grand Reason. It just happened because bad things happen in life. And that's okay with me. I find that so much easier to accept and deal with than having someone tell me God used their deaths for his plan, because if that's true, his plan fucking sucks. Maybe he should develop a plan that allows everyone to live long, full lives filled with joy and love and happiness.

[latraviata]

I'm sorry for your loss, GiGi.

I have to say I'm so glad to finally found a group of human beings who feel the same way I do about so many things. I'm surrounded by Christians, mostly fundie & fundielite, & I have to bite my tongue every day about something. You guys are awesome!

Well, it is nice you feel that way about FJ.

However, once in the middle of a heated debate (I don't always agree with the general positions) somebody made a remark about medication, which apparantly is an expression and I took it personally because I used to take an antidepressant shortly after the death of my son.A long story short, the pack of benefactors and gooders thought that I used my deceased son to enforce some empathy or whatever.

I can tell you that some responses were relentless. I remember one charming response in particular, 'do you think you are the only one who lost a child?'

[Guest Anonymous]

Well, it is nice you feel that way about FJ.

However, once in the middle of a heated debate (I don't always agree with the general positions) somebody made a remark about medication, which apparantly is an expression and I took it personally because I used to take an antidepressant shortly after the death of my son.A long story short, the pack of benefactors and gooders thought that I used my deceased son to enforce some empathy or whatever.

I can tell you that some responses were relentless. I remember one charming response in particular, 'do you think you are the only one who lost a child?'

Not a hive vagina. There are over 3,000 members here, and there were maybe two or three people that said something to you about the frequency and circumstances in which you spoke about your son's death. Now you're tarring everyone with the same brush over it. I am very sorry that your son died. I can't begin to understand that pain. But people react badly to you because you tend to be fucking insufferable, not because you lost your son.

I know that Burris, for one, said that she should not have said what she did, but you still don't let it go. This is an ongoing theme with you. You treat other people like utter shit but demand to be handled with kid gloves yourself -and continue to dredge up old slights from over a year ago. I freely admit that I am not nice, but I don't expect anyone to be nice to me, either.

As for the medication comment, do you refer to this yuku thread from May 2011 - Where someone says something about Xanax and then they immediately apologize to you? And you go on to be horrible to numerous other posters? http://freejinger.yuku.com/reply/163106 ... ply-163106

Or we have this thread, where you bring it up again and shit all over some more people, including flying at someone whom you accused of making the original comment. (It wasn't that person, it was someone else.) viewtopic.php?p=29430#p29430

And finally here, where Burris said something about "stupid pills" and did make the one remark in regards to you talking about your son, which she almost immediately acknowledged that she should not have said. You were an absolute beast to loads of people in that thread, too!

viewtopic.php?f=8&t=1438

If you're going to freak out about what an awful pack of hyenas (or whatever animal you're invoking with that metaphor) we all are here, then newer posters should at least have the context so they can decide for themselves whether or not they agree with your assessment of what happened.

Do fasten your seatbelts for serious what-the-fuckery if you choose to click the links and go down the rabbit holes. Between MagicalMuggle and latraviata I fully expect this thread to be at least ten pages by the time I get home from watching the football this evening. At least I'll have something to read.

[latraviata]

Not a hive vagina. There are over 3,000 members here, and there were maybe two or three people that said something to you about the frequency and circumstances in which you spoke about your son's death. Now you're tarring everyone with the same brush over it. I am very sorry that your son died. I can't begin to understand that pain. But people react badly to you because you tend to be fucking insufferable, not because you lost your son.

I know that Burris, for one, said that she should not have said what she did, but you still don't let it go. This is an ongoing theme with you. You treat other people like utter shit but demand to be handled with kid gloves yourself -and continue to dredge up old slights from over a year ago. I freely admit that I am not nice, but I don't expect anyone to be nice to me, either.

As for the medication comment, do you refer to this yuku thread from May 2011 - Where someone says something about Xanax and then they immediately apologize to you? And you go on to be horrible to numerous other posters? http://freejinger.yuku.com/reply/163106 ... ply-163106

Or we have this thread, where you bring it up again and shit all over some more people, including flying at someone whom you accused of making the original comment. (It wasn't that person, it was someone else.) http://www.freejinger.org/viewtopic.php?p=29430#p29430

And finally here, where Burris said something about "stupid pills" and did make the one remark in regards to you talking about your son, which she almost immediately acknowledged that she should not have said. You were an absolute beast to loads of people in that thread, too!

http://www.freejinger.org/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=1438

If you're going to freak out about what an awful pack of hyenas (or whatever animal you're invoking with that metaphor) we all are here, then newer posters should at least have the context so they can decide for themselves whether or not they agree with your assessment of what happened.

Do fasten your seatbelts for serious what-the-fuckery if you choose to click the links and go down the rabbit holes. Between MagicalMuggle and latraviata I fully expect this thread to be at least ten pages by the time I get home from watching the football this evening. At least I'll have something to read.

You missed the point completely, wether you agree or not, I referred to a charming remark about my son because of a misunderstanding about the English language since English is not my native language.

And indeed, woe to those who sometimes disagree with the general approach on matters!!

A few FJers are not as tolerant as they occur.

[DarkAnts]

Well, it is nice you feel that way about FJ.

However, once in the middle of a heated debate (I don't always agree with the general positions) somebody made a remark about medication, which apparantly is an expression and I took it personally because I used to take an antidepressant shortly after the death of my son.A long story short, the pack of benefactors and gooders thought that I used my deceased son to enforce some empathy or whatever.

I can tell you that some responses were relentless. I remember one charming response in particular, 'do you think you are the only one who lost a child?'

Sometimes its best to walk away from heated debates and not look at that thread again if it upsets you.

[JesusFightClub]

Latraviata, recently I posted on FJ about multiple embarrassing things. Being a substance addict, being involved in a murder trial where I lost someone I loved, and being arrested for separate things.

I am totally prepared to be challenged here. I sometimes am rude and bad sounding, but if I'm told I am I apologise.

When you share details of your life which are a wee bit difficult, you must be aware how others will see it. Most people are really sympathetic.

[latraviata]

Sometimes its best to walk away from heated debates and not look at that thread again if it

upsets you.

You are right, I didn't look at that threat but that particular remark stands in my memory.

When a believer says a thing like that, there will be a hurricane of indignation, a FJer on the other hand.....double standards.

[latraviata]

Latraviata, recently I posted on FJ about multiple embarrassing things. Being a substance addict, being involved in a murder trial where I lost someone I loved, and being arrested for separate things.

I am totally prepared to be challenged here. I sometimes am rude and bad sounding, but if I'm told I am I apologise.

When you share details of your life which are a wee bit difficult, you must be aware how others will see it. Most people are really sympathetic.

I agree and some people are not so sympathetic.

I fully understand that I am insufferable, a nazi, a bigot, I can take that and I don't mind a bit, but my deceased son is my heel of Achilles and somehow it hurts more coming from a FJer than from a fundie.

[GiGi_41]

Qp 1nbnnakooopopppknnbbctupv

Tqwwq y mr

ETA...just noticed one of my toddler must have gotten ahold of my kindle! Sorry!

[cate]

This sort of thinking is what made me fall away from religion. I ended up coming to the conclusion that if god is all powerful and all knowing, he clearly can't be all good, because he "created" hell and tries to teach us "lessons" through pain and death. That kind of god is an asshole. If I treated a child the way that god supposedly treats mankind, I'd be in jail for abuse. God could be all good, but then hell and the terrible things that happen to people couldn't be a part of his control, so s/he's not all powerful. Those ideals just aren't reconcilable.

Back on the original topic: THIS.

When I was 16, my mother went missing and turned up dead a month later. They ruled it a homicide. If God does exist and does things like this for a reason, I would choose not to worship It. For this "everything happens for a reason" and "God doesn't make mistakes" bullshit to be true, that would mean that, not only does He cause sickness and accidents and miscarriages, but God also forces people become murders. Not, "oh, they're sinners and separate from God, so you can't blame him" because, hey, God is all powerful and orchestrates everything in the whole wide world, right?! Makes me so fucking angry. So God not only takes away your loved ones to "teach lessons," but also causes other people's loved ones to do horrible, awful, evil things to accomplish this. Yeah, great. I guess He just loves to ruin lives and left and right.

Sorry! Got a little ranty there. And I promise I'm not looking for sympathy, though I mostly lurk and I realize many of the times I choose to post are on this subject. It's just because the whole "everything happens for a reason" thing is my fundy hot-button, so I don't have as much to say about other topics. Besides, y'all are so active that by the time I get into a thread, four people have usually already covered anything I could possibly add!

[formergothardite]

Not that it's any of your business but I've been going through all kinds of hell the past month or so and the last thing I was concerned about was coming on here to answer your snarky bullshit remarks. I don't care if you don't agree with anything I say but you don't have to act like a b!tch about it.

Oh yes, I take full responsibility for those words. I said them as I was transitioning myself out of fundamentalist Christianity.

Next time you want to belittle people, make sure your past is clean. Karma's a b!tch.

She didn't belittle you. She didn't even act like a bitch. She just pointed out that in the past you have said some pretty fundie things here and asked if you were taking responsibility for them now. If you would have just stated the middle part of your reply, than it would have all been forgotten, but as it is, you pretty much came off as a bitch yourself and people aren't going to forget this.

[GiGi_41]

Back on the original topic: THIS.

Sorry! Got a little ranty there. And I promise I'm not looking for sympathy, though I mostly lurk and I realize many of the times I choose to post are on this subject. It's just because the whole "everything happens for a reason" thing is my fundy hot-button, so I don't have as much to say about other topics.

I'm so sorry for your loss. I do a lot of lurking too but this subject, like yourself, gets under my skin.

[DistantStar]

I hope Mr. 2x4 has lots of rusty nails stick out at one end.

I also find comfort in the fact that death just happens. Sickness happens, suffering happens. There is no reason for it. Its just part of the human condition. Telling me that its gods plan will just make me angry. If thats gods plan to teach them a lesson then I dont want any part of it.

Definitely.

I do believe in God (most of the time), but not in anything like the same ways as the fundies. And I find a belief that horrible things happen because of "God's plan" to be obscene -- particularly untimely deaths. Death is a part of life but it's not inflicted on us deliberately. Life couldn't go on, in the grand sense, without it. That doesn't make it easy to live with, but at least I don't feel I have to suck up to the monster who murdered my dad to teach me a lesson. I just miss him.

[celestial]

I'm so sorry for the losses you all have shared in this thread. :(

[marmalade]

Latraviata, recently I posted on FJ about multiple embarrassing things. Being a substance addict, being involved in a murder trial where I lost someone I loved, and being arrested for separate things.

I am totally prepared to be challenged here. I sometimes am rude and bad sounding, but if I'm told I am I apologise.

When you share details of your life which are a wee bit difficult, you must be aware how others will see it. Most people are really sympathetic.

I love your Scottish "voice." We all do shitty things in our lives and shitty things happen to every one of us. We learn from both. My greatest FJ wish would be to be one of your mates, even better, a comrade. :mrgreen:

For the board in general: I am sorry when people lose loved ones and the platitudes help for a while, but after my dad passed and the dust settled, I had to deal with his estate (4 years later, it's finally discharged) while going through a nervous breakdown. Guess what? All of my siblings were there to devour the contents of my parents' house (two brought vans to drive their booty back home thousands of miles away...I took pictures relevant to me, a painting my parents bought in Venice and an Italian stoneware plate). Guess who was there when I was cracking up? The answer? No fucking body. I had to drop out of school for a semester to get my shit together, selling the family home while barely being able to function was the hardest part.

[Mela99]

Your loved one died so that God could teach you a lesson

That, in my view, is a pure example of the typical selfish and narcissistic view that most fundies have. No, you are NOT that important. You are one of eleven billion people. Life and death are not intrinsically tied to you. You are not the only person that deceased individual ever came into contact with. How about their friends and family? God had to knock off one person to teach a ton of people a lesson at the exact same time.

The universe is too big and complicated for that to be true.

And I refuse to believe that some deaths have a reason. People die in tragic, pointless circumstances day in and day out. Sometimes they go without any notice. So, no. Deaths are not meant to teach you a lesson. Idiots.

[latraviata]

She didn't belittle you. She didn't even act like a bitch. She just pointed out that in the past you have said some pretty fundie things here and asked if you were taking responsibility for them now. If you would have just stated the middle part of your reply, than it would have all been forgotten, but as it is, you pretty much came off as a bitch yourself and people aren't going to forget this.

Oh come on, she is very clear about distancing herself from her fundie lifestyle and it is obviously very hard to do the transition, we all know that. She is accountable to herself and only herself about the things she might have said or thought in another fase of her life. What is FJ? A tribunal? The inquisition? I fully understand why she feels offended and being bitched. Give her the credit she deserves. I appplaud you MagicalMuggle for your courage!!

[formergothardite]

Free Jinger is a place where if you say stuff like she originally did, people will remember and ask you about it. She said she takes full responsibility for her words, so Lissar asked if she took responsibility for the things she said here. And then instead of just saying, "yes I do, I was still coming out of being a fundie at that point." she went all, "WHY MUST YOU BE A BITCH TO ME".

I came out of being hard-core fundie, I know what it is like. I also know that when someone asks you about something your wrote/said during the transitional fundie stage, then you just have to admit that you were wrong at that point and that you know longer believe that way. Being asked about stuff you said in the past isn't being persecuted, attacked or belittled, especially if you no longer believe that way. Hell, I was still Christian when I first started posting here, so if someone asked me about the Christian stuff I spouted in some of my first posts, I would just have to say I don't believe that way.

Lissar also has a point, bitch is still bitch even if you spell it b!tch. You don't magically not call someone a name by sticking a ! in the place of an 'i'.

[latraviata]

Free Jinger is a place where if you say stuff like she originally did, people will remember and ask you about it. She said she takes full responsibility for her words, so Lissar asked if she took responsibility for the things she said here. And then instead of just saying, "yes I do, I was still coming out of being a fundie at that point." she went all, "WHY MUST YOU BE A BITCH TO ME".

Yes and so what? Again, is FJ a tribunal? She obviously takes responsibility for her words, what else is she supposed to do to satisfy Lissar's standards? Self-flagellation? Mortification? Public penance? Sometimes I really think that some FJers are as dense and intolerant as many believers.

What should one do to get through the FJ balloting?

[B5SnowDog]

Perhaps I'm strange, but I find the idea that things like death just happen a hell of a lot more comforting than the idea that Somebody decided to, say, yank my dad away when I was 17.

I agree, I'd rather it be random than something personal. And I'm sorry you lost your dad.

[MagicalMuggle]

I would like to apologize for my words / actions yesterday. I hope you will forgive me. I normally am not like that at all. I think the things my husband and I are going through is getting to me more than I thought. :cry: Even though life sucks, I should not have lashed out on here. Again, I apologize for that.

I felt like I was being made fun of because of something I said in the past. Something that doesn't even matter any more. I didn't appreciate being made a mockery of, okay?

Hopefully we can keep this topic on what the thread is really all about from here on out. ;)

Tschuss!

[Guest Anonymous]

Oh come on, she is very clear about distancing herself from her fundie lifestyle and it is obviously very hard to do the transition, we all know that. She is accountable to herself and only herself about the things she might have said or thought in another fase of her life. What is FJ? A tribunal? The inquisition? I fully understand why she feels offended and being bitched. Give her the credit she deserves. I appplaud you MagicalMuggle for your courage!!

Compared to some of your earlier devil's advocate, "I'm such a persecuted visionary, I refuse to assimilate into the hive!" trollings, this one is a bit weak. Seriously though, if I'm supposed to let someone off the hook for something that happened a month ago, maybe you should give over talking about something that happened well over a year ago. And stop saying it was OMG ALL OF FJ when it was actually like four people.

I would like to apologize for my words / actions yesterday. I hope you will forgive me. I normally am not like that at all. I think the things my husband and I are going through is getting to me more than I thought. :cry: Even though life sucks, I should not have lashed out on here. Again, I apologize for that.

I felt like I was being made fun of because of something I said in the past. Something that doesn't even matter any more. I didn't appreciate being made a mockery of, okay?

Hopefully we can keep this topic on what the thread is really all about from here on out. ;)

Tschuss!

Hey, my feelings are not hurt. What is important to me is that you don't refer to other women as a vast collection of viragos. That's fundie talk, and I had to reprogram a whole lot of it out of myself, so I have been there. The comment happened a month ago and it was never addressed because you stopped posting. Under those circumstances it's very likely that someone will want to know if you continue to believe the things that you said. If you don't, then a quick acknowledgement takes care of it.

If you can't handle being questioned or asked to clarify then you are going to have a really uncomfortable time here. The forum is called Quiver Full of Snark, not Quiver Full of Hand Holding. And staying on topic is not really a thing that we do. As long as it doesn't violate the ToU, you can say anything that you want here - but you should be prepared to be questioned on it.

[DistantStar]

I agree, I'd rather it be random than something personal. And I'm sorry you lost your dad.

Thanks. I know losing one's parents is to be expected at some point, but at seventeen with no warning was hard. I have a good life now and I know he'd be happy for me but oh I miss him sometimes.

This thread pushed a button of mine, obviously.