Hammond Pastor Dismissed For Improper Relationship

[nolongerIFBx]

This is a big one. IFBxers joke that FBC is their Mecca. Jack Hyles, Schaap's FIL, is the most recognized name in IFBdom.

If the comments are true, like Tina, this girl had been sexually abused in the past. Did that somehow make their rapists rationalize their actions. The girl's already "dirty" so it's really okay? It's not like I'm taking their virginity?? Uugh.

HAMMOND, Ind. (CBS) – The longtime pastor of a northwest Indiana church has been dismissed due to an “improper relationship with a young woman.â€

Dr. Jack Schaap, who has been pastor of First Baptist Church in Hammond for 11 years, was removed Tuesday, according to a church spokesman.

The spokesman would not provide the woman’s age, but said she was a member of the church.

A former member of First Baptist and now founder of a Facebook site for former First Baptist members, Trisha Kee, says her group has received information about Pastor Schaap.

“Jack Schapp had left his cell phone on the pulpit and a deacon had seen it on the pulpit and had picked it up to bring it back to him,†Kee said. “From what we understand, the deacon then saw a text come through from a teenage girl in the church, and it was a picture of Jack Schaap and this girl making out.â€

Kee says she understands the girl had been going to Schaap for counseling, and she says another young woman has also come forward.

“She was also going to him for counseling,†Kee said.

A church spokesman could not confirm Kee’s information, but he did say Schaap was in an improper relationship with a young woman and that they thought she was above the age of consent.

In a written statement, the church spokesman, Eddie Wilson, added that Schaap was removed “due to a sin that has caused him to forfeit his right to be our pastor.â€

“Our church grieves over the need to take this action and the impact it will have on our peopleâ€, Wilson added. “We ask that everyone pray for the families involved, and pray that the situation will be handled in a Christ honoring manner. We look forward to the days ahead as we continue to service the needs of our surrounding community and the Chicago area.â€

Lake County Sheriff John Buncich said his department was notified by church leaders of allegations that are sexual in nature. CBS 2′s Brad Edwards was told that, when confronted, Schaap admitted to his sins to the church’s governing body of deacons.

The FBI has also joined the Lake County Sheriff’s office in the investigation.

FBI spokesman Robert Ramsey said: “It is too early at this point to release any further information.â€

The church is a conglomerate that includes a 7,500 seat auditorium and is headquartered in the old federal courthouse in Hammond, IN. Schaap helped grow the church into its ‘mega’ status with 15,000 people attending weekend services, according to Wilson.

Parishioners were shocked when they heard the news.

Norma Hogan described the pastor as “very charismatic, very magnetic.â€

“He’s always saying how his wife is beautiful and so much in his life,†Hogan added. “This is jaw dropping.â€

The church has scheduled a meeting for the entire congregation for Wednesday night.

Schaap is married to the daughter of the church’s late leader, Rev. Jack Hyles.

http://chicago.cbslocal.com/2012/07/31/ ... ung-woman/

I am sickened for the victim(s) and so saddened to see an icon of my childhood fall, though not surprised. When you set yourself up as God, you can expect a great fall.

When I brought up the 20/20 show on IFB churches when it aired, IFB people said that it was sad such lies were being spread. But I knew they weren't lies. This might wake them up. Schaap admitted it. These cannot be shrugged off as "lies".

[CynicMom]

Wait.... that article makes it seem like he was caught making out with women who aren't his wife. That's hugely different from raping women.

[mirele]

This is unbelievably huge and will shake the world of Independent Fundamental Baptists to the core. The followers of the late Jack Hyles (and there are many) will be unhappy. Those who don't follow Hyles (and Schaap, his successor) will be snickering behind their hands.

Stuff Fundies Like has excerpts from a July 8 sermon. The guy was harping on about sex:

http://www.stufffundieslike.com/2012/07/lasts-gasps/

ETA: the Pissing Preacher went there for a year(?) before deciding he knew more than what could be taught there. He's regularly dissed Schaap. Wonder if Zsuzsu will rise from her childbed and post a thinly-veiled denunciation of Hyles-Anderson college or the church? Remember, she claimed there were deaths in the nursery and many here believe she was talking about First Baptist Church of Hammond.

[apple1]

Wait.... that article makes it seem like he was caught making out with women who aren't his wife. That's hugely different from raping women.

I wondered how long this would take to hit FJ.

This is my understanding:

The girl (word choice intentional) has just now turned 17. She was 16 at the time all this occurred. It is alleged that occurrences happened in Indiana, Illinois, and Michigan. 16 is age of consent in Indiana, but not in Illinois. (Not sure about Michigan). That makes it (at the least) statutory rape. FBI is involved because of crossing state lines, apparently.

Then there is the issue of the unequal power thing involved in a counselor/counselee situation, or pastor/parishioner situation, never mind that the girl was supposedly being counseled for former sexual abuse, and never mind the double standards, the disregard of his own professed moral beliefs, etc, etc.

Yeah, this is going to be huge in the IFB world.

[pixydust]

I'm really confused. Did he cheat on his wife with women over 18 or did he do something illegal (rape or stat rape?) The article says that they are teens, but legal age, then it says that the police are involved.

[IReallyAmHopewell]

WOW!!!! Hyles Anderson College will likely feel the weight of this impropriety. Since men and women are barely allowed to talk to each other. Just plain Wow on Jack getting busted. Wow, wow, wow.

[mirele]

I'm really confused. Did he cheat on his wife with women over 18 or did he do something illegal (rape or stat rape?) The article says that they are teens, but legal age, then it says that the police are involved.

It may be statutory sexual assault of a minor depending on what state the activity occurred in. Indiana's age of consent is 16. However, if the young woman was a minor (despite state age of consent laws) and he crossed state lines to have sex with her, the federal Mann Act could be invoked. Plus, what was on the cell phone? Was it just a picture of him kissing the girl, or more? (*Just* a picture would have freaked out the deacon, I'm thinking.)

The fact that the church felt compelled to announce that it had turned this over to the police indicates to me that there's some possible legal ramifications here. Jeri Massi believes the church may be trying to cover its azz for any potential lawsuits. http://jeriwho.net/lillypad2/?p=11757

[Glass Cowcatcher]

How many incidents like this is it going to take for the public to get it into its head, abuse is just rampant in the Protestant world, too?

[IReallyAmHopewell]

http://www.sfgate.com/news/article/Hamm ... 750885.php San Francisco Chronicle on the story

[Jessica]

Wait, so Jack Schaap is a lunatic? Gee, who knew?

[pixydust]

It may be statutory sexual assault of a minor depending on what state the activity occurred in. Indiana's age of consent is 16. However, if the young woman was a minor (despite state age of consent laws) and he crossed state lines to have sex with her, the federal Mann Act could be invoked. Plus, what was on the cell phone? Was it just a picture of him kissing the girl, or more? (*Just* a picture would have freaked out the deacon, I'm thinking.)

The fact that the church felt compelled to announce that it had turned this over to the police indicates to me that there's some possible legal ramifications here. Jeri Massi believes the church may be trying to cover its azz for any potential lawsuits. http://jeriwho.net/lillypad2/?p=11757

Ok, thanks...it just seems so fishy, KWIM? Like either the journalist isn't worth the paper his diploma is on or the church is hiding something.

BTW, WHY would the pastor let the girl take a picture?!?! Did he not think that there was a chance that she would show it to anyone, or her parents would never take her phone from her and look in it, etc? Way to not be concerned with proof being out there! Is that man that full of himself?

[nolongerIFBx]

Wait.... that article makes it seem like he was caught making out with women who aren't his wife. That's hugely different from raping women.

That was my first reaction, that even though it was wrong by the words from his own mouth, it wasn't illegal. But if rumors are true (which we know they often aren't) the girl is 16, was transported across state lines, and was being counseled for sexual abuse, any of which would make this situation a legal matter. One comment said that his cell phone got left and the person who found it found it displaying a picture from the girl of herself an Schaap in a non-pastorly situation. Again, these are rumors/comments. But since Schaap confessed, there is some truth to it.

[pixydust]

That was my first reaction, that even though it was wrong by the words from his own mouth, it wasn't illegal. But if rumors are true (which we know they often aren't) the girl is 16, was transported across state lines, and was being counseled for sexual abuse, any of which would make this situation a legal matter. One comment said that his cell phone got left and the person who found it found it displaying a picture from the girl of herself an Schaap in a non-pastorly situation. Again, these are rumors/comments. But since Schaap confessed, there is some truth to it.

Well, that would make it illegal! Just the fact that he is counseling her makes it illegal, right?

[mirele]

Well, that would make it illegal! Just the fact that he is counseling her makes it illegal, right?

Again, depends on the state and whether there's a religious exemption (would not surprise me). This opens up lots of cans of worms.

I feel for his wife. Her world has got to be crumbling around her right now. She is a daughter of the previous pastor, Jack Hyles, who was also accused of being a womanizer (of adult females) while alive.

[Kaylee]

They're supposed to be announcing more about what's going on at church tonight, but they are bringing in David Gibbs from the "Christian Law Association" to address people which, in my opinion, is a bad thing (he has a history of defending abusers and molesters and has been there to protect the church, not the victims, in every case that I know of).

I've talked to a few people in Hammond who are close to the situation but there are a lot of rumors going around (although some are from pretty reliable sources) - even the news accounts are relying heavily on a few sources and the most quoted one is a woman who hasn't been connected to the church for over 20 years, now lives in Nevada, and is getting her info from forums and facebook groups (plus Jocelyn Zichterman & one very disgruntled guy who dropped out of HAC after attending for 8 weeks), despite whatever good intentions she may have. I'm waiting to see what comes out then and if the official story given to the public and the church at large, now that Gibbs is involved, is the same one that was given to deacons and staff members when t first broke. I've also hear a rumor that Schaap may actually be present and address the church at the meeting tonight, but I find that hard to believe considering he's been fired.

I'm still sort of collecting my thoughts on this (I've had several people call or message me about this and I might be writing a full post on it, but wanted to wait and see what the official announcement is first). I was only at HAC for less than 2 years and thought Schaap was an arrogant jerk then, but this has me pretty shaken because there are people involved with FBC/HAC that I still really care about and a lot of them are very hurt by this. I also feel terrible for both the victim and for Mrs. Schaap (this now makes her husband, father, brother, and in-laws who've all been either caught or accused of adultery).

[Burris]

Church authorities nailed Jack Schaap? Wow; they must be really afraid of a lawsuit. About the only way they'd run over one of their own is if money were involved.

[mirele]

Church authorities nailed Jack Schaap? Wow; they must be really afraid of a lawsuit. About the only way they'd run over one of their own is if money were involved.

Not just a lawsuit--if there's any truth to the criminal allegations, it's likely the church would suffer from a coverup. Cf. Sandusky, Penn State.

[TudorRose]

Damm David Gibbs. He represented Bob Gray, an IFBx pastor in Jacksonville FL who admitted to the police he french-kissed little girls.

he's a fixer, and he specialises in protecting perverted men in church leadership. He's the head asshole in charge of making credible witnesses into 'sluts and nuts.'

Damn David Gibbs.

[Kaylee]

Damm David Gibbs. He represented Bob Gray, an IFBx pastor in Jacksonville FL who admitted to the police he french-kissed little girls.

he's a fixer, and he specialises in protecting perverted men in church leadership. He's the head asshole in charge of making credible witnesses into 'sluts and nuts.'

Damn David Gibbs.

QFT x10!

Also, at the meeting tonight, it as adults only with no teens present and people were told that Gibbs was "conducting an investigation" into any other instances of sexual abuse or misconduct and that they should come to him with information (ie, not the police). NOT GOOD AT ALL.

Damn, Hammond, why did I actually think there was hope this would be handled above board and people would do the right thing?

I do think Penn State is weighing on their minds because (rumor has it) Gibbs is the one who advised them to hurry up and fire Schaap, probably so it would look like they were addressing the problem. Gibbs also represented Chuck Phelps in the Tina Anderson case. AFAIK, he's always been there to to damage control for the church or pastor accused, not because he gives a damn about any victims.

[blisterine]

i feel a chick tract coming on.

[asinglevoice]

And right on time, ZsuZsu has a post up about it. She knew it all along, of course - he's a pervert!

[Kaylee]

And right on time, ZsuZsu has a post up about it. She knew it all along, of course - he's a pervert!

Actually, you've gotta give Spamderson credit for this - he's been trashing Schaap and pointing out some of his more pervy ideas for years, not that it excuses his own personal brand of crazy at all.

The lame part of this is I had finally gotten to the point a few months ago where I was trying to see some good in Jack Schaap because I was really bitter toward him over certain things and then this comes out. And I still spent about half of yesterday evening crying (part over this part over other crap) and part of today holding back tears over it even though I'm not part of that crowd now and really didn't think I cared about it anymore. I guess I can see why so many people are sticking by him - even if you disliked him personally there are still lot of good people affected by it and lots of memories that just seem tarnished now by being related to it. (Dragging my sleep-deprived carcass to bed now and will try to post a real update tomorrow if I can get up with someone who was at the meeting and heard things firsthand).

[auntdocjulie]

Raine, I'm sorry you are hurting over - again - another debaucle from Hammond and the extended Hyles family. I went to HAC long ago and then ended up at Dave Hyles church in Garland, TX. What a mess! I know how heartbroken you feel, I felt the same. I learned a good lesson though. First God has nothing to do with these perverts. The sooner you can think of them as what they are, the better off you will be and the better you will feel. You have to take care of your heart because they couldn't care less abt you or the shape of your spirituality. They are sick puppies and the people who stay at places like HAC and Hammond are either condoning the perversion -whether they will admit it or not - or involved in something they shouldn't be doing too. I know you're hurting, but remember, these predators in their arrogance use their power to seduce their followers for their own nefarious purposes. Don't feel sorry for Schaap. He should have learned his lesson when his bil did the same thing years ago.

[Want More Babies]

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/08/0 ... ef=chicago

And members are still defending him. :angry-cussingblack:

[mirele]

Tr0UpQXYkGs

Jack Schaap Demonstrates How To Polish A Shaft

This is from a 2010 Youth Conference at First Baptist Church. You can get the gist of it in the first 20 seconds. Watch the young guy on the far left. His eyes tell the story.