Defense of "modesty glasses" of ultra-orthodox in Jerusalem

[ShadowyOne]

I saw something about this recently, and then found this defense of the practice by a religion section writer in the Huffington Post (the author description reads: Elad Nehorai is a writer living in Crown Heights, Brooklyn. Five years ago, he became a religious Jew in the Chabad Hasidic community and has since written about his experience extensively, most recently in his blog Pop Chassid.) http://www.huffingtonpost.com/elad-nehorai/blurry-glasses-reveal-mainstream-hate-of-ultra-orthodox-jews_b_1759925.html

Recently, some articles have come out reporting that some Haredi or "ultra-Orthodox" Jews in Mea Shearim, the most religious area of Jerusalem, have started selling glasses that blur their owner's vision. The goal, apparently, is to help men who might be tempted by women dressed immodestly on the street from looking and seeing what they shouldn't.

But now, people who, no matter how ridiculous their methods, have chosen a path that hurts no one (except perhaps themselves), are being attacked. Mocked. Virtually spit on.

Why? Not for any good reason. They're not hurting anyone. G-d knows, it was probably one dude's idea in a shop that some journalist heard about. But even if it's more widespread than that, who cares?

Even more importantly, why do we find it so amusing? Why is the fact that men are so aware of their fallibility that they have gone out of their way to respect women suddenly seen as a bad thing?

So, all you promoters of tolerance, you left-leaning, love-loving, heart-bleeding, folks, can you answer this? Why is it OK to hate these people because they lead a different life than yours? And what is it that you find quite so objectionable and worthy of hate, mocking and anger?

Is this practice any different than the "defrauding" and "Nike" BS espoused by our own fundies? What does the Hive think?

[ShadowyOne]

Oops, the topic title should read "ultra," not "ulra.". Can't edit topic titles, I don't think, so apologies for un-correctable riffles!!!1!11!

[Beeks]

The author has got to be a complete dingbat if he doesn't understand why mainstream folks find it problematic for religious men to prefer to be visually impaired to seeing a woman. Especially given the level of hatred the ultra-religious nut jobs in Israel have shown towards women (some of them orthodox!) who don't follow their insane modesty standards. It can be downright dangerous for a woman to walk through ultra-religious neighborhoods in Israel and parts of the us, and the author of this article is so dense he can't understand why mainstream folks would find the glasses story ridiculous???

At least there are a lot of good comments on the article telling him why he's an idiot,

[dawbs]

... that they have gone out of their way to respect women suddenly seen as a bad thing?

How the hell is treating women as T&A, and ONLY as T&A, as the gateway to hell, respecting them?

THAT is what they refuse to get.

[shedemei]

I saw something about this recently, and then found this defense of the practice by a religion section writer in the Huffington Post (the author description reads: Elad Nehorai is a writer living in Crown Heights, Brooklyn. Five years ago, he became a religious Jew in the Chabad Hasidic community

There's a phenomenon in Orthodox Judaism frequently referred to as "BT syndrome." This is when a ba'al teshuva (a Jew who becomes religious) goes completely overboard when they become religious. They're frequently super-strict about everything, more so than FFB (frum from birth, always religious) Jews, sometimes to the point of pretty much inventing new ways to be super-strict. They're super-exuberant and defensive of Orthodoxy.

So my knee-jerk reaction is that this guy is suffering from unquenced BT syndrome and will apologize for every crazy thing that pops up in Orthodox Judaism, even when the majority of other Orthodox Jews think it's crazy.

[Beammeup]

How the hell is treating women as T&A, and ONLY as T&A, as the gateway to hell, respecting them?

THAT is what they refuse to get.

THIS. I am more than a temptation. I am a woman, and I should be seen.

[gravelmonkey]

I think wearing modesty glasses are an improvement over stoning women for "being immodestly dressed" because they put the burden of "modesty" back on the person who HAS the need for other people to cover their bodies. It's better than heckling 9 year olds. That being said, saying that wearing these glasses is due to respect for women is utterly false. Someone wears these glasses because they can't handle not being able to control what others wear.

Am I alone in thinking that blurred glasses would also lead to an increase in accidents and people running into each other on the sidewalk? How would you get anywhere if you can't see?

[ILoveJellybeans]

Blurred glasses are a bad idea, people are going to be walking into eachother, getting into accidents, and its probably going to mess up their vision and then they will end up needing glasses.

I remember once trying on my friend's glasses, and my vision being blurry. I cant imagine walking around like that all day, I could barely see and felt weird cause of it.

Its called self control, learn not to stare at womens boobs.

I thought modesty glasses would either be sunglasses a man could wear so he could stare at boobs without anyone noticing, or something to cover up the defrauding eyes of women who are already covered from head to toe.

[SisiL78]

I think this practice is incredibly stupid. And I'm sure it will not be adopted by many men. But, I'll give it credit for one thing. It places the responsibility on the man for not looking and at least acknowledges that some men cannot help but look. I hate the idea that women are responsible for men's thoughts/actions. There was another thread here a couple of weeks ago regarding fundies approaching someone in a supermarket and telling her that she was indecently dressed. Like WTF? You can think "wow, that's a lot of skin" but, you have the option of looking away and not being aroused by it. And having another woman yell "Nike" is unseemly IMHO. It puts a different woman in charge of a man's or boy's actions/thoughts and also is meant to embarrass publicly the object of the "Nike" yell. But, no matter how you cut it any of these things are stupid and embarrassing to other, more sane, religious people.

That being said we live in a society made up of a lot of different customs and types of dress. Men will look at modestly dressed women and think lascivious thoughts about them too. I'm sure the same can be said of women. Its time to acknowledge that we can have certain thoughts but we aren't necessarily going to act on them. G-d gave us self control and a brain, we can use those things to control our behaviors. Sex cannot be so all consuming, we have other things to do with our time too!

[deelaem]

How the hell is treating women as T&A, and ONLY as T&A, as the gateway to hell, respecting them?

THAT is what they refuse to get.

Plus Eleventy!!!!

[sparkles]

I have to wonder why, if men can't take charge of their most basic urges, they would be capable of taking charge of ANYthing. Clearly, the women are the stronger of the two sexes... :?

I can't wait until one of these men accidentally bumps into a woman because he can't see where he's going.

[Hevcoh]

I have to wonder why, if men can't take charge of their most basic urges, they would be capable of taking charge of ANYthing. Clearly, the women are the stronger of the two sexes... :?

So true!

I can't wait until one of these men accidentally bumps into a woman because he can't see where he's going.

I'm going to Jerusalem on Thursday, maybe I'll see how they actually manage getting by with these glasses. Maybe a few bumping into each other...

[Dark Matters]

Am I alone in thinking that blurred glasses would also lead to an increase in accidents and people running into each other on the sidewalk? How would you get anywhere if you can't see?

Accidents, yes and coming into physical contact with the women they are trying to avoid.

[Anxious Girl]

If men are so strong, then why do women have to steer them away from temptation by wearing conservative clothing? If they're strong, aren't they supposed to control their urges?

[shedemei]

In the world where this kind of thing would take off, sidewalks may be segregated (women on one side, men on the other) and women are careful to not bump into men.

http://failedmessiah.typepad.com/failed ... n-345.html

I want to stress again that many/most members of these communities don't go to these extremes and anyone can put up a poster.

[itsnikki05]

*sigh* I always say "If you don't like it, don't look". I don't necessarily LIKE going to Walmart and seeing a young (probably 18-ish) girl with her butt falling out her shorts... but guess what? I looked away! Problem solved!!

[FlorenceHamilton]

I think that it is a sad state of affairs in the world when more and more groups seem to think that the cause of all the troubles of the planet is that man enjoy veiwing attractive women in provacative clothing. (There is a big addistional danger in this sentence because there is such a wide intertreation of what is provocative.)

I live in Southeast Florida. There are all sorts of temptations around me a great deal of the time. There are scantily clad men who are beautifully buffed and sculpted. They are proud of their work and they dress to attract attention-either by dressing in very scanty clothing or very tight clothing. There are all sorts of fancy cars on the road....Lamborghinis, Mazzerattis, RollsRoyce and more. There are fabulous boats on the intracoastal waterway. There are even more fabulous homes which dock the boats on the waterway. I do enjoy looking at all of these things. Never do I think that I have the right touch the pretty people, or the cars, or the boats, or the homes....unless specifically invited. (which has never happened)

I am truly troubled by these religious men who think that they may rape a woman just for being attractive in his eyes. I think it is clear wh has the problem.

[rezski44]

I recently discovered my awful headaches were from eyestrain from an old glasses prescription. New lenses solved the problem. Blurry glasses can make you sick and are not healthy. The nutcases wearing blurry glasses can probably take them off and see normally which I cannot.

[fakepigtails73]

There's a phenomenon in Orthodox Judaism frequently referred to as "BT syndrome." This is when a ba'al teshuva (a Jew who becomes religious) goes completely overboard when they become religious. They're frequently super-strict about everything, more so than FFB (frum from birth, always religious) Jews, sometimes to the point of pretty much inventing new ways to be super-strict. They're super-exuberant and defensive of Orthodoxy.

So my knee-jerk reaction is that this guy is suffering from unquenced BT syndrome and will apologize for every crazy thing that pops up in Orthodox Judaism, even when the majority of other Orthodox Jews think it's crazy.

It's a bit similar to former Baptists or Pentacostal fundies that take RCIA classes and convert to Catholicism. They, more often than not, go full stop "Trad. Cath" and only go to TLM Latin Masses, daily eucharist adorations, constant readings of encyclicals from Popes older than Pius XII...They think that Vatican II is an abberation and that communion must be on the tongue exclusively, etc... They call it a "Return To Rome". Many Trad.Catholics "thinkers" nowadays are former Protestant Fundies.

[Trynn]

Don't most adults wear glasses anyway? So, then, why don't they just... take their glasses off? Then they can still have blurred vision AND save money. Problem solved!

In all seriousness, Wearing blurred glasses sounds like it would damage your eyes. I'm getting a headache just thinking about it.

[gardenvarietycitizen]

Don't most adults wear glasses anyway? So, then, why don't they just... take their glasses off? Then they can still have blurred vision AND save money. Problem solved!

Yeah but if they just take their glasses off, they won't be able to show off how pious they are by wearing the special blurry glasses.

Call me cynical but a LOT of these way out there extra chumras are about out-piousing the next guy. Same goes for a lot of the certain fundie "look" clothes over the Christian side of things too - you can be perfectly modest wearing off-the-shelf normal clothing and not stand out in a crowd, but it's important to broadcast "see how religious I am?"