Lori Alexander 15: Leaving A Fire With Her Makeup Bag

[older than allosaurs]

4 hours ago, onemama said:

No kidding!  

Here's his interpretation of "husbands love your wives as Christ loved the church". 

Sorry, I really don't know what parts to bold, so there you go. All bold! ha!  

 

I guess it's too much to hope that Dave is a giant old troll, stringing Lori along to see what she'll endorse? If not, I have a spare bed and would shelter his wife when she's had enough.

[AlwaysDiscerning]

Anonymous Mother says:

Quote

 

February 23, 2017 at 1:26 pm

Trey,

I can’t speak for other women, but I can speak for myself, my sisters, and a number of my friends. We’re basically pretty easy to understand — we would like to know that we’re more than just pieces of meat to our husbands. We would like to know that we are considered rational, intellectual beings (just as an aside, we need to be rational and intellectual if we are going to homeschool our children, do you not think?)

We aren’t nearly as complicated as you appear to think. And, just for the record, in our marriage I am the one who is consistently refused sex — it will be three years in July, and prior to that time it was one year, and prior to that it was six months. So there you go. And I, too, have read the post from TheJoyFilledWife, and it was no help at all for me. What finally helped me was detaching in as healthy a way as possible, organizing a list of activities and hobbies I had always wanted to do, but hadn’t because I didn’t believe I had time, and basically taking more charge of my life. This did not change the situation, but it changed me.

For a while, I was nearly beside myself because my husband was constantly comparing me to other women….no matter what I did, I could not do anything “right”. I didn’t cook right, I didn’t homeschool right, I did very little right. At a certain point, I became severely depressed and considered suicide. It took me a very long time to detach from it appropriately (which means that I had to simply be an observer of what was happening, without internalizing it). I had a good woman friend who helped me to do this. I then simply proceeded to focus on improving my life and my children’s lives.

Now, I have no idea if you would consider this ungodly, but this is what helped me. My identity no longer rests in what my husband thinks of me, what he says or what he does. I am detached from him.

What you seem to be saying, basically, is that we aren’t worth anything except to be there to meet your sexual needs, bear your children and do chores. My husband believes the same, minus the sexual needs part, since he refuses to have any relations with me. Living like that is like living in a nightmare. If you don’t detach from a situation like this, it is like grueling your way through twenty-four hours.

I am posting anonymously for my safety and other security reasons.

 

 

Lori Alexander says:

February 23, 2017 at 2:13 pm

Quote

 

I am sincerely you are having to endure this suffering. You are married to a difficult and disobedient husband. If you read 1 Peter 2, Paul exhorts servants with this admonition, “Servants, be subject to your masters with all fear; not only to the good and gentle, but also to the froward (difficult to deal with). For this is thankworthy, if a man for conscience toward God endure grief, suffering wrongfully. For what glory is it, if, when ye be buffeted for your faults, ye shall take it patiently? but if, when ye do well, and suffer for it, ye take it patiently, this is acceptable with God. For even hereunto were ye called: because Christ also suffered for us, leaving us an example, that ye should follow his steps.” Christ suffered and we can expect to suffer here on this earth.

Then the next chapter begins with “Likewise…” Just as servants may suffer under a difficult master and Christ has suffered for us, wives may suffer under a disobedient husband. Then Paul gives God’s remedy for them in 1 Peter 3:1-6. Win them without a word by being in subjection to them with godly behavior.

Your short time of suffering is nothing compared to a suffering for eternity in hell that your husband will endure if you don’t show him Christ through your actions and behavior. This is what He asked us to do and it is good.

Lastly, just because you are married to a difficult man doesn’t mean that what Trey has exhorted the many women who are not married to difficult men is wrong advice. It is very good advice.

 

Wow, fuck off Lori! This woman says she almost killed herself because of her husband and still all the empathy goes towards the husband. She is far more concerned with the poor man. Whatever she has suffered, like being suicidal, heck that is nothing! Your husband will suffer MUCH longer in hell if you to snap to!

[Red Hair, Black Dress]

Dave's latest rambling posts that God only loves men and gave men all the power make me think he's about 1 post away from declaring he's speaking for God, and 2-3 posts away from declaring he is God.  The man is a misogynist but also a nut case

Dave's oldie but awful-ie  post on physical punishment in marriage "convicts" me (as Lori would say) that he regularly practices it in his marriage,  And by physical punishment I don't mean time-outs or taking away the cell phone.

I worked with a woman many years ago who had been married to a man (a very fundie minister) who believed in physical punishment in marriage.  He was into spanking with a switch, ruler on the hand (striking with the metal edge), using a belt to punish her for what she had done that was "wrong".

She told a group of us at lunch about it one day, mentioning that after the first 3-4 years of marriage she managed to only get punished a few times a year, She assured us that he had never broken any bones, mostly just bruises,  black eye or 2, and once a sprained wrist.  As if the bruises weren't awful enough for those of us listening.

She finally left him when he broke her arm.  And why you ask did he do that?  Seems he had repeatedly told her that during his sermons she was not to move at all but just gaze at him adoringly drinking in his every word and she was to make their 3 children did the same,  Her crime that Sunday was turning her head, getting a tissue from her purse and wiped the snot from her child who had just sneezed,  He broke the arm she used to retrieve the tissue and wipe the kid's nose. Telling he was tired of telling her how to behave in church and that since it was broken she couldn't do that again and maybe **now** she and the children would sit still.

We sat there in stunned silence for a moment then someone said.  "You know you were an abused wife don't you.  What took so long to leave him?"  She protested that it wasn't abuse but loving chastisement for her disobedience.  But she left because  -- while it was OK if he punished her -- she was afraid he'd start in on the children since he's begun to criticize her for not controlling them enough.

There are a million stories in the fundie Bible belt, and most of them are horrible. 

[polecat]

32 minutes ago, AlwaysDiscerning said:

Your short time of suffering is nothing compared to a suffering for eternity in hell that your husband will endure if you don’t show him Christ through your actions and behavior. This is what He asked us to do and it is good.

 

This is such a powerful way to control people, telling you that if you fail to do something, you're sending someone else to hell. It's a great way to get wayward fundy kids and wives to snap to right away. You might be okay with playing Russian roulette with your own soul, but you definitely don't want to risk another person's soul.

That poor woman is doing every single thing right, according to Lori, and Lori still finds a way to get some slaps in. She's definitely got a "gift," all right. But it's not prophecy. It's straight bitchery. 

[Joyce]

That's horrible abuse. If the abuse does not stop, the abused can detach just like Anonymous Mother, or leave just like the wife of the fundie minister. It's better to detach or leave than be depressed, bruised, or dead. I'm glad that the abused wife left for the good of her children.

Threat of hell should not be used to make people stay in abusive relationships. Better to be an atheist than a hypocritical Catholic, said the Pope. Better not to believe in God or hell after life than make or endure a living hell on earth.

[Koala]

Lori is a bully.  Just pure vile.

And how does what she's saying wash with what Dave says (which she praises)?

He claims there's an elect already chosen, and it's not a Christians job to "save" others, yet Lori puts the burden of a husband's salvation squarely on the wife's shoulders.  Not much luck with thinking, that one.

She contradicts herself without even trying.

[Koala]

Okay, so here's Dave's (idiotic) rambling:

Quote

Consider a fundamental thought: scripture says God has elected His people before the creation of the earth. We don’t save anyone.

Lori (who hangs on Dave's every words) says:

Quote

Your short time of suffering is nothing compared to a suffering for eternity in hell that your husband will endure if you don’t show him Christ through your actions and behavior.

But let's get real.  This is really about controlling and downright abusing women.  They will say whatever it takes in order to do that, even if it clearly contradicts what they've already said.

Lori doesn't give a tinker's damn about that woman's suffering...she's already said that we should expect suffering, and pain is a great teacher.

Hell, she doesn't even offer to pray for her, which I guess, is the most honest thing about her. Because she won't. 

[Joyce]

Just read Trey's comment to Anonymous Mother and he blames her for not submitting to her husband and detaching herself. Wow. She almost killed herself, and he still blames her. If the husband was crazy, is she still to blame?

[AlwaysDiscerning]

His whole comment needs to be saved here. 

Quote

 

Trey says:

February 23, 2017 at 4:06 pm

Anonymous Mother,
It sounds like you and your husband are in a very rough marriage. Trust me when I tell you that I sincerely feel your pain. I am going to make some tough statements here and they are certainly not meant to give you anymore pain, but rather to ask you to consider a different viewpoint than the one you are currently holding. Without hearing your husbands side of the story, this is very difficult for me to do and I will admit right up front that some of what I am about to say could be completely wrong… but I have enough experience to know that it might be right. This assumes that your husband is a Christian and is seeking to follow Christ on a daily basis. If he is not, then Lori’s counsel above better applies.

First of all, I have never questioned the intellectual capacity of women. I know more than a few women that have a greater intellectual capacity than myself. That said, I also know of two women (off the top of my head) both with great intellectual capacity, who have successfully home-schooled their kids and yet have exhibited some epic bouts of irrationality over the years and allowed their emotions to drive them to actions that literately defy all rational, common sense.

The fact that you think that you and your sisters and your friends are all rational and easy to understand… (sorry but I am chuckling here) all I can tell you is that you might be shocked to see yourselves from a man’s point of view. This refusal on your part to believe that men see women (and the world) differently than women do, could be part of the problem between you and your husband. Too many women expect their husbands to see, and think and feel as they do and (most) men do not have the capacity to do this. It is not that we just don’t want to, it’s that we can’t. When husbands do not meet their wives (unrealistic) expectations, the wives get upset and it causes them stress and pain. They have brought this stress and pain upon themselves through their wrong thinking.

Regarding your husband refusing you sex, the bible says that he is in sin.

Although I agree that your husband should not have been comparing you to other women, the fact that he was expressing his displeasure at the way you were (your examples were) cooking, home-schooling the kids, almost everything, makes me wonder why there was so much contention between the two of you. If you were being a Godly wife, in complete submission to him, and open to complying with his wishes (or obeying his instructions) on these matters, then at some point there would have been no further contention and no ongoing conflict. I wonder, were you too rational and intellectual to do that? Did you know better than your husband and refuse to comply with his wishes and instructions?

The fact that it reached such a point that instead of submitting to him and complying with his wishes, (which would have ended the conflict) you instead detached yourself from the relationship. You chose to completely cut him out and made a life for yourself with activities and hobbies to fill in the time… taking “charge” of your life. I have to say that this does not really sound like you are following Gods instructions.

Is it possible that you are to blame for this situation? Were you so stubborn, rational, intellectual, self-righteous and contentious that YOU brought this trouble on your marriage? Is is possible that this self-imposed detached state where you have taken “charge” is an even a greater expression of contention and non-submission toward your husband. Since he would not submit to your will and change to make you happy, you have taken your toys and went to your room. If this is the case, I doubt than any man would want to have sex with a woman like that. We would rather hide on the roof of the house or go and live in the desert. I again admit that I could be completely off base here, but my experience tells me that I could be hitting the nail right on the head.

Your identity should never rest on what your husband or any other human on this earth thinks of you. You should understand that your identity resides in Jesus Christ and Him alone.

I never said that wives were only their to meet their husbands sexual needs, bear their children and do the chores. God said that… except there is no “only ” in there. He expects other things from a Godly wife also like being helpful, submission, obedience, respect and a gentle and quite spirit just to name a few. I might be completely off base here but I have to ask, are you really the victim here, or might you be the root cause of the problems in your marriage? Just something to consider. I don’t know you but my heart goes out to you and your husband and everything I have said here has been said in love. I have prayed for reconciliation in your marriage.

 

 

[Jellybean]

My goodness.

What an unbearably smug, self-satisfied, condescending, heartless post.

I hope this will contribute to the breakdown of Lori's ministry, and that the person to whom Dave was responding can get some good advice, along with sympathy, kindness, support, encouragement and love, and that she can find a way out of her current situation. 

[feministxtian]

And men are NEVER EVER irrational? Umm...RIIIIIIIIIIIIIGHT!!! 

What a dick. 

[desertvixen]

Quote

Trey says:

Too many women expect their husbands to see, and think and feel as they do and (most) men do not have the capacity to do this. It is not that we just don’t want to, it’s that we can’t. When husbands do not meet their wives (unrealistic) expectations, the wives get upset and it causes them stress and pain. They have brought this stress and pain upon themselves through their wrong thinking.

But women are supposed to meet MEN's unrealistic expectations? 

Plus, I think a lot of us have figured out that men are not mind readers.  Therefore, we rely on a formula that goes something like "(Husband), when you do/don't do X, it makes me feel Y"

It doesn't always work, but it's worth a try.

I love (and really mean that I hate with the passion of a thousand suns) how his post could basically be summed up as "I'm not saying it's your fault, but it's totally your fault."

[KDA]

That comment by Trey made me sick. It really did. Like another poster above said, I truly hope these comments by this horrible man will break down Lori's "ministry" before she harms too many more women.

Neither Trey nor Lori have any idea of the strength it takes to survive in an abusive marriage, or the strength it takes to leave. 

[laPapessaGiovanna]

5 hours ago, AlwaysDiscerning said:

His whole comment needs to be saved here. 

 

I was so tempted to downvote your post in a rage fit! That imbecile is is an arsehole afflicted with a delirating verbal diarrhoea.

1 hour ago, KDA said:

That comment by Trey made me sick. It really did. Like another poster above said, I truly hope these comments by this horrible man will break down Lori's "ministry" before she harms too many more women.

I wouldn't hold my breath over this, considering that excusing away incest, advocating child abuse (beating a child for hours IS fucking abuse), advocating wife beating and all their other appalling beliefs weren't enough. 

[Hisey]

Y

Yes, even when Ken published this beauty, Lori's ministry was unaffected.

[feministxtian]

Where did Ken grow up that this sort of behavior was commonplace? 

[Hisey]

2 minutes ago, feministxtian said:

Where did Ken grow up that this sort of behavior was commonplace? 

Good question. I think he spent some time on some tropical island somewhere, in the West Indies, maybe? But I don't know if that's where he's talking about when he speaks of incest being commonplace in the community. 

I think Ken is sick and tired of women who were sexually abused saying that their sex life in adulthood was affected by their abuse. That is just a sorry excuse for denying their husbands what they deserve! So he's come up with this cockamamie reason why incest is "normal" and its all just how you process it. The wives are processing it wrong, you see, and when they process it right (after reading Ken's comment) then their husbands will get the regular sex that is the right of all men.

[feministxtian]

9 minutes ago, Hisey said:

The wives are processing it wrong, you see, and when they process it right (after reading Ken's comment) then their husbands will get the regular sex that is the right of all men.

Oh no honey...it's not a "right"...if you're a nasty-ass creep...you ain't getting in my pants. You have no "rights" to me whatsoever, you only get what I choose to give you. Needless to say, Ken wouldn't get the time of day from me. 

[RosyDaisy]

Lori, Ken, Trey, Dave are fucking monsters!

[AlwaysDiscerning]

2 hours ago, laPapessaGiovanna said:

I was so tempted to downvote your post in a rage fit! That imbecile is is an arsehole afflicted with a delirating verbal diarrhoea.

I wouldn't hold my breath over this, considering that excusing away incest, advocating child abuse (beating a child for hours IS fucking abuse), advocating wife beating and all their other appalling beliefs weren't enough. 

I know, it's 5am and I can't sleep because can't stop thinking about it.

[polecat]

11 hours ago, AlwaysDiscerning said:

Trey says:

February 23, 2017 at 4:06 pm

Anonymous Mother,
It sounds like you and your husband are in a very rough marriage. Trust me when I tell you that I sincerely feel your pain. I am going to make some tough statements here and they are certainly not meant to give you anymore pain, but rather to ask you to consider a different viewpoint than the one you are currently holding. Without hearing your husbands side of the story, this is very difficult for me to do and I will admit right up front that some of what I am about to say could be completely wrong… but I have enough experience to know that it might be right. This assumes that your husband is a Christian and is seeking to follow Christ on a daily basis. If he is not, then Lori’s counsel above better applies.

First of all, I have never questioned the intellectual capacity of women. I know more than a few women that have a greater intellectual capacity than myself. That said, I also know of two women (off the top of my head) both with great intellectual capacity, who have successfully home-schooled their kids and yet have exhibited some epic bouts of irrationality over the years and allowed their emotions to drive them to actions that literately defy all rational, common sense.

The fact that you think that you and your sisters and your friends are all rational and easy to understand… (sorry but I am chuckling here) all I can tell you is that you might be shocked to see yourselves from a man’s point of view. This refusal on your part to believe that men see women (and the world) differently than women do, could be part of the problem between you and your husband. Too many women expect their husbands to see, and think and feel as they do and (most) men do not have the capacity to do this. It is not that we just don’t want to, it’s that we can’t. When husbands do not meet their wives (unrealistic) expectations, the wives get upset and it causes them stress and pain. They have brought this stress and pain upon themselves through their wrong thinking.

Regarding your husband refusing you sex, the bible says that he is in sin.

Although I agree that your husband should not have been comparing you to other women, the fact that he was expressing his displeasure at the way you were (your examples were) cooking, home-schooling the kids, almost everything, makes me wonder why there was so much contention between the two of you. If you were being a Godly wife, in complete submission to him, and open to complying with his wishes (or obeying his instructions) on these matters, then at some point there would have been no further contention and no ongoing conflict. I wonder, were you too rational and intellectual to do that? Did you know better than your husband and refuse to comply with his wishes and instructions?

The fact that it reached such a point that instead of submitting to him and complying with his wishes, (which would have ended the conflict) you instead detached yourself from the relationship. You chose to completely cut him out and made a life for yourself with activities and hobbies to fill in the time… taking “charge” of your life. I have to say that this does not really sound like you are following Gods instructions.

Is it possible that you are to blame for this situation? Were you so stubborn, rational, intellectual, self-righteous and contentious that YOU brought this trouble on your marriage? Is is possible that this self-imposed detached state where you have taken “charge” is an even a greater expression of contention and non-submission toward your husband. Since he would not submit to your will and change to make you happy, you have taken your toys and went to your room. If this is the case, I doubt than any man would want to have sex with a woman like that. We would rather hide on the roof of the house or go and live in the desert. I again admit that I could be completely off base here, but my experience tells me that I could be hitting the nail right on the head.

Your identity should never rest on what your husband or any other human on this earth thinks of you. You should understand that your identity resides in Jesus Christ and Him alone.

I never said that wives were only their to meet their husbands sexual needs, bear their children and do the chores. God said that… except there is no “only ” in there. He expects other things from a Godly wife also like being helpful, submission, obedience, respect and a gentle and quite spirit just to name a few. I might be completely off base here but I have to ask, are you really the victim here, or might you be the root cause of the problems in your marriage? Just something to consider. I don’t know you but my heart goes out to you and your husband and everything I have said here has been said in love. I have prayed for reconciliation in your marriage.

 

There are people for whom nothing can be right, ever, and it doesn't matter how submissive you are or how hard you try. You will NEVER measure up. Anonymous Mother sounds like she's married to one, and instead of Trey acknowledging her pain and encouraging her in some way, he smears her face in her hurt. It was all I could do not to downvote you, and it wasn't even your post! Just a kneejerk response. Sigh. 

[AlwaysDiscerning]

Lori is defending her gift of prophesy today:

Quote

Older women also use all three of these things (prophesy: edify, exhort, comfort) with younger women as I do in order to teach all aspects of godly womanhood. Ken has told me that I have the gift of prophesy but I certainly don’t ever speak out in a church service or hear a “new word” apart from Scriptures.

She must be reading here. 

Lori addresses Ben and Ruth and quickly tells them abuse is no reason for divorce:

Quote

Please read this article. These are NOT biblical grounds for divorce. Yes, separate for safety sake but no where does the Bible give these grounds for divorce for “love never fails.”

Who says there is love there in the first place? If he is abusing you there isn't even love to fail. 

Not to mention, here she goes again TEACHING MEN. Telling Ben he is wrong and correcting him. 

[Jellybean]

Off topic, but I was just looking at Ken's website, and noticed that he has two grandchildren but his son has three children. How does that work?

http://www.alexanderandsons.consulting/about-us/who-we-are

[polecat]

4 minutes ago, Jellybean said:

Off topic, but I was just looking at Ken's website, and noticed that he has two grandchildren but his son has three children. How does that work?

http://www.alexanderandsons.consulting/about-us/who-we-are

 

I didn't realize that son had another child. And is Ken not counting the other two grandchildren he now has from his other son and his daughter? That would be five total, right? I guess he doesn't update often. 

[louisa05]

"Love never fails" is in a passage that is not talking about marriage or relationships. It is in some translations of the famous 1 Corinthians "love chapter". It is, thus, part of the definition of love. 

Lori is really stretching to cite that as a verse against divorce. First of all, she has "taught" (I am hesitant to call Lori's rambling self-contradicting nonsense actual teaching) in the past that love is not necessary for or a basis for marriage--that you should just be with someone and make a choice/learn to love them along the way. So "love never fails" is not an argument for keeping a marriage together if that marriage is not based on love in the first place. Secondly, if there is abuse or adultery, then the spouse responsible is actually failing to meet the definition of love set out in that very passage. The person has failed to be patient, kind, persevere, etc... and failed. 

And, again, the passage is not focused on marriage but on how Christians should define and practice love to each other and to the greater world. Yes, that definition of how to love can be (and often is) applied to marriage. But if Lori wants to apply it to marriage, her teaching all falls apart. "Love is patient. Love is kind"--what is patient and kind about a husband demanding sex? If a husband is patient, he'll wait for his wife. If he is kind, he won't make demands for that or anything. Love is "not self-seeking"--she can apply that quite well to her teaching that women should give up what they want for what their spouse wants, but the passage is addressed to all Christians. What is not self-seeking about the way Trey, Dave and her asshole husband talk about women? Their theology of marriage is incredibly self-seeking as the wife is there merely to meet every need of the husband without question. Love "does not boast"...well, I don't think I even need to cite examples there; Lori and Ken brag about themselves and all they have all the time. Love "does not dishonor others"--again, I don't think I need to bother with examples; there are so many. 

I think Lori should be very careful about trying to apply this passage to her marriage teachings. It could bite her pretty hard.