Modesty Tests for Eight-Year-Old Girls

[RachelB]

If an eight-year-old's parents are concerned about modesty, they shouldn't buy "immodest" items for her in the first place. It's not as if eight-year-olds are driving themselves to the mall and sneaking crop tops and short shorts into the house.

To me, that sounded more like a "have you outgrown this shirt?" test than a "should you buy this shirt?" test. I'm not from a fundy family, but am from one that bought clothing pretty infrequently. I had some t-shirts that started out hip-length that I wore long after they ceased to pass the "raise and praise" test (or would have, if I'd thought to perform that test; we're not that fussed about modesty).

[CanadianHippie]

Kids who go to eeeevil school often have to sit cross-legged on the floor for story time, assemblies, etc., so I guess they figured it "made sense" to test skirts and shorts in that position.

Amid all the other questions about this modesty nonsense--why is the onus being placed on children to make sure they're modestly dressed? If an eight-year-old's parents are concerned about modesty, they shouldn't buy "immodest" items for her in the first place. It's not as if eight-year-olds are driving themselves to the mall and sneaking crop tops and short shorts into the house.

I think Rachel is referring to the sitting crossed-legged in a chair, with one knee on top of the other (which was originally considered to be a hussies way of sitting) versus sitting in a chair with only your ankles crossed (which was how a modest lady was supposed to sit). She's right too, even my Grandma remembers when crossing your legs at the knee meant a woman was looking for sex.

[CanadianHippie]

Here's another example, using Disney Princesses as an example of "modesty" from a Mormon mommy blog.

postpartumprogression.wordpress.com/2012/06/17/when-i-dress-modestly-i-respect-my-body-as-a-gift-from-god/

Gotta love the reasoning that Tinkerbell's dress is immodest: Low back line! She's a freaking fairy, she needs a low back line so her wings don't get smooshed.

[Terrie]

Gotta love the reasoning that Tinkerbell's dress is immodest: Low back line! She's a freaking fairy, she needs a low back line so her wings don't get smooshed.

But, oddly, no mention of the short skirt on the dress.

[Linnea]

Gotta love the reasoning that Tinkerbell's dress is immodest: Low back line! She's a freaking fairy, she needs a low back line so her wings don't get smooshed.

This made me Laugh Out Loud.

[gardenvarietycitizen]

Wow that blog is racist. The Native Americans and Asian clothes are automatically immodest!

Heaven forbid they find out that modern Asian kindergarteners (including the girls!) are known to occasionally have school athletic classes without shirts... think of the German kids at the pool with speedos, only the shorts are thicker.

[valsa]

Heaven forbid they find out that modern Asian kindergarteners (including the girls!) are known to occasionally have school athletic classes without shirts... think of the German kids at the pool with speedos, only the shorts are thicker.

*gasp* But think of the future cleavage they're showing off!

[kb2]

It's weird to tell a kid their future spouse is the one person who can see a body part that their mom, dad, siblings, and close friends (I used to bathe with my friends when I was that age at sleepovers) probably see on a semi-regular basis.

[canela]

Here's another example, using Disney Princesses as an example of "modesty" from a Mormon mommy blog.

postpartumprogression.wordpress.com/2012/06/17/when-i-dress-modestly-i-respect-my-body-as-a-gift-from-god/

An example of too tight clothes-he’s wearing tights.

Umm, yeah his tights are too tight. Or is it the fact that manly men don't wear tights in the first place that makes his clothing objectionable? Also, he has a lot of "future cleavage" showing. Sorry to say that Peter Pan fails across the board.

And 1 modest 3 immodest in this pic:

where the one "modest" guy happens to be voiced by that paragon of cultural sensitivity, Mel Gibson does not boast racism at all.

On a side note, if Pocahantas' betrothed (because they undoubtedly courted like good fundies should) were based on a real person, he would totally have defrauded me as a pre-teen. Or not, because I was a preteen girl and could therefore by definition not have been defrauded.

This whole modesty issue is crazy. The onus for the safety of children's (and women's) bodies should be on society, not on the child. I wish fundies (and mainstream stupids) would teach the members of their community that ALL children (and women) are human beings worthy of love and respect. As such, their bodies are not commodities, nor excuses for criminal behavior, nor spoils of war, nor...

And who cares if someone sees a little kids undies? Little girls' panties and little boys' briefs aren't lingerie. They are not meant to entice, simply to clothe. If you get "intoxicated" by them, you are in the wrong. But there you go, I am too educated and overthink things since I don't have a headship who thinks for me.

[Hane]

Here's another example, using Disney Princesses as an example of "modesty" from a Mormon mommy blog.

postpartumprogression.wordpress.com/2012/06/17/when-i-dress-modestly-i-respect-my-body-as-a-gift-from-god/

Oh, and here's a little judgmental something from the author in the Comments section of her blog:

To the New Order Mormons: the wheat and tares are bundled together for a short season prior to the separation. Enjoy our company while you can.

"New Order Mormons"=more liberal members of the LDS. (The next comment addressed feminists.) This comment was posted shortly after she deleted comments from people who found this modesty-fetishizing to be extreme and inappropriate for children. She's basically telling her opponents that they're going to Mormon Hell if they don't hurry up and teach modesty to kids as young as kindergarten age.

[ShadowyOne]

Among all the other snark-worthiness, this jumped out at me:

Your body is sacred. Respect it and do not defile it in any way.

*snip*

Do not disfigure yourself with tattoos or body piercings. Young women, if you desire to have your ears pierced, wear only one pair of earrings.

Why does one set of ear piercings NOT defile a woman, but more than one does? If any piercings defile a person, then even one should be against her rules. Hypocrite.

Also, at the risk of being an irredemable punctuation nazi, I must confess that it bugs me that each of her paragraphs begins with a set of open quotes that are never closed at the end of the paragraph. Of course, I also have the urge to sneak up with paint to correct a sign that I pass almost daily outside of a martial arts studio that reads "Kid's Jiu Jitsu." :roll:

[NurseNell]

WTF? This really makes me mad. I hate the sexualization of childrens bodies. I have to admit that I am not a big fan of a lot of the stuff you can buy for preteen girls either. They are often like clothes for adults and don't seem to be fitting for KIDS! .

My granddaughter is 8 years old, 5'2", 120 lbs. It is really hard to buy age appropriate clothes for her. Swimsuits aren't a problem, she's on the swim team, they have to wear TYR or Speedo one piece suits. We had to buy her 1st Communion dress at a bridal ship as none of the stores carrying 1st Communion dresses had any even close to fitting her.

[thoughtful]

Oh, and here's a little judgmental something from the author in the Comments section of her blog:

Hmmm, nastiness and crazy obsession with modesty in children in the same person.

Why am I not surprised.

[cindyluvs24]

And they go on tour! Yup, mommies and kiddos can buy tickets to see this in person. Of course, its all part of her ministry, right? :think:

[formergothardite]

I'm trying to figure out how I could even explain to my soon to be eight year old that her tummy would intoxicate men and that is why she has to keep it covered.

[alba]

Here's another example, using Disney Princesses as an example of "modesty" from a Mormon mommy blog.

postpartumprogression.wordpress.com/2012/06/17/when-i-dress-modestly-i-respect-my-body-as-a-gift-from-god/

The sidebar says "I make babies. What's your superpower?"

What next? "I have sex. What's your superpower?" ?

Also, at the risk of being an irredemable punctuation nazi, I must confess that it bugs me that each of her paragraphs begins with a set of open quotes that are never closed at the end of the paragraph. Of course, I also have the urge to sneak up with paint to correct a sign that I pass almost daily outside of a martial arts studio that reads "Kid's Jiu Jitsu." :roll:

That's actually grammatically correct. She quotes a single passage in multiple paragraphs, and when doing so it is entirely correct to open the quotation marks at the beginning of each paragraph and close them at the end of the full passage.

The "Kid's Jiu Jitsu" would piss me off, though. Have you read Eats, Shoots and Leaves? I laughed so hard reading that.

[JaChelle Sugar]

And here I was thinking one of these day's I'm gonna have something more articulate to say than 'the fuck???' but these fundy's man, they keep leaving me speechless.

[itsnikki05]

I just want my child to dress like a CHILD and not a teenager/adult. (And I don't like to show her little belly when she's in a tshirt and shorts or whatever anyways! She's 5 for cryin out loud!)

ETA: And I'm all for letting a child have a little freedom when it comes to the way they dress... if Julia wants to wear her Spiderman tshirt instead of a girly top, I'll let her! It's ultimately up to the parent. If you don't want to see your children in certain clothing... NEWSFLASH! DON'T BUY IT FOR THEM! Easy peasy. :)

Also: I just remembered something... as a child... my mother wasn't too big on modesty or whatever.. or she didn't make a big deal out of it. But one time, my friend and I were in my little splash pool and decided we liked each other's swimsuits better and started to swap right out there in the yard! LOL! My mom... oh you woulda thought I did something horrible! It's pretty funny when I look back on it.

And modesty swimsuits look dumb. I prefer the kind with the rash guards, just 'cause my daughter is pale as a darn ghost, and that's a little less area to have to cover with sunscreen. Then again, she also has a cute little two piece that shows a LOT of belly and has little ruffles at the top... so cute. :) (Not a triangle top. It's cut more like a regular swimsuit.)

[bananacat]

I actually don't care about kids wearing "revealing" clothes at all. When I was a kid in the 80s, A/C was not very common in residential houses in my small town. I never wore a short during the summer. I have some adorable home videos of myself and my female cousin playing outside in just shorts, and also my dad was shirtless with just shirts and hilarious tube socks. He never got "defrauded" by two 5 year-old girls wearing almost nothing.

All the kids would play shirtless at my daycare too. I guess one day someone complained because suddenly there was a new rule that the boys could remain shirtless but the girls had to wear shirts and just tie them up. It's effing ridiculous that I had to suffer more in the heat just to hide the place where my breasts would eventually be. Luckily that rule didn't last long.

And I don't care about kids hiding underwear either. One of the purposes of having underwear in the first place is to cover the genitals when regular clothing flaps in the breeze or gets pulled to the side. It's ridiculous to be strict about covering the thing that is covering your privates. I've seen photos of my mom and aunt in the idyllic 50s that fundies love to fantasize about. They both wore short dresses and you could see their underwear in most pictures. That's why they wore underwear. People weren't so obsessed about prepubescent modesty back then.

As for bathing suits, I hope you all realize that cloth isn't perfect sun protection so even if you pick one with more coverage, you still need to apply sunscreen underneath the suit.

[freejoytoo]

It makes me very, very stabby when people have no problem with boys walking around shirtless but a prepubescent girl doing the same is somehow disgusting. Like she has any more breasts than they do.

Children should never have to worry about stuff being 'revealing'. They're kids, for god's sake.

[Katiebug]

We have this one in pink for our toddler when she's swimming outside (mainly the beach):

It has nothing to do with modesty and everything to do making my life easier. She's a very fair child, and the UPF 50 fabric means slightly less insanity in ensuring every single inch of her body is coated in sunblock. We put her in tankinis or short sleeve rash guards when we swim at the indoor pool at the Y, but that's because tanks are a PITA with a young child.

That website is FITH. I want our daughter to dress in a decent way, and I cringe when I see some of the clothes they're selling to girls just a few years older than her, but I don't want her dressing to avoid "enticing" some grown pervert or because God doesn't want her to wear a shirt that shows any "future cleavage".

[Roli]

Slide #5 tells girls how to test their mother's modesty.

[...]Maybe you can have your mom take this test! Ask her to place the tips of her fingers together and press into her shirt right in the "valley" between the breasts! Count to three and have her take her fingers away. If her shirt springs back like a small trampoline, it is too tight!

[Glass Cowcatcher]

Slide #5 tells girls how to test their mother's modesty.

The hell?

Just about any shirt in the world will do that. I'm wearing a shirt about 3 sizes too big, and I still have trampoline boobs.

[ShadowyOne]

The sidebar says "I make babies. What's your superpower?"

What next? "I have sex. What's your superpower?" ?

That's actually grammatically correct. She quotes a single passage in multiple paragraphs, and when doing so it is entirely correct to open the quotation marks at the beginning of each paragraph and close them at the end of the full passage.

The "Kid's Jiu Jitsu" would piss me off, though. Have you read Eats, Shoots and Leaves? I laughed so hard reading that.

:oops: So embarrassing... I knew that, too, but I think that work fried my brain that day to the point where it just visually didn't feel right, and I had a gut reaction. I ADORE "Eats, Shoots, and Leaves" and in fact just quoted the titular joke to someone today!

eta: when I see the Jiu Jitsu sign, I always think "that kid is really lucky to have a one-on-one class!"

and also edited for the department of redundancy department

[deelaem]

This reminds me of what my older sister told me about when she went to Catholic school in the 50's. The nuns wouldn't let them wear shiny patent leather shoes, because the boys could use them to look under their dresses. :shock: