Residual hang-ups from your former Christian belief system?

[amydamy]

I tend to have this nagging feeling that someone, somewhere, is always watching me and judging me - anywhere I go, anything I do, anything I think is observed and measured in terms of things I should or shouldn't do. "I see you, eating that ice cream directly out of the carton where you think no one will know because no one is with you and it doesn't matter anyway because you live alone, but it does matter, because it is wrong, and I see you doing it, and I know you are doing wrong, and I know that you know that I know." When I was younger and thought I was a Christian I assumed it was God, keeping track of whether I was sinning or not and whether I ought to be forgiven for being sufficiently sorry for said sins, but it's still there even though logically I know there is virtually no possibility that such an entity exists. I even feel a little bit uncomfortable outright saying I'm an atheist because in the back of my mind there is a little image of God watching and saying, "I heard that, and I'll remember." I never really had a fear of hell or anything, it's just the whole idea of always being watched and judged. Could also be some weird form of social anxiety where, when there aren't any actual people around to judge me, I make them up in my head.

I have this same feeling, it's like never really being alone. It's also like I'm waiting for the punishment for those "bad" things to come.

When I was still a Christian I used to get freaked out when ever my parents weren't home when they should have been, just normal things like being home late from work or even being out in the yard or basement where I couldn't see our hear them, I would think they has been raptured and I had been left behind because I wasn't a good enough christian.

[JesusFightClub]

Praying. I still feel the urge. As a good Marxist, I generally don't ;)

When I was at my sister in law's funeral I knew and sang the hymns and recited the Lord's Prayer with everyone else. It was pretty much a Pavlovian reaction and I thought nothing of it. But my dad was actually angry with me for doing it and said "You're an atheist! It's hypocritical." I took the attitude there's no God and so all it was was a gesture of respect, but he kept saying "You prayed the prayer."

I also have an encylopedic knowledge of the dodgier parts of the Bible, which I startle my comrades with. My best mate generally refuses to believe me. She's from an atheist background and thinks I'm making it up. It's all right for her! I had Chapel and scripture lessons every day, she just had an old bloke saying, in essence, "Be excellent to each other." And we were quite heavy on the hellfire and brimstone aspect, too.

[latraviata]

Praying. I still feel the urge. As a good Marxist, I generally don't ;)

When I was at my sister in law's funeral I knew and sang the hymns and recited the Lord's Prayer with everyone else. It was pretty much a Pavlovian reaction and I thought nothing of it. But my dad was actually angry with me for doing it and said "You're an atheist! It's hypocritical." I took the attitude there's no God and so all it was was a gesture of respect, but he kept saying "You prayed the prayer."

I also have an encylopedic knowledge of the dodgier parts of the Bible, which I startle my comrades with. My best mate generally refuses to believe me. She's from an atheist background and thinks I'm making it up. It's all right for her! I had Chapel and scripture lessons every day, she just had an old bloke saying, in essence, "Be excellent to each other." And we were quite heavy on the hellfire and brimstone aspect, too.

A Pavlov reaction indeed. Years ago my mum invited me to go to church because the music was one of Mozart's masses. Well for Mozart I gladly make an exception. During mass I automatically I made all the signs and movements going along with the ritual.

At a certain point, mum nudged me and hissed, will you please stop, that was all abolished 20 years ago.

[JesusFightClub]

It's so weird, isn't it? It didn't occur to me to NOT sing or NOT pray. Some things about the funeral were strange to me (unlike you, I'm not Catholic, my background is Protestant and it was a Catholic funeral) but I did know the hymns and the prayer. You could have explained to me some bits! :)

There's a big sectarian divide in Scotland between Protestant and Catholic and my family background on one side is heavily Irish Protestant. It's related partly to the Troubles in Northern Ireland but the history is older than that. My dad has vivid childhood memories of singing "anti Papist" songs with his mum and dad and he was brought up to strongly dislike and distrust Catholics. He's mainly got over it now. My mum and dad tried to bring me up with no prejudice but I always thought Catholics did "weird things" and at school we were told Catholicism was a false religion. I've told the story on here befor about having to pray for the IRA at school - not that they would stop blowing things up, but that they would turn from Catholicism!

That's when I realised the whole thing was bloody stupid and if you want to talk about weird things done in the name of religion, praying that the IRA stop being Catholic is fucking ridiculous. That is, er, not the main problem with them, to say the least.

I know you are atheist now, but I am very sorry for my childhood confusion. Scotland can be a bad place at times.

[latraviata]

It's so weird, isn't it? It didn't occur to me to NOT sing or NOT pray. Some things about the funeral were strange to me (unlike you, I'm not Catholic, my background is Protestant and it was a Catholic funeral) but I did know the hymns and the prayer. You could have explained to me some bits! :)

There's a big sectarian divide in Scotland between Protestant and Catholic and my family background on one side is heavily Irish Protestant. It's related partly to the Troubles in Northern Ireland but the history is older than that. My dad has vivid childhood memories of singing "anti Papist" songs with his mum and dad and he was brought up to strongly dislike and distrust Catholics. He's mainly got over it now. My mum and dad tried to bring me up with no prejudice but I always thought Catholics did "weird things" and at school we were told Catholicism was a false religion. I've told the story on here befor about having to pray for the IRA at school - not that they would stop blowing things up, but that they would turn from Catholicism!

That's when I realised the whole thing was bloody stupid and if you want to talk about weird things done in the name of religion, praying that the IRA stop being Catholic is fucking ridiculous. That is, er, not the main problem with them, to say the least.

I know you are atheist now, but I am very sorry for my childhood confusion. Scotland can be a bad place at times.

In the Netherlands there used to be a very cultural distinction between catholics and protestant too.

The catholics were a sort of festive, always a pub in the direct neighbourhood of the church, good food, good intake of alcohol. The protestants were more subdued and everything pleasant was considered a sin. Protestantism required a more rigid lifestyle.

Actually I am an atheist as long as I remember, even as a child I didn't buy the the fairy tales of catholicism or christianity for that matter.

I remember the children from a nearby very orthodox protestant church spat on my white first communion dress, shouting dirty papist! Lovely times.

[ADoyle90815]

Gurrrl, I so hear you! As soon as my mom and I decided we were out of there we got large coffees and it was better than I had remembered.

Same here, in fact I bought myself a new coffee machine when I left that cult. One of the best lines from Star Trek 4 was "He did a little too much LDS in the 60's."

[NurseShannon]

I was raised a JW. I still have hang ups with blood. I'm a nurse, I don't mind to give blood to a patient, never really been an issue for me. When I had Steven Johnson Syndrome 2 years ago, before they knocked my ass out, I looked at my (now ex) husband and told him to sign to let me have IVIG, which is a blood based product...I knew it would save me.

My other hang up is that I was raised that sex before marriage (and divorce without certain grounds) was wrong. Well, I am divorced now and I am starting to date. I am scared at the thoughts of having sex with another person. I'm talking to a guy and going to go on a first date with him...but I kinda feel guilty, like I am betraying my (now ex) husband...even though I know I am not since our marriage is over with.

[debrand]

I thought about this last night and debated whether to post it. It sounds horrible but I no longer trust Christians. Being from the south, I've been exposed to several different kinds of evangelism so I've learned the tricks of the trade. I was told to always be a witness for Christ. Any expression of anger or annoyance could turn a nonChristian away. At the time, I didn't realize how fakely happy this made me. I've had friends tell me that they practice 'friendship evangelism' where they befriend a person they wish to convert. On line, I've received emails from other Christians who asked me not to disagree with them on a particular forum becuase they thought having all the Christians united would help convert the nonChristian members. There have been times when I overheard members of one denomination rabildy put down members of other denominations as nonChristians and watched as they sweetly tried to befriend those same people to win them to the "True" Christian Church.

All this has led me to viewing my former religion with more suspicion then I probably should.

[Guest Anonymous]

I thought about this last night and debated whether to post it. It sounds horrible but I no longer trust Christians. Being from the south, I've been exposed to several different kinds of evangelism so I've learned the tricks of the trade. I was told to always be a witness for Christ. Any expression of anger or annoyance could turn a nonChristian away. At the time, I didn't realize how fakely happy this made me. I've had friends tell me that they practice 'friendship evangelism' where they befriend a person they wish to convert. On line, I've received emails from other Christians who asked me not to disagree with them on a particular forum becuase they thought having all the Christians united would help convert the nonChristian members. There have been times when I overheard members of one denomination rabildy put down members of other denominations as nonChristians and watched as they sweetly tried to befriend those same people to win them to the "True" Christian Church.

All this has led me to viewing my former religion with more suspicion then I probably should.

I am glad you did post this. I have this issue too, hence my ungracious rant when offered a hug earlier upthread. I have mostly lost touch with old Christian friends now because the relationships felt forced and I often felt that I was the subject of friendship evangelism. I had an older friend from church, whose friendship I really valued, but I eventually stopped contact because I found it so painful every time we met, knowing that at some point I would be quizzed about going to church or whether I missed 'knowing Jesus'. This is horrible to admit but some years ago, she wrote to say that she was having cancer treatment and was resting in the Lord, and would love to see me. I sent a card but couldn't face seeing her because I just couldn't deal with her need for ME to know Jesus on HER deathbed, which was the gist of her note.

She is recovered now and I could get in touch but I just don't want Jesus in the relationship.

[Glass Cowcatcher]

I thought about this last night and debated whether to post it. It sounds horrible but I no longer trust Christians. Being from the south, I've been exposed to several different kinds of evangelism so I've learned the tricks of the trade. I was told to always be a witness for Christ. Any expression of anger or annoyance could turn a nonChristian away. At the time, I didn't realize how fakely happy this made me. I've had friends tell me that they practice 'friendship evangelism' where they befriend a person they wish to convert. On line, I've received emails from other Christians who asked me not to disagree with them on a particular forum becuase they thought having all the Christians united would help convert the nonChristian members. There have been times when I overheard members of one denomination rabildy put down members of other denominations as nonChristians and watched as they sweetly tried to befriend those same people to win them to the "True" Christian Church.

All this has led me to viewing my former religion with more suspicion then I probably should.

This is the same for me, and it makes me very angry. There are many good Christians out there, I'm sure, but the fundies give them ALL a bad name. Much as I like to think of myself as tolerant of other people's beliefs, I find that I'm always on edge around professed Christians, especially when the offspring is with me.

[pixydust]

I worry when bad things happen that it is God punishing me.

This, all of the time!

[Clementine]

I've never been a true believer, but my family used to go to church when I was a kid, more because of tradition than of faith, and my mother is from a religious area of the country.

The thing that really has stuck with me is the church dress code: don't "go naked" to church (= cover your arms and shoulders and knees), don't wear jeans, don't wear gold jewellry to a funeral. Plus, for brides, a crown and veil and myrtle are symbols of virginity.

I frown every time I see a bride with a strapless gown and almost dropped dead when I saw photos of a visibly pregnant bride who was wearing a strapless gown, a myrtle crown and a long veil. :shock: I know it's none of my business, but I still react every time I see it. Plus, I do think that it was disrespectful of my cousin to wear blue jeans to my grandfather's funeral. Somebody died, would it kill you to just wear a dark suit?

[latraviata]

I've never been a true believer, but my family used to go to church when I was a kid, more because of tradition than of faith, and my mother is from a religious area of the country.

The thing that really has stuck with me is the church dress code: don't "go naked" to church (= cover your arms and shoulders and knees), don't wear jeans, don't wear gold jewellry to a funeral. Plus, for brides, a crown and veil and myrtle are symbols of virginity.

I frown every time I see a bride with a strapless gown and almost dropped dead when I saw photos of a visibly pregnant bride who was wearing a strapless gown, a myrtle crown and a long veil. :shock: I know it's none of my business, but I still react every time I see it. Plus, I do think that it was disrespectful of my cousin to wear blue jeans to my grandfather's funeral. Somebody died, would it kill you to just wear a dark suit?

I agree.

The jewellry thing at funerals is an etiquette thing in my country.

[Clementine]

I agree.

The jewellry thing at funerals is an etiquette thing in my country.

Don't wear gold jewelry or don't wear jewelry at all?

Here you are supposed to wear only silver jewelry and keep it very discrete. I wore small pearl stud earrings and my engagement ring to my grandfather's funeral and that was it. In general, you are supposed to look as plain as possible when you go to a funeral. No high heels. And no big hats or sunglasses.

[latraviata]

Don't wear gold jewelry or don't wear jewelry at all?

Here you are supposed to wear only silver jewelry and keep it very discrete. I wore small pearl stud earrings and my engagement ring to my grandfather's funeral and that was it. In general, you are supposed to look as plain as possible when you go to a funeral. No high heels. And no big hats or sunglasses.

Only pearls, they represent tears. Wedding rings are ok.

The same here, you are supposed to look as plain and modest as possible in order not to distract the attention from the deceased.

[tacky]

I thought about this last night and debated whether to post it. It sounds horrible but I no longer trust Christians.

Me either, because I know first-hand how hypocritical, deceptive, and judgmental they usually are can be.

[B5SnowDog]

I was told to always be a witness for Christ. Any expression of anger or annoyance could turn a nonChristian away. At the time, I didn't realize how fakely happy this made me.

The young Pentecostal woman I mentioned in another thread was like this. We were in an astronomy class together and one night after class the subject of religion came up while we were chit-chatting in the lecture hall; I mentioned I was an atheist. The next evening when we were talking, she kept saying how wonderful her day had been and how happy she was that she had church services the next day. Thankfully she only did that a couple of times because I liked her and it would've been extremely annoying had she continued.

[wtfrenchtoast]

I thought about this last night and debated whether to post it. It sounds horrible but I no longer trust Christians. Being from the south, I've been exposed to several different kinds of evangelism so I've learned the tricks of the trade. I was told to always be a witness for Christ. Any expression of anger or annoyance could turn a nonChristian away. At the time, I didn't realize how fakely happy this made me. I've had friends tell me that they practice 'friendship evangelism' where they befriend a person they wish to convert. On line, I've received emails from other Christians who asked me not to disagree with them on a particular forum becuase they thought having all the Christians united would help convert the nonChristian members. There have been times when I overheard members of one denomination rabildy put down members of other denominations as nonChristians and watched as they sweetly tried to befriend those same people to win them to the "True" Christian Church.

All this has led me to viewing my former religion with more suspicion then I probably should.

That is such a sucky side effect of Christianity. I have a fairly religious friend who's actually going to be a counselor at an apologetics camp this summer. I'm a little worried about what she really thinks about me, and if she would ever try to convert me. She hasn't openly tried, but I wonder about the friendship evangelism thing. It does kind of put me on edge around her, but I think I'm only imagining things.

[tigerchild]

I have a really hard time dealing with clothing modesty issues with my daughter.

She is ten, is already developing, and looks like she is 13. Yet she is very much 10. I do not want to subject her to the disgusting expectations and shaming that I was put through as a child, but I don't even know how to tell her about skirt-wearing etiquette or why I feel uncomfortable allowing her to wear v-neck tops without a tank because I don't know how much of that is legitimate and how much of it is just how I was raised, and while I have mostly gotten over the slut shaming/sex is bad bad bad crap in regards to ME, I was shocked how much of that totally cropped up again in my head when my daughter hit puberty.

[kb2]

Don't wear gold jewelry or don't wear jewelry at all?

Here you are supposed to wear only silver jewelry and keep it very discrete. I wore small pearl stud earrings and my engagement ring to my grandfather's funeral and that was it. In general, you are supposed to look as plain as possible when you go to a funeral. No high heels. And no big hats or sunglasses.

Interesting, in my area women always wear their plain black high heels to funerals--flats are seen as too casual.

[Guest Anonymous]

In times of stress, I always used to silently say say (OK, so "think") the Lord's prayer (Catholic version) to distract myself and focus my mind on something else. I have never thought those words since disassociating myself from of Christianity. I do, however, sometimes find myself fighting hard to avoid thinking the prayer. I know nothing bad will happen to me if I do think the Lord's prayer, but some part of me sees it as a betrayal of myself and the (Jewish) religious community that exists around me.

I do, occasionally, break into the Amidah, or the Sh'ma, or L'Chah Dodi at inappropriate occasions.

[apple1]

When I was at my sister in law's funeral I knew and sang the hymns and recited the Lord's Prayer with everyone else. It was pretty much a Pavlovian reaction and I thought nothing of it. But my dad was actually angry with me for doing it and said "You're an atheist! It's hypocritical." I took the attitude there's no God and so all it was was a gesture of respect, but he kept saying "You prayed the prayer.

FTR (not that my opinion is the be-all-end-all), I consider that a gesture of respect.

[Kitty]

I can't think of many hang-ups I have that can't be contributed to American/Southern culture in general. I left Christianity at 14, so just being so young probably contributed to that.

Often when bad things happen I catch myself thinking "well, everything happens for a reason." There was a wildfire that threatened my neighborhood a few years ago, and I was so angry hearing other people say it. People will say anything to justify believing in a god that will burn down people's homes for his own ends. I also find myself trying not to say "they're in a better place" finding out someone has died. Like in the ground or in a jar is a better place...

I don't know what happened in the last few years, but I used to have a LOT of hangups and now it's like I actively do the opposite or resist doing it. I don't have patience even for the generic somewhat-spiritual sayings.

[Clementine]

Interesting, in my area women always wear their plain black high heels to funerals--flats are seen as too casual.

It's ok to wear a low heel, as long as the shoe is black, plain and discrete. No f*ck-me shoes with really high heels. I have a pair of pumps with a low, chunky heel and round toe (like Mary Jane's but without the strap) that I would never wear anywhere because they are just too frumpy... but they are perfect funeral shoes.

My family cringed when the widow of a distant cousin wore stiletto heels with open toe to the funeral of her husband. (Yes, they are a conservative bunch from a rural area with a lot of Christians.)

[latraviata]

[*My family cringed when the widow of a distant cousin wore stiletto heels with open toe to the funeral of her husband. (Yes, they are a conservative bunch from a rural area with a lot of Christians.]

Has it anything to do with being Christian? Over here it would be considered an etiquette/dresscode thing as well.

I must confess, when my grandmother died I was a very rebellious student (1960/70) very active in 'kicking against the establishment movements'. Just to provoke the family, in particular my mother, I came to the funeral in a denim mini skirt and open bright pink platform sandals. :oops: :oops: :oops:

I still cringe when I think about it. :oops: :oops: :oops: