What is so great about public schooling?

[Deleted07]

Let say an interesting article I came across while googling. :roll:

ladyofvirtue.blogspot.com/2012/03/what-is-so-good-about-public-schooling.html

Its quite long, but ultimately it comes down to public school = bad, homeschooling = good!

These are her main argument points:

Children learn a lot in school, to be sure.

They learn to become insensitive, tough and hopeless.

They learn to think of their parents as outsiders that are out of step--even controlling.

If they are taught about God at all, He is merely an afterthought; He has absolutely nothing to do with art, literature, math, science, history or any other area of study.

They soon learn that friends are more important than anything else in life, including familial ties or personal moral convictions.

They learn that serious relationships are quite disposable.

That despondency is unavoidable in a cold, vain, material world.

They wind up "searing their own consciences" in a desperate attempt at personal fulfillment through countless shopping sprees (materialism), by "self-medicating" through the use of recreational drugs and alcoholic binging and abuse or via a never-ending pursuit of mind-numbing video gaming.

:shock:

Schooling teaches parents a number of things.

Parents learn that bright, sweet pre-schoolers must indeed turn into sullen, disagreeable mischief-makers by the tender ages of 9 and 11.

Good parents are those who go along with everything the school advocates to their families. Evening fellowship time must be taken up by homework. Vacations are subject to the school schedule, no matter how extraordinary the opportunity. Dad and Mom learn they are under secret surveillance by their youngsters, who are taught to become informers of any parental "misbehavior".

The family paycheck must be spent on the newest fashions, fads and trinkets, even though they will end up in next year's trash heap, they must be purchased or their children will be subject to sanctioning by "the pack".

No matter how long they have lived, or how much they may have learned, or especially how dearly they love their precious children and have their best interests at heart, fathers and mothers must submit and take their place as irrelevant buffoons (or even malevolent abusers) when their advice is compared to that of the public school teachers, counselors, administrators and social-workers.

In the end, parents learn the lesson that children are expensive, unpleasant nuisances.

:? Can't wait to hear your opinions on this "gem" of a post. 8-)

[lilah]

SODRT education teaches children that

Dinosaurs were man's bff

If a historical person wasn't a Christian they were by default a dirthy heathen

The only thing you need to know about the solar system is the planet song

Creation museum is scientifically accurate

Parents learn

Once your girl child is old enough to change a diaper and cook dinner for you her education is mostly complete

Youcan take your entire family on a field trip intended for a 5 year old and not bother challenging the intellect of their teenage siblings

[merrily]

I'll rather live in a cold vain and materialistic world than a fundie one.

[Sola]

Strange, my kids never learned those things.

And my 11 year old is still a bright, sweet girl. Neither of my kids are expensive, unpleasant nuisances, although I will say that my daughter's farts and my son's feet are pretty unpleasant at times.

Is there something put into the water in the USA that brings out the paranoia or what?

[Sumeri]

Oh, sweet Christ on a cracker, where can I even start.

All 4 of my kids were, or still are, in the public schools. Let's see.

They have learned that the world contains people of all shapes, sizes and colors.

They have learned that there are other caring adults in said world, not just mom and dad.

They have learned how to help people less fortunate than themselves, via volunteerism.

They have learned to navigate the working world.

They have had opportunities (first to come to mind, youngest son is preparing for a trip to Costa Rica in the spring) that our family wouldn't have been able to provide otherwise.

Two of our children have received specialized help for learning challenges/speech difficulties - all free of charge.

They have learned different languages.

They all have made great friends that I am positive will be there for their entire lives.

They have all received a wonderful education.

I also have to laugh at this bloggers emphasis on materialism. For shopping options our town has a KMart and a "ladies shop" that specializes in things like pleated polyester pants and appliqued sweatshirts. My kids aren't rushing out to the shops with their friends.

[GeoBQn]

They learn to think of their parents as outsiders that are out of step--even controlling.

Good parents are those who go along with everything the school advocates to their families. Evening fellowship time must be taken up by homework. Vacations are subject to the school schedule, no matter how extraordinary the opportunity. Dad and Mom learn they are under secret surveillance by their youngsters, who are taught to become informers of any parental "misbehavior".

No matter how long they have lived, or how much they may have learned, or especially how dearly they love their precious children and have their best interests at heart, fathers and mothers must submit and take their place as irrelevant buffoons (or even malevolent abusers) when their advice is compared to that of the public school teachers, counselors, administrators and social-workers.

Methinks one of Lady of Virtue's like-minded friends was reported to child services after his child "informed" on him by showing up to school with bruises.

[merrily]

Methinks one of Lady of Virtue's like-minded friends was reported to child services after his child "informed" on him by showing up to school with bruises.

"Have their best interests at heart", like the witch in Rapunzel, she had Rapunzel's bests interests at heart too :roll:

[luckystone]

I don't even understand why people try and make these generalisations anyway. I see public/private debate a lot on boards. People forget not all public/private schools are created equal. Same with homeschools. I've attended four schools and they were all vastly different anyway. I think there are some truly crap and dangerous public schools out there but that doesn't mean they are all bad and you keep your child at home.

[tacky]

I don't understand the need to demonize public schools. If you're happy with your choice, then be happy and move on.

[merrily]

I've attended six. I think it depends on the district and state you live in. Usually public schools near universities are alright.

[Sumeri]

I don't even understand why people try and make these generalisations anyway. I see public/private debate a lot on boards. People forget not all public/private schools are created equal. Same with homeschools. I've attended four schools and they were all vastly different anyway. I think there are some truly crap and dangerous public schools out there but that doesn't mean they are all bad and you keep your child at home.

I also think that many of these people think that those of us who choose public education drop our kids off in the morning and that's the extent of our involvement in our children's education.

I read with my kids. We make very good use of our public library. I help (whenever possible - they are often years ahead of my comprehension) with homework. I make sure we all touch base over dinner, where we talk about our days and things that are going on in the world. I make sure they have access to classes and various learning opportunities outside of school hours. I have their friends over to our house, often, so that I can see what's happening from that end -- although that is really more because I truly enjoy having other kids around. I make sure that all of them, male and female, know the basics of housekeeping, cooking, making a budget...real life skills that they will need when they've left the nest.

We've been in fabulous school districts, and others that are very bare bones. My kids have thrived in all of them.

[FlorenceHamilton]

Sumeri, You make the most important point of all. The fact is that education happens every day, all day and throughout a perso's lifetime. There is a role for Public School in the lives of most children in their education. Children from wealthier backgrounds may get a good part of these basic academic subjects from private schools. None of this means that parents do not also teach their children at home.

Somewhere along the line, a very black and white sort of thinking developed from both sides of the aisle on this issue. The fact is that education is more complex and beautiful than that. Parents need to be actively involved in the education of their children from the day they are born. We must, as parents teach our children to love to learn and encourage them to think in every situation that presents itelf. Then we use the best tools we have to present learning and thinking situations. We do this when we take our children to the park, a museum, an amusment park, to school, to religious service, to a doctor's appointment, to family gatherings, to music lessons and so on.

Children thrive and learn in a multitude of environments and as parents, we need to provide those environments for our children and remain involved no matter which option is perating at that given moment.

Also, why is it such a terrible thing for children to go through phases of life where they are rebellious, unhappy or surly? These are a part of life. Children need to be allowed to embrace these emotions and we need to coach them through these times to help them think critically, gain insight and learn coping strategies for the entire spectrum of the human experience.

[Deleted07]

I went to Catholic school, and was a shy anti-social thing and very judgmental too, which is something I still struggle with, because of my sheltered upbringing. When I left home at 17 I quickly realized how much I had missed out on and that my behavior was not doing me any favors.

I had to changed my ways and thought process, because it brought me nothing, and, made me a very lonely, depressed person indeed who couldn't relate to anyone!

I can only imagine it's this state of mind and mentality that many homeschoolers also place on their children!

In contrast, when I visited my sister a few months back, (who left when she was 16 because she got pregnant-which was a big deal in our family). I was thoroughly impressed at how her two children now 12 and 10, could hold conservation with me and were all around such happy, bright, kind children, because, she purposely chose to go in a complete different direction with her parenting, schooling and life after our experiences! Did I mention they are public schooled? They have hobbies and friends outside of their parents too! But they certainly don't spend their time shopping or gaming either.

I think its stupid that many of these homeschoolers go from one extreme to another!

There is a happy medium!

You can't tell me that sheltering a young person so much, is good for them. Ultimately you are leading a child to be an ADULT. You WANT them to be independent person capable of handling different situations and people. You DON'T want them to be a judgmental small minded bigot who can't function in society nor relate to anyone outside of the cage you have created!

I also, highly disagree that public school teaches children to be insensitive, tough or hopeless nor cold, vain and materialistic. If anything I would put these words onto a homeschooler before a public schooled person, any day from what I have gone through and seen. And thats my two cents! :P

[Jezebel Duggar]

In the end, parents learn the lesson that children are expensive, unpleasant nuisances.

So, if your children don't believe everything you do they are expensive, unpleasant nuisances?

My only child is an adult now. She went to public student, and is (gasp) gay! She is still by far the best thing that ever happened to me and the love of my life. She also loves and respects me. Maybe that's because I respect her opinion even when it does not agree with mine, and I allowed her to be her own person.

[lilwriter85]

I also think that many of these people think that those of us who choose public education drop our kids off in the morning and that's the extent of our involvement in our children's education.

I read with my kids. We make very good use of our public library. I help (whenever possible - they are often years ahead of my comprehension) with homework. I make sure we all touch base over dinner, where we talk about our days and things that are going on in the world. I make sure they have access to classes and various learning opportunities outside of school hours. I have their friends over to our house, often, so that I can see what's happening from that end -- although that is really more because I truly enjoy having other kids around. I make sure that all of them, male and female, know the basics of housekeeping, cooking, making a budget...real life skills that they will need when they've left the nest.

We've been in fabulous school districts, and others that are very bare bones. My kids have thrived in all of them.

I have seen the attitude towards public school parents quite a bit. It is annoying. I attended public school, and may parents were involved as much as they could. They read with me and they helped me quite a bit during my elementary years. When I had a few difficulties with math in middle school, they found a tutor for me.

[twin2]

From Kendull today:

Short but profound

“If your children know Saxon Math better than the Proverbs, they are not being properly educated.†-Kevin Swanson

:doh:

Of course this is from the same women who takes glee in the fact she is not raising brain surgeons.

So what does SOTDRT teach kids. That if your mother is a selfish idiot, you are screwed.

[lilwriter85]

I was annoyed with below quote.

Public schooling has developed into just such an "animal". It has become untouchable, no matter how dreadful the system with its lack of moral principles truly is; regardless of the many school shootings, the bullying or even the scandalous s*xual exploits between teachers and their adolescent students.

Yes, those things happen in some schools. There are some public schools, where bullying doesn't happen a lot. Bullying can happen anywhere and at any stage of life. The shootings that have happened in some schools weren't because of the school systems. I have a cousin who lived in Littleton, Colorado, when the Columbine shootings happened. That school was praised quite a bit prior to the shooting and it still is considered to be one of the better public schools in the Denver suburbs. At the time of the shootings, my cousin's two daughters from his first wife were 13 and 17. His ex-wife had custody of the girls and they attended some of the worst public schools in Denver. My cousin had tried a few times to get custody of the girls because he wanted them to attend the Littleton schools. After the shootings happened, a couple of people told him that he should be lucky that he didn't get custody of the girls years before, because the older one would have been at Columbine that day. My cousin was annoyed and he has told many people that shootings could happen anywhere. He also told a lot of people, that he still wishes he would have gotten custody of his daughters because he wanted them to attend the Littleton schools.

[CanadianHippie]

Well fuck, so my schooling did fail me... I never learned any of those things.

[Eoywin]

My husband and I have been talking about schooling quite a bit since our daughter is going to be starting preschool soon. We both agree that public school is the way to go. We are probably going to have her go to kindergarten at our church but after that it will be public school.

Both of us went to public school and it didn't harm us. I was bullied in school but I don't think private school or homeschooling would have been any better for me. I think homeschooling would have done more damage because I was really shy.

[gardenvarietycitizen]

I think deep down some of them still worry that they're cheating their kids out of a good education because they know that Mom and Dad don't have education in some certain area (and they're at the SOTDRT, not willing to remedy the problem with a tutor or heaven forbid a class, or anything). So many of them start out believing the kool-aid that ALL homeschooled kids are smarter than ALL public schooled kids, can do all of school in less time, are more inventive, and will outperform those poor idiots down at the public school.

But then it turns out, well... not like that. In a lot of overworked cases, things really slide in late elementary school even.Then the one refuge is, "well, my kid at least isn't tainted with terrible popular culture! He's not involved with social workers and not getting shot up daily by Other kids with guns!"

Obviously it's anecdotal evidence from me too but it just seems most of the more... reasonable homeschoolers aren't constantly out there bashing the public schools as if they're all equivalent to the worst story they ever heard on the news.

I can't help but be reminded of the one sad homeschooling story linked here where the girl says things were good through about mid-elementary, but when she hit 12 basically all schooling stopped for her and she was supposed to instead help her younger siblings with their lower-grades education, without time for her own studies, and her parents were angsty and wondering why she didn't turn out be that "outperforms all those lazy public school kids" wunderkind. So they too started saying, well, yes, but she's sheltered!

From the other side, kids at very competitive public schools (or private or home schools for that matter) just give that argument some side-eye as they pass along on their way to their futures, y'know? Similar to the whole "culture war" thing it seems people only really care about it at all on the one side. Everyone else is just busy moving on.

[JesusFightClub]

My opinion can be summed up as WTF.

I had to translate "public" as "state" in my head. In the state primary I was at for years we had religious assembly all the time and Nativity plays which the Muslims, Hindus and kids from Chinese backgrounds were in too. We also had a "pretend you were living in Jesus's time" event. Then I went to a private school for a few years where we started off the day with chapel and had a Scripture class every day. Then I returned to state secondary (high) school, we had teachers who believed everything, devout Catholics, devout Scottish nationalists, members of the Communist Party, evangelical Christians. And religious assembly every week.

The quality of the education varied widely but easily the worst was the private school. Unless you wanted to be taught Bible verses and sing "I Vow To Thee My Country" every day and little else. There were a couple of excellent teachers but most of them were practically phoning the lessons in.

My dad never went to university (he left school at 14 to work in a factory) and felt he couldn't homeschool. My mum did go to university and she thought about homeschooling me. But while I love my mum dearly she has a hell of a temper and we decided against it.

I'm opposed to private schools (it helps having been to one, where you get the full "glory") but at no place was I taught to hate my parents and report them to the authorities. Either US state schools are bizarre or this is an utter load of old shite. Know which one I'm betting on.

[javafriend]

My kids attended public school and are nothing like the description given above. They didn't learn to do drugs, diss their parents or place too much emphasis on material things. They did learn a great deal about diversity and acceptance. More than 50 percent of the students in their high school qualified for free lunch, the fastest growing segment of the school population is Spanish-speaking and white students are in the minority. Thanks to a very strong emphasis on social justice, excellent faculty and thoughtful administrators (including several who are gay!!!) this school is doing great things for all their students.

I wish the people who complain about public schools so much would make a committment to volunteer regularly in a local school. Our high school has over 100 community members who come in once/week for an hour to mentor a young person. Many of these matches, made in late elementary or early middle school, last through high school graduation. Funny thing about these mentors - not only do 99% of them say they really enjoy spending time with their student, most of them also say that they have much more understanding and appreciation for their local schools and the challenges they face. I really wish this kind of volunteer experience was a requirement for politicians, too!

[Glass Cowcatcher]

I wish the people who complain about public schools so much would make a committment to volunteer regularly in a local school. Our high school has over 100 community members who come in once/week for an hour to mentor a young person. Many of these matches, made in late elementary or early middle school, last through high school graduation. Funny thing about these mentors - not only do 99% of them say they really enjoy spending time with their student, most of them also say that they have much more understanding and appreciation for their local schools and the challenges they face. I really wish this kind of volunteer experience was a requirement for politicians, too!

This.

This is why I think the homeschooling movement is arrogant and elitist as fuck. A VERY small percentage of parents have the financial and educational resources to homeschool properly. They want to take away every possible resource from public schools and oppose attempts to improve them (because when you do that, homeschooling simply isn't needed, dontcha know?). They don't get that the majority of students will go to public schools, and don't seem to give a damn about them.

[jenny_islander]

Oh, sweet Christ on a cracker, where can I even start.

All 4 of my kids were, or still are, in the public schools. Let's see.

They have learned that the world contains people of all shapes, sizes and colors.

They have learned that there are other caring adults in said world, not just mom and dad.

They have learned how to help people less fortunate than themselves, via volunteerism.

They have learned to navigate the working world.

They have had opportunities (first to come to mind, youngest son is preparing for a trip to Costa Rica in the spring) that our family wouldn't have been able to provide otherwise.

Two of our children have received specialized help for learning challenges/speech difficulties - all free of charge.

They have learned different languages.

They all have made great friends that I am positive will be there for their entire lives.

They have all received a wonderful education.

I also have to laugh at this bloggers emphasis on materialism. For shopping options our town has a KMart and a "ladies shop" that specializes in things like pleated polyester pants and appliqued sweatshirts. My kids aren't rushing out to the shops with their friends.

If it weren't for No Child Left Behind, understaffing, and the decrepit state of our local school buildings, I would have my kids in PS for these reasons. Luckily I can enroll them as, essentially, off-campus students and have access to specialized help and all the rest of the good without the bad.

The solution isn't to gut public schools, dammit! It's to gut NCLB and take funding away from our multiple(?!) bloody little wars and earmark it for decreasing class sizes and renovating or replacing school buildings across America. But that would involve admitting that we exist in a community full of people who are not just like us or just like each other, and that this community has to work together to take care of the community's needs. And that flies right in the face of the fundamentalists' deep need to believe that everybody else is in a huge conspiracy against them.

[Sumeri]

I'm sorry I keep returning to this thread, obviously it struck a nerve. Here is another thing I am sick to death of hearing:

Parents learn that bright, sweet pre-schoolers must indeed turn into sullen, disagreeable mischief-makers by the tender ages of 9 and 11.

I mean. What. the. FUCK. I love teenagers. I love having them around. My son's friends - male and female - spend a great deal of time at my house (ages 17-18) and I would rather spend time with them then just about anyone. Teenagers are a riot! Their ideas and energy are completely refreshing. And yes, I know, in fundieland the age I just mentioned may as well be an adult, but my kids' friends have ALWAYS come over. If they were ever sullen it was for good reason, and their "mischief making" was always totally appropriate and funny. I wonder if any of these yahoos have ever spent any time in the company of an average teen.