More fun with stuffed animal courtesy of the Arndt boys

[Hane]

Steve alludes to her being 8 in the article, and it was written in early 2005, so that's probably about right.

Even if she had been a teenager, though, I doubt Mary would be able to go alone. If the Duggars (who seem positively liberal by comparison) require their children to have an "accountability partner" around at all times, I have no doubt that the teenage Maxwells have/had at least that level of restriction.

I must admit that, when my daughter was 12 and getting braces, I was surprised to see the orthodontist addressing most of his questions to her, not me (The One With The Checkbook). Later, I realized that my daughter would be the one responsible for her own "home care," not me. Has anyone here stood over a kid with braces and supervised his/her brushing, rinsing, and headgear-wearing 24X7 for over a year? I didn't, and anyone who has is a tougher mother than I am!

[JesusFightClub]

However, she never paused long enough for Mary's answer nor for Teri to help her understand Biblical authority

Yeah, I'm sure THAT would have helped. :roll:

[skankbiscuit]

Don't handslap me, but I do see their point here. Those were not questions to ask an 8 year old. My daughter also had braces when she was 8, long term planning was discussed with me. Of course, she was asked about comfort, tightness, looseness, etc but kids that age have no idea about quick or slow fixes, or what is best. Parents have to make decisions on what they know about their kids sometimes, and hope they make the right choice.

I don't take this stance because of their biblical authortity crap, but because I know quite a bit about child development.

[ShesCrafty]

Well, I would consider immature and childish two totally separate things- my cousin and his wife are immature. Her last few FB posts have been because she can't find jeans that are "skinny jean" enough for their 2 year old. Really.

But this picture, it isn't anything I'd bat an eye at if even my 65 year old father posted it. It isn't a good example to use to show that they are perpetual kids.

I totally get what you're saying. However, I think the difference here is that the Ardnt men are known for being inappropriately childish because of their religion and the way they were raised, so this is just more evidence of a fucked up lifestyle. Whereas if an otherwise normal 30ish person (who is not me) who holds a steady job and lives independently were to, say, have a picture of Cookie Monster as their Facebook profile pic (again, this hypothetical person is NOT ME) because they are known by their friends and family to really like cookies, I don't think anyone would think it odd or unusual.

I like cookies. Don't judge me. :snooty:

[JesusFightClub]

Don't handslap me, but I do see their point here. Those were not questions to ask an 8 year old. My daughter also had braces when she was 8, long term planning was discussed with me. Of course, she was asked about comfort, tightness, looseness, etc but kids that age have no idea about quick or slow fixes, or what is best. Parents have to make decisions on what they know about their kids sometimes, and hope they make the right choice.

I don't take this stance because of their biblical authortity crap, but because I know quite a bit about child development.

No, don't get me wrong. I think the 8yo should get input (it's her gob) and have what's going on explained. But my main objection would be Teri schooling this orthodontist on Biblical authority (which has what to do with anything, when you consider that Christians vary widely in opinion on this topic?) and "laws regarding the care of a minor" which I'm willing to bet the orthodontist, by virtue of her job, could probably school Teri in.

It's just their arrogance, their idea that they can set the whole world straight on every topic under the sun. That really comes across in the Mom's and Dad's Corner posts.

[skankbiscuit]

Yes, absolutely, the biblical spin and holier than thou attitude towards the ortho was completely uncalled for.

[CrazySister]

I can actually understand an ortho asking an 8 yo her opinion and then allowing the parents to ultimately decide (with the ortho's imput). It could've been a "simple" matter of the ortho knowing that eventually Mary would be responsible for her own care so why not start now? I'm not saying that's appropriate in all cases, but I can see times where allowing a child to voice his/her opinion and use their own voice with an authority figure is great training (thank you, Pearls, I now hate that word but can't think of a better one) for the future.

[mockingbird]

I'd be the first person to post a stuffed animal picture on my Facebook but I also have my own apartment and I am a med student. From my understanding these boys have never had jobs or lived outside their parents' house, and don't associate with many people outside their family. I collect dolls too and on the various message boards I've belonged to for that hobby there are people who seem pretty well-adjusted and have "normal" lives outside the dolls and then there are people who, when you follow their posts over a period of time, frankly seem more like the Arndt boys, stuck in a perpetual childhood for whatever reason (whether they are fundy or just choose not to be independent). So I would agree on its own the picture doesn't really say much but compounded with everything else about them it's just more evidence (to me) of their immaturity. And shelteredness (is that a word?) because we all know they did NOT think he looks like a pole dancer! :dance:

I agree with CrazySister on the ortho. My dentist/ortho would always involve the child in meetings about the treatment, so even if you don't get the final say you do get to hear and see everything explained and ask questions.

[Patsy]

Cookie Monster is a) on TV and b) eats more than two animal crackers at a time.

:lol:

[notsocommon]

To Teri's surprise, the orthodontist turned to Mary and asked her what she would like to do. Mary said she wanted to do whatever her mommy thought best. Compounding Teri's surprise, the orthodontist continued, “But, Mary, it is your mouth. What do you want to do?†However, she never paused long enough for Mary's answer nor for Teri to help her understand Biblical authority or even the laws of the state regarding the care of a minor. She went on to agree with leaving the appliance in and adjusting it more slowly.

What the orthodontist said was true. It is Mary's mouth. Most adults would quickly realize, though, how absurd it would be to expect an eight-year-old child to have the wisdom necessary to make this kind of decision. Even Mary knew she was ill prepared to make the choice on her own, and that is why she deferred to her mommy

Of course, an 8 year old does not have 'wisdom' but it IS her mouth and maybe the dentist understands that children are more compliant with their treatment if they feel empowered by having even a small say?

Cripes! I have encouraged my daughter to have her own questions for her dr since she was about five and able to begin to understand enough to ask questions about her health and treatments; she had a slew of them concerning puberty at her last visit. I also direct her doctors to ask HER questions like "do you have headaches?" instead of asking me. It is her head, she knows it better than I do!

[ElphabaGalinda]

I totally get what you're saying. However, I think the difference here is that the Ardnt men are known for being inappropriately childish because of their religion and the way they were raised, so this is just more evidence of a fucked up lifestyle. Whereas if an otherwise normal 30ish person (who is not me) who holds a steady job and lives independently were to, say, have a picture of Cookie Monster as their Facebook profile pic (again, this hypothetical person is NOT ME) because they are known by their friends and family to really like cookies, I don't think anyone would think it odd or unusual.

I like cookies. Don't judge me. :snooty:

I like cookies too, AND Cookie Monster, though I prefer Elmo. I think for most people, if they post something immature like this you know they also do adult things, have responsibilities and more interesting things going on with their lives. But it seems so indicative of perpetual childhood in the Arndts because we KNOW that they don't act like adults in other aspects of their life, and something like this is the pinnacle of excitement for them. Though that Cookie Monster is posed a bit sexually for a fundie :D And since they don't live the rest of their lives as adults, playing with toys becomes disturbing rather than just a quirky part of a normal adults personality or a one time silly thing.

[samithemage]

Of course, an 8 year old does not have 'wisdom' but it IS her mouth and maybe the dentist understands that children are more compliant with their treatment if they feel empowered by having even a small say?

Cripes! I have encouraged my daughter to have her own questions for her dr since she was about five and able to begin to understand enough to ask questions about her health and treatments; she had a slew of them concerning puberty at her last visit. I also direct her doctors to ask HER questions like "do you have headaches?" instead of asking me. It is her head, she knows it better than I do!

I have had one of those palette expanders and they hurt like hell. I was about 13 or 14 when I had it. I was literally sobbing for hours at night after my mom would turn the key to expand it. My orthodontist specialized in pediatric orthodontia. He always listened to me and made me feel important and involved. He even ended up prescribing pain medication for me when he realized how badly I was hurting. I can't imagine going through that at 8 years old. At that age I probably would have ended up fighting and biting to avoid adjustments. A wise doctor of any sort realizes that while a child may not have the ultimate decision, a child who feels like they have some control and say will be more likely to be compliant.

[gustava]

I have had one of those palette expanders and they hurt like hell. I was about 13 or 14 when I had it. I was literally sobbing for hours at night after my mom would turn the key to expand it. My orthodontist specialized in pediatric orthodontia. He always listened to me and made me feel important and involved. He even ended up prescribing pain medication for me when he realized how badly I was hurting. I can't imagine going through that at 8 years old. At that age I probably would have ended up fighting and biting to avoid adjustments. A wise doctor of any sort realizes that while a child may not have the ultimate decision, a child who feels like they have some control and say will be more likely to be compliant.

Except that the little Maxwellians do exactly what Steve-o says and if he says they're not in pain....they're not in pain.

[johnhugh]

Paul received some belated birthday presents from Mom.

:roll: :roll:

[longskirtlotsakids]

Is this the family that has clips of boys/boymen speaking that weird, stunted made up language?

I really feel for this family when the parents pass on. Certain types of life rituals (adolescence, risk taking, social interaction) happen at certain ages because of brain activity that is unique to that age.

These men should be working full time and worrying about retirement and investing, not about taking Sesame street pics. Out of context, this pic is not a big deal. In context, knowing how the family operates, it's creeeeepy.