Taking away Halloween...

[ADoyle90815]

I also have enjoyed Halloween, especially since growing up all the kids would go trick-or-treating without our parents watching over us like a hawk. We just had to check in briefly at home before going down other streets in the neighborhood to let them know we were going to be going down that street. The only children who had parents with them were the preschool age children. Now, I do know some people who did have helicopter parents, and they were the ones who had a hard time becoming self-sufficient as adults, and as children, they were more of a target for bullying because they were the only ones who still had a parent go trick-or-treating with them after kindergarten.

The only thing I didn't like was that my parents said that as soon as we were out of elementary school, we were too old for trick-or-treating, but they still allowed us to celebrate Halloween by going to parties or one of those haunted events.

[ADoyle90815]

HAH! Yep.....you knew you were scraping the bottom of the barrel when you finally ate the hubba bubba, the loose candy corn or the hard candies. At least, those were my last resort, November items. Was probably different for everyone. ;)

That's true for me as well, those candies were saved until mid-November after the good stuff was eaten.

[SquirrelySquirrel]

How sad. My daughter just turned 7 and she would be freaking devastated if we took away Halloween. And I agree that it's ridiculous to take the kiddies to "trunk or treat" and all that if you're against trick-or-treating because it's so evil and wrong.

We love Halloween. It's always been my favorite holiday, and then I met MrSquirrel at a wild Halloween party, so it was like fate. :mrgreen: Our daughter also loves it, and even though she's a somewhat prissy girly-girl, she's all about being scary. We have a lot of fun as a family coming up with our ideas and creating our own costumes. We started that when she was 2 and went trick-or-treating the first time, and she has chosen that way ever since. I actually look forward to posting pics of her on FB every year because I know some of my more conservative, non-Halloween friends are judging the hell out of us for it.

My biggest beef with trick-or-treating today is all the parents driving their kids from house to house. The fuck? I can remember having to sport a snowsuit under my costume a couple of times because it was so cold, but we were still walking from house to house. That's part of the fun! Not to mention it's dangerous and annoying to have the added traffic on the roads with so many others walking.

[Mythicwings]

Like Debrand, my son was also born on Halloween so it is special to me. I love telling people he was born on Halloween and I love to do it full of pride. It's a special time that has been marked as such for centuries and I'm proud to have a child that was born on it FOR THAT REASON. Furthermore, I absolutely agree with everything single thing Debrand said, and couldn't have said it better.

Samhein, which most of you know very loosely translates into the Halloween most non pagans celebrate today, has been around longer than Christianity. Do extreme fundies realize how many, many of their holidays are based on old pagan holidays??? Sheesh. These are people who consistently can not see the bigger picture. Ever.

As far as I'm concerned, I know there is something out there, I know it because I've felt and experienced it. I get that, to some eyes, this is not a being outside ourselves as much as a chemical or internal human mechanism. I'm good with that. But for me, I like to think it is outside of us. That is the end of what I know, and I refuse to pretend I know more. Furthermore, it infuriates me when someone, anyone, thinks they have the ONLY one true answer to something to utterly unknowable.

As far as I'm concerned, every religion man has ever made since the beginning of our existence, has been created to connect with that feeling or being. They are all the same in that they serve that one purpose, and every person needs to follow the path that works best for them to that end. THAT I can respect. But all this "my way's better than your way" or "your way is evil" or "my way is the only way" or, as we deal with on the fundie level "I feel so strongly that my way is the only way that I am going to psychologically, mentally, socially stunt myself and my family so that they are not exposed to any other options"......that is just such a foreign, ugly concept to me.

Believe what works for you and let me believe what works for me, and leave my damn Halloween alone!

OK Going to climb off my soap box now and go to work. ;)

:) :) :)

Whatever the reason or cause, humans do feel this sense of the sacred, however they express it or not. Some people just feel it watching sci-fi movies. But it's there, and it is so violating for someone to tell someone else what that space within them should be. Halloween is a big part of that for me, for some reason. It's my major holiday, while most of my family tries to accept that and at least they still do have the fun with the goofy part, even though they do think the whole thing is horrible evil. Not even sure why they think it is evil - maybe because they are Baptists so All Soul's Day doesn't christianize it enough for them, like Christmas is with the whole birthing thing.

[caito]

That's so sad :( Those poor kids.

[Buggaboo]

:) :) :)

Whatever the reason or cause, humans do feel this sense of the sacred, however they express it or not. Some people just feel it watching sci-fi movies. But it's there, and it is so violating for someone to tell someone else what that space within them should be. Halloween is a big part of that for me, for some reason. It's my major holiday, while most of my family tries to accept that and at least they still do have the fun with the goofy part, even though they do think the whole thing is horrible evil. Not even sure why they think it is evil - maybe because they are Baptists so All Soul's Day doesn't christianize it enough for them, like Christmas is with the whole birthing thing.

I agree, Mythicwings. :)

I remember reading once that at the very beginning of Christianity two things happened that I think are relevant to what we're talking about.

The first was that they needed to make the religion, and therefore the Bible, more cohesive. So some parts were taken out. This was a series of conscious decisions. Parts were left out, seers were discredited, parts were changed........in other words.......they did some heavy editing in the evolving stages to make it a cohesive, consistent religion. (And some of that stuff is damn interesting, if you haven't already read about it.)

The second was, they had to draw a line in the sand, so to speak. They basically said, you are either with us or against us. You are either Christian or you are not. And if you are not, you are evil. To underscore this, and to lure people away from the old pagan traditions, they centered their holidays around the old holidays. So if Yule was beloved, and people didn't want to let it go, Christmas was scheduled in a similar time slot and given similar traditions to ease the transition and entice people to leave the old ways once and for all. It was a double whammy (and eerily similar to what they are doing to day with harvest fests to replace Halloween) -- it was to say: your old traditions are wrong and bad, but here we have a comforting (somewhat familiar) alternative that is good and holy.

This is why many pagan imagery and tradition exists in Christian holidays to this day. And it's also why "Halloween" is considered evil. Not because it's evil inherently, but because if it's not Christian, it is evil by default.

The same can be said for their bias against any nature based, pagan religion or symbolism (pentagram, anyone?).

I wish I could remember where I read that......I used to admin at a paranormal web site and later branched off to have my own. I remember writing a lot for each of those so it probably came about during research for writing......anyway I think it's all fascinating. Granted, it annoys the hell out of me that some people continue to think this way and haven't evolved a wit....but from a strictly factual standpoint it's interesting stuff!

[jenny_islander]

I honestly don't understand taking away one celebration in favor of another.

I mean, how is a child expected to understand that celebrating THIS way is bad, but celebrating THAT way is good? Especially when both observations of the day include costumes and treats?

It makes zero logical sense.

ETA: the only upsetting part of Halloween for me, growing up, was that the dentist down the street handed out toothbrushes.

Hey, don't knock toothbrushes! Our local dentist gets the ones that glow in the dark.

[twin2]

She'll probably take away Easter at some point.

She already has. It is now resurrection Sunday and it does not involve, bunnies, baskets or goodies.

[gravelmonkey]

And I agree that it's ridiculous to take the kiddies to "trunk or treat" and all that if you're against trick-or-treating because it's so evil and wrong.

People near cars handing out candy to children? That's considered a better alternative? SOTDT must not teach "stranger danger".

[Mythicwings]

I remember reading once that at the very beginning of Christianity two things happened that I think are relevant to what we're talking about.

The first was that they needed to make the religion, and therefore the Bible, more cohesive. So some parts were taken out. This was a series of conscious decisions. Parts were left out, seers were discredited, parts were changed........in other words.......they did some heavy editing in the evolving stages to make it a cohesive, consistent religion. (And some of that stuff is damn interesting, if you haven't already read about it.)

What would you recommend reading about that? It sounds REALLY interesting. I just found out that my family officially approves of the dead sea scrolls :lol: I'm laughing because I can never figure out what they will consider right or wrong. And my one brother and father have masters degrees in religion or seminary and so you'd think they would know the actual history, but maybe it's like history at the SOTDT? I did read a book by a Jewish scholar about Paul, The Mythmaker - LOVED that one.

twin2 said about taking Easter away

She already has. It is now resurrection Sunday and it does not involve, bunnies, baskets or goodies.

oh for pete's sake.

[Buggaboo]

What would you recommend reading about that? It sounds REALLY interesting. I just found out that my family officially approves of the dead sea scrolls :lol: I'm laughing because I can never figure out what they will consider right or wrong. And my one brother and father have masters degrees in religion or seminary and so you'd think they would know the actual history, but maybe it's like history at the SOTDT? I did read a book by a Jewish scholar about Paul, The Mythmaker - LOVED that one.

twin2 said about taking Easter away

oh for pete's sake.

Let me talk to my mom, I know that one really good book I read on it actually had full accounts of a large portion that was purposely left out. She has the book at her camp, I'll give her a ring!

[SpeakNow]

Let me talk to my mom, I know that one really good book I read on it actually had full accounts of a large portion that was purposely left out. She has the book at her camp, I'll give her a ring!

I'd love to read that!

[Mythicwings]

Let me talk to my mom, I know that one really good book I read on it actually had full accounts of a large portion that was purposely left out. She has the book at her camp, I'll give her a ring!

Thanks, Buggaboo!

[Anxious Girl]

I'm 20, but look like a highschool freshman. I could probably get away with trick r' treating... :whistle:

[Mythicwings]

I love it when people come to the door with their dog in a costume and no kids, carrying a pumpkin for candy which is obviously meant for the grown up humans of the dog! :P So fun! They are great.

[lilah]

Growing up my family was friends with an orthodox Jewish family who did not celebrate Halloween or other secular holidays. They had two daughters who were envious that my sister and I got to trick or treat. So one year I hatched a plan where they would "happen" to sleep over on 10/31 and just "happen" to sneak over some dress up clothes and then we'd trick or treat . Their mom totally saw through that ruse but let us go anyway.

I had a student tell me she didn't celebrate Halloween because its the devil's birthday. She is one of the sweetest and nicest students in the school, i hope her family isn't going to turn her into a raging fundie bigot.

[mpheels]

That makes me sad :?

I love Halloween, and I actually learned a lot of practical life lesson stuff trick or treating. By 4th grade I was allowed to go out with friends to trick-or-treat, without a parent. We spent a weeks worth of lunches drawing maps of the neighborhood and planning the most efficient route. My mom gave me a costume budget, and I spent weeks planning a costume, figuring out what I needed and could afford within the budget. Once I had my pillow case full of candy, I sorted and counted, and wrote an inventory so I would know if a sibling was sneaking candy (yes, I was that anal).

Now, I live in a town where Halloween is a big freakin' deal for adults too. The main downtown strip is closed to traffic and people show up by the tens of thousands to look at costumes. Most of the costumes are pretty run of the mill, but there are always a few really amazing ones. There are also a lot of "costumes" designed around wearing as little clothing as legally possible, which would probably make Kendal's head explode.

Something the fundies might like... The police shut down the Halloween street party at 11pm. They have a little parade of officers on foot, motorcycles, squad cars, and street sweepers drive down the street, herding people to the sidewalks. The first time they used that technique to clear the streets, there was a guy dressed as Moses who happened to be at the end of the road when the parade started. He walked in front of the line of motorcycles parting the sea of people.

[BookEater]

Like Debrand, my son was also born on Halloween so it is special to me.

My youngest daughter was born on Halloween too. I think it is a great birthday. It is funny to see the different reactions I get when I tell someone she was born on Halloween. There are the people who think it is cool, the ones who don't care, and the ones who make it clear it is somehow wrong. You know they are crossing themselves as soon as they turn their back. :lol:

My favorite was a comment from a Lutheran pastor. He said, Don't you mean Reformation Day?" :roll:

[NerdyHil]

This just kills me. Poor, poor children of Kendull. Halloween is a big deal with my family of choice. We usually call it the "stock-up" time of the year. Because we're creepy. Even in our university having, large for the state town we don't get trick-or-treaters anymore. It's all trunk or treat or candy at each store in the sad excuse for a mall. I don't think it's large Mormon population that caused this shift, more of the amount of lazy parents. Oh, and pedophiles. We seem to have a lot here. I have been told I was worshiping Satan for putting up a Halloween display at a store I was working at by a fairly fundie customer. But, I also got asked if Hellboy was a Christian by one once. That made for some awkward conversation, and then some great laughs later. The crazy fundie to fundie-lite groups here have always had a "Fall Festival" to replace any Halloween fun. I got dragged to one once growing up. I was excited for the haunted house, because I dig stuff like that, but it was a "hell house" with anti-abortion propaganda.

[Buggaboo]

It is funny to see the different reactions I get when I tell someone she was born on Halloween. There are the people who think it is cool, the ones who don't care, and the ones who make it clear it is somehow wrong. You know they are crossing themselves as soon as they turn their back. :lol:

Yep, been there! I like to see their reactions too, and the diversity there in, because my Wiccan friends (which I am not one, but have quite a few friends who are) see it as a blessing, I'm sure my fundie cousins think it's a curse, and as you say.....every range of reactions in between!

[Avalondaughter]

I have a friend who is sort of fundie lite/conservative Christian Lutheran who won't let her kids celebrate Halloween. She was a Wiccan for years prior to her conversion and I think she is just terrified of anything associated with that time in her life. I think she really believed she was successfully casting spells and conjuring. I think she fears anything related to those days makes her feel the devil will reclaim her soul, or tempt her children.

Plenty of Christians are trying to take back Easter from its pagan roots. I hear the term Resurrection Sunday quite often these days.

[2xx1xy1JD]

My kids have never gone trick-or-treating, even though many of their friends do and they know that I did when I was younger.

I don't see it as a major deprivation. They know the reasons behind our decision, and they aren't lacking in holidays or candies. It just means that they dress up and get treats on Purim (in February or March, it's a holiday based on the Book of Esther) instead.

[FloraDoraDolly]

I'm 20, but look like a highschool freshman. I could probably get away with trick r' treating... :whistle:

Go for it! I didn't stop trick or treating until I was nineteen. I could probably still get away with it if I wore the right costume. :P

[LostSamurai]

I don't think I ever met anyone who didn't let their kid go trick or treating due to it being 'Satan'....and I know quite a few fundie-lite people and even work for one.

Really though,.....what's wrong with the kid wanting some free candy? Let a kid be a kid. It's not like most kids are going to even know that Halloween is based on a Pagan Holiday anyway.

[nomoxian]

I was raised in a Christian home and Halloween was celebrated... even the LDS church one of my family members went to had a Halloween party.

If I wasn't "allowed" to celebrate it, I would have rebelled (even more than I did already)