Say No to Socialism

[Maul the Koala]

I was thinking maybe it was because they require a specialist, but that can't be it, because other specialists (gastroenterologists, psychiatrists, dermatologists, internists, etc.) are covered here if a doctor refers you.

There's a nice long convoluted explanation for it. It basically boils down to is it worth covering the cost or would it be more cost-effective to cut coverage and have the individual pay.

I believe, but don't quote me on this, dentists are free to set their own prices for procedures and dental work. If it became covered by the province, procedure costs would have to be standardized throughout the province. That would be a huge undertaking in itself and I'm not sure it would go over great since dentists and dental hygienists make very good money in this province. I think they'd feel threatened since they would think it'd lead to decreased salaries. I know people in dental school and some will come out with half a million dollars in debt...

I do wish dental was covered though. I have a genetic condition that requires thousands of dollars of dental work a year. It's just not possible for me to pay that amount at this time. So until I get a good job with benefits or I marry someone with a sweet healthcare plan I'm out of luck. I'm just hoping things don't get worse over the next 4ish years I'm in school.

[freejoytoo]

If you're in a first world country and people are dying of a toothache then something is seriously wrong.

[Peas n carrots]

Tacky, I am so, so sorry. I don't know what to say. It just makes me appreciate the system I have more and more every day. It pisses me off when people complain about the NHS. They should try living in the states and not being able to afford operations.

I argued with some americans about this years ago. Their arguments included long waiting lists, overcrowded hospitals and the like but it mostly boiled down to 'why should I have to pay for someone else? It's not MY problem they're sick.' The selfishness just astounded and appalled me.

DH is British and due to a birth defect spent a good part of his childhood with NHS doctors and in hospitals in Britain. At work recently, someone was trying to tell HIM that the NHS has long waits, poor facilities and poor treatment. DH was refuting every point this person made, and finally the other person got frustrated and announced out loud that DH is a socialist. It's Iike people in the US want to believe that its horrible elsewhere to justify their misconceptions of Obamacare.

Speaking of which, we recently found out that DH will likely need more procedures in relation to his birth defect...lithe out of pocket cost will likely be what we would put as a down payment on a house. We are seriously considering moving back to the UK now, in part due to the high costs of. The surgeries in the US. I have decent insurance yet they only cover up to 60% after the deductible.

[Lainey]

If you're in a first world country and people are dying of a toothache then something is seriously wrong.

I agree! Is dental covered in Britain? Eye care? Ambulance rides? (They're not covered here, and I was a bit worried about that but my husband says his work will cover it). Maybe I should move to Britain, haha. Seriously, though, I think socialism is a wonderful thing, and the way the world should be.

MtK, you are right; dentists set their own prices and would probably be upset if that changed.

ETA: Now, see I wish MtK could get the dental that she needs, and not have to worry about it. I wish Peas and carrots's husband could get the operation he needs without having to worry about it, and without having to uproot their lives and move overseas in order to get it. I wish emmiedahl hadn't had to suffer through a gallbladder attack, and now just hope it doesn't happen again, because she already had too many medical bills. I can't even fathom the mindset of a person who WOULDN'T want these things for a fellow human being. Even if it means everyone's taxes are a little higher.

[freejoytoo]

Eye care isn't covered and it's hard to find NHS dentistis now. I think it's still free for children to go the dentist and have their eyes checked but it might depend. Ambulance rides are free. Prescriptions are covered in Scotland and Wales, but not in England (damn!) but contraception is completely free.

[Minerva]

Wow Lainey, I hope your husband recovers quickly.

On the topic of things that aren't covered by OHIP and the other provinces' equivalents. I'm seeing my older relatives forego dental care because they made the mistake of retiring and thus losing their coverage. When my university's mental health department decided they couldn't handle my case, my parents' insurance only covered 2 visits to the psychologist they referred me to (and his fees were below average). Had I had military coverage (accidentally found this out while looking into my parents' insurance plan) it would have covered 10 visits, which still isn't much (especially considering the type of psychological care often needed by folks in the military - I would hope there's special coverage for soldiers at least). Anyway, I had to pay out of pocket and while the therapy helped I could only go for a couple more visits so I never got the full benefit. I've got a co-worker who's staying with a husband she doesn't like because she needs the dental coverage. None of this is life or death, but it's a bit scary when you realize that whether you can access certain types of healthcare is dependant on your bank account balance.

Canadian insurance companies can be irritatingly stingy, but they're nothing like the nightmare they are in the States. For one thing, I had never heard the term "pre-existing condition" before I started following American politics. Perhaps it's because they're better regulated here?

ETA oh yeah, and ambulance rides. My family has had to pay for them out of pocket, for some reason. Though when they call you with the bill, they'll drop it if your situation is dire. I'm pretty sure it's through the hospitals, so maybe that's why they have leeway. Still, when I lived on campus, I saw people tough it through really bad alcohol poisoning because they couldn't afford an ambulance (clutch your pearls if you want, but it's an easy mistake to make when you're 18).

[Lainey]

Minerva, I don't know about Ontario, but Alberta Health covers a psychiatrist if a doctor refers you (and then the psychiatrist gets you into whatever therapy you need, all for free). I didn't know about it--it's definitely not common knowledge!--but I would think Ontario would have something similar. Also, I told a different doctor I didn't like my therapist, so he got me a student doing her practicum that I liked much better, again for free. And this was outside the mental health care system that my psychiatrist is part of. I am not sure what you need (my problem is depression and some anxiety), but I would look into it, if I were you, and see if there's something similar.

And thanks about my husband. :). He's doing okay, considering.

[ElphabaGalinda]

Minerva, I don't know about Ontario, but Alberta Health covers a psychiatrist if a doctor refers you (and then the psychiatrist gets you into whatever therapy you need, all for free). I didn't know about it--it's definitely not common knowledge!--but I would think Ontario would have something similar. Also, I told a different doctor I didn't like my therapist, so he got me a student doing her practicum that I liked much better, again for free. And this was outside the mental health care system that my psychiatrist is part of. I am not sure what you need (my problem is depression and some anxiety), but I would look into it, if I were you, and see if there's something similar.

And thanks about my husband. :). He's doing okay, considering.

Ontario covers a psychiatrist if a doctor refers you as well, and then the psychiatrist gives you whatever you need for free. They wouldn't cover a psychologist i think because they don't go to med school? But I hated the psychiatrist my doctor refered me to, so I just asked her to refer me to a new one and she did who is much better. Go to your GP and ask to be refered.

I'm glad your husband is doing ok Lainey.

[Minerva]

Ontario covers a psychiatrist if a doctor refers you as well, and then the psychiatrist gives you whatever you need for free. They wouldn't cover a psychologist i think because they don't go to med school? But I hated the psychiatrist my doctor refered me to, so I just asked her to refer me to a new one and she did who is much better. Go to your GP and ask to be refered.

I'm glad your husband is doing ok Lainey.

For some reason they won't refer me to a psychiatrist unless they think I need medication. I'm now seeing a counsellor for free through the university. She's got a degree in psychology, and her therapy is similar to what the guy I paid for used, so I kinda wished I'd just asked for someone within the university to start with. They didn't want to do that at the time because my main issue was controlling compulsive behaviours that were worrying my dentist. I re-entered the system with a related but simpler problem and there was not a single hoop to jump through (just a ridiculously long wait because anything funded by my cheapskate university is going to be understaffed).

[Austin]

I think I have what is considered pretty decent health insurance. It's through Aetna. They will pay for one well-care visit and some screening tests every year, such as a pap smear, mammogram, etc.

But god forbid if those tests show anything, because then I have to go into my pocket until my $2K deductible is met. I recently had a mammogram that was flagged as the radiologist thought he saw an asymmetry. So I had to go back and do an MRI. It showed nothing. I will pay for that, plus the radiologists fee, completely out of pocket, and I expect the bill to be well over $1K.

My husband lost some weight and was feeling a bit off so our doctor ordered a thyroid test and some kidney function tests, as he's already been diagnosed with hypothyroidism. That test came back fine, too, but will probably result in a $400-$500 laboratory bill. The good news is if one of us needs one more thing this year, we will probably hit the $2K mark and then we will be covered after that. Except that the clock starts over in January. :roll:

This is on top of what we pay in premiums a month (not cheap!), and co-pays and co-insurance. So you can have pretty "decent" health insurance in the USA and still have the kind of out-of-pocket costs that would be crippling to many budgets.

And I guarantee, I will start getting calls from the medical billing department before I even receive the bill, let alone have a chance to pay it. Always happens. They are fucking vultures, and anybody who thinks you just "work out a deal" with them is smoking crack.

Yeah, it's all just great. I say, "Show me the socialism!"

[ElphabaGalinda]

For some reason they won't refer me to a psychiatrist unless they think I need medication. I'm now seeing a counsellor for free through the university. She's got a degree in psychology, and her therapy is similar to what the guy I paid for used, so I kinda wished I'd just asked for someone within the university to start with. They didn't want to do that at the time because my main issue was controlling compulsive behaviours that were worrying my dentist. I re-entered the system with a related but simpler problem and there was not a single hoop to jump through (just a ridiculously long wait because anything funded by my cheapskate university is going to be understaffed).

I found seeing one of my university counselors very helpful. I just had to ask for a referal and got it, maybe it depends how the individual GP feels...mine trusted me to know what I needed I guess. But use your university resources as much as possible because they are great.

[Sunnichick31]

First off, Lainey I hope your husband recovers quickly!

Health insurance in this country is so messed up. My mother's boss changed the company insurance plan without informing the employees first, and now mom has a $5000 deductable which is rediculously high. She just found out that she has a porcelin gallbladder and needs to have it taken out, but she can't afford it even with insurance. That is such BULLSHIT. She's got insurance. SHe should be able to get healthcare.

(if you guys could keep her and Lainey's husband in your prayers it'd be appriciated.)

[Lainey]

First off, Lainey I hope your husband recovers quickly!

Health insurance in this country is so messed up. My mother's boss changed the company insurance plan without informing the employees first, and now mom has a $5000 deductable which is rediculously high. She just found out that she has a porcelin gallbladder and needs to have it taken out, but she can't afford it even with insurance. That is such BULLSHIT. She's got insurance. SHe should be able to get healthcare.

(if you guys could keep her and Lainey's husband in your prayers it'd be appriciated.)

Aw, thank you, Sunnichick. He'll be all right. He's snoring away at the moment. I'm so sorry about your mom. It makes me so angry to hear stories like these! I wish there was something I could do. :(

[fakepigtails73]

These people have no idea what socialized healthcare really is. No one is forcing treatment on you. You have the right to refuse any treatment you want. But when you're sick, you don't need to worry about what it costs because it's free regardless of age, pre existing conditions or income. Fundies, who are generally too poor, should be the ones that want this most. They're just too uneducated to realize what it is. I'm so happy to live in Canada because of teh healthcare among other things. Funny, the Canadian fundies aren't really known for complaining about the "socialist" system. I guess because since they know what it really is they can't use myths and scare tactics.

You got that right! I wouldn't trade my "carte soleil" (my provincial health care card) for the US health care at all.

Granted, sometimes hospital halls are in need of a mop and some Mr Net, we have long wait times for certain procedures and, last but not least for a big lot of people here finding a family doctor that will take you as a new patient is impossible. I'm "lucky" to have a condition in that I have to go to the hospital for check-ups 4 times a year so I get to also see a family doctor there once a year. If I didn't have that I'd be shit out of luck.

Many med. school graduates leave to practice in the western provinces or in the states; their choice, although it sucks for us. If I was Qc's Prime Minister I'd have some ideas as to deal with that...

I used to be engaged to an American and he loved his US health care. We'd have long debates over our respective countries' systems. He was lucky that his health was fine and that he was covered under his Air Force Dad's plan until 25...

No one should be forced to declare bankrupcy or live in his car because he got cancer and has the audacity to want to treat it!

[jenny_islander]

First off, Lainey I hope your husband recovers quickly!

Health insurance in this country is so messed up. My mother's boss changed the company insurance plan without informing the employees first, and now mom has a $5000 deductable which is rediculously high. She just found out that she has a porcelin gallbladder and needs to have it taken out, but she can't afford it even with insurance. That is such BULLSHIT. She's got insurance. SHe should be able to get healthcare.

(if you guys could keep her and Lainey's husband in your prayers it'd be appriciated.)

We had a lesser issue in that vein--when we started trying for baby no. 3, my husband switched back up to the top-tier plan through his employer. This plan cost more per month, but the deductibles were lower, the co-pays were lower, and the lifetime caps were higher. That way, if something went wrong, we would have the least chance of going bankrupt in order to save the baby and/or me. We paid and we paid and we paid and we paid, and then the employer canceled the top-tier plan and put everybody on the lower tier: lower premiums, higher deductibles, higher co-pays, lower lifetime caps. Did we get a refund for the money we had poured into the top-tier plan that fiscal year, without having used a penny of the insurance benefits yet? Teehee, of course not, silly employee! :x

[Buzzard]

Reviving an old thread rather than starting a new one because the title is pretty much what I'd call this new "venture"

Our good friend scamaritan ministries is backing a new "film" called "wait till its free." It aims to expose teh ebils of socialized medical care, obamacare, and why their way is the right way

wtifree.com

Of additional note, on the main page they are claiming that anyone who joins their "program" is exempt from the health insurance mandates because of the religious exemption. I'm not so sure thats accurate.

samaritanministries.org/healthreform

edited because I didnt break the link right.

[Wolfie]

At the very absolute least, we should have national health care coverage for:

1. Prevention and treatment of contagious illness. Because you don't have an economy if you don't have people working.

2. Prevention and treatment of conditions that are likely to render the sufferer unable to work, so that the patient has a better chance of rejoining the workforce and escaping dependence on government aid.

3. Everything the very young and the very old need to be as healthy as possible, because making their relatives pay for it can drag an entire family into poverty with ensuing dependence on government aid.

4. Anything that can kill a person, no matter what it is or who they are, because the right to life is right in the constitution!

But you know that all that modern medicine, like vaccines, is just out there to sterilize you and let the government control your brain. You can keep yourself healthier if you only eat the right foods.... :roll:

[SamuraiKatz]

Reviving an old thread rather than starting a new one because the title is pretty much what I'd call this new "venture"

Our good friend scamaritan ministries is backing a new "film" called "wait till its free." It aims to expose teh ebils of socialized medical care, obamacare, and why their way is the right way

wtifree.com

Of additional note, on the main page they are claiming that anyone who joins their "program" is exempt from the health insurance mandates because of the religious exemption. I'm not so sure thats accurate.

samaritanministries.org/healthreform

edited because I didnt break the link right.

Wow..that was all kinds of disingenuous.

[Buzzard]

http://www.christianpost.com/news/relig ... ate-89189/

I'm pretty sure that scamaritan ministries will NOT qualify as insurance nor satisfy the requirements of being insured. Nondenominational christian fear monger isnt a recognized class exempted from social security...

[smiley mcgee]

...The worst part? My parents can't even see past what Fox News. There is no reasoning with people who are hit with right wing propoganda day in and day out. It's horrifying and I'm really sick of the people who are calling it "socialism" in a tone that "socialism is bad" when I know that they don't know the first thing about what it actually is. If my parents (who are actually sometimes intelligent) can fall for it, what about people who don't have any college education, or don't ever read anything? Yet they are still posting regurgitated fox news talking points on facebook.

:(

This is a quote from page 2 of this thread and it perfectly describes the way my in-laws think. My MIL was at our house today and said that she should enjoy her insurance while they have it because once Obamacare takes affect, they'll be uninsurable for pre-existing conditions.. I said I don't think that's right because the affordable care act is making it to where they have to cover you, regardless of pre-existing conditions. Then she said it won't matter because they'll be old enough to be sent to a death panel where IRS agents will do some kind of cost analysis to determine if they're worthy of treatment (and basically if you're old, you'll be denied because you're not worth much to the economy.) I politely asked what her sources were and she couldn't give me any. Is there any way to talk to people who think like this? Would it be rude to forward her actual info on it, even though she'll dismiss it as part of some socialist conspiracy? Has anyone successfully talked some sense into these people or would my time be better spent banging my head against the wall?

[Buzzard]

Definitely easier to bang your head against the wall. Just tell her she should go to her doctor and ask if they can set her up with the death panel now. Its first come first served, if she signs up early she'll get a "good one."

You read it on the internet. You have a source.

[nelliebelle1197]

This is a quote from page 2 of this thread and it perfectly describes the way my in-laws think. My MIL was at our house today and said that she should enjoy her insurance while they have it because once Obamacare takes affect, they'll be uninsurable for pre-existing conditions.. I said I don't think that's right because the affordable care act is making it to where they have to cover you, regardless of pre-existing conditions. Then she said it won't matter because they'll be old enough to be sent to a death panel where IRS agents will do some kind of cost analysis to determine if they're worthy of treatment (and basically if you're old, you'll be denied because you're not worth much to the economy.) I politely asked what her sources were and she couldn't give me any. Is there any way to talk to people who think like this? Would it be rude to forward her actual info on it, even though she'll dismiss it as part of some socialist conspiracy? Has anyone successfully talked some sense into these people or would my time be better spent banging my head against the wall?

My New Zealander in laws were terrified to visit us because of our healthcare system. I have my kids listed in the NZ healthcare rolls as "returning residents" - we visit once a year- thanks to a nice doctor because I fear something happening healthwise to them. One reason my husband keeps his NZ and Irish passports is to make sure we have options in case of medical issues.

[smiley mcgee]

Definitely easier to bang your head against the wall. Just tell her she should go to her doctor and ask if they can set her up with the death panel now. Its first come first served, if she signs up early she'll get a "good one."

You read it on the internet. You have a source.

I'll be sure to bring this up at the next family get together. Maybe the whole crazy bunch can go together to talk each other up and plead their case. If it doesn't go well, at least they can all go out together shaking their fists at 'the man' and reminiscing about the days when their pre-existing conditions (of which there are a heaping handful) would have ended them instead of the gubment. Don't want the gubment doing something for you that you can do yourself :lol: Thanks for a good laugh! I needed one.

[Coconut Flan]

A friend and I spent Friday night trying to beat sense into a rightwingnut, Faux News quoting mutual friend who we love until she talks religion or politics. She was on an illegal immigrant kick Friday night and started heading into health insurance. Really there is very little reasoning with them. The funniest thing she said was that "the government" was illegally issuing pink striped driving licenses. We were both yeah and where is that besides some faux newscaster's imagination?

[smiley mcgee]

A friend and I spent Friday night trying to beat sense into a rightwingnut, Faux News quoting mutual friend who we love until she talks religion or politics. She was on an illegal immigrant kick Friday night and started heading into health insurance. Really there is very little reasoning with them. The funniest thing she said was that "the government" was illegally issuing pink striped driving licenses. We were both yeah and where is that besides some faux newscaster's imagination?

She's probably thinking of this: thedenverchannel.com/news/u-s-world/north-carolina-will-give-some-undocumented-immigrants-drivers-licenses-with-pink-stripe