Modesty Tests for Eight-Year-Old Girls

[Katiebug]

The hell?

Just about any shirt in the world will do that. I'm wearing a shirt about 3 sizes too big, and I still have trampoline boobs.

I know, right? How baggy does a shirt have to be before this little trampoline trick won't work? A freaking muumuu?

(I guess I should be grateful to still have trampoline boobs after nearly two years of breastfeeding - thank sweet baby Jesus for a good bra).

[CanadianHippie]

The sidebar says "I make babies. What's your superpower?"

What next? "I have sex. What's your superpower?" ?

Ugh, unless she's making babies via parthenogenesis, it's not a super power. It's natures way of making sure a species can continue on past the current generation.

[ceg045]

Slide #5 tells girls how to test their mother's modesty.

Pardon the fuck out of me, but where does this twatwaffle get off deeming proper standards for modesty? Or is there some biblical verse I've missed?

"And lo, the woman asked the LORD, "How shall I know that I am attired in a fashion pleasing to God?" And the LORD replied, "Look no further than the fabric across your breasts. If thou should press it into the intervening valley and it does not rebel, then thou art deemed a modest and righteous woman. If the fabric shall arise from betwixt the bosoms, then lo, thou art a strumpet."

[snarkbillie]

Pardon the fuck out of me, but where does this twatwaffle get off deeming proper standards for modesty? Or is there some biblical verse I've missed?

"And lo, the woman asked the LORD, "How shall I know that I am attired in a fashion pleasing to God?" And the LORD replied, "Look no further than the fabric across your breasts. If thou should press it into the intervening valley and it does not rebel, then thou art deemed a modest and righteous woman. If the fabric shall arise from betwixt the bosoms, then lo, thou art a strumpet."

LMAO. :lol:

[Anxious Girl]

* whoops, big mistake * I misread it as Amazing Atheist, not Friendly Atheist. * sorry for the misread, folks* :oops: But yeah, that shit's still batshit insane. What's next, Christian burqas?

[freejoytoo]

I actually worry there's a possibility of people going down that path. There seems to have been a lot of hype about modesty lately, though that might just be me.

[Vex]

I actually worry there's a possibility of people going down that path. There seems to have been a lot of hype about modesty lately, though that might just be me.

There is a definitely curve towards conservatism in the US, probably linked to the increase in the number of fundamentalist Christians.

[JesusFightClub]

I hate to say this but I'm 30 and I'm about as pretty as a brick.

[Katiebug]

I don't have a problem with my kid wearing modest clothing, because I wear modest clothing. Part of that is my general shape (no one wants to see a size 16 woman sporting booty shorts) and part of it is personal preference. I wear skirts that are around knee length. I wear Bermuda shorts rather than Daisy Dukes. I don't wear a tank top out in public (although I have worn sleeveless blouses/tops with more coverage). I have issues with my arms, my abdomen, and my upper legs so I keep them covered so as not to subject the rest of the world to the sight of those areas of me. This is probably not what most of the fundies mean by "modest", though!

Let's put it this way - I will not be buying my future 8 year old any pants/shorts with words emblazoned across the rear. She won't be wearing a miniskirt, she won't be wearing belly-baring tops, etc. Likewise any sons we have will be expected to wear decent, neat clothing. It has nothing to do with religion and everything to do with how we want our kids to present themselves to the world. When they're old enough to earn money to buy their own clothes then they can have sole control over what they buy. Until then, their clothes will be selected with input from their parents.

[LilMissMetaphor]

My granddaughter is 8 years old, 5'2", 120 lbs. It is really hard to buy age appropriate clothes for her. Swimsuits aren't a problem, she's on the swim team, they have to wear TYR or Speedo one piece suits. We had to buy her 1st Communion dress at a bridal ship as none of the stores carrying 1st Communion dresses had any even close to fitting her.

Try looking at Lands End or Hanna Andersson, though the latter is quite pricy IMO. Their girls' stuff is cute and designed as activewear, it's not skin-tight and LE carries the plus sizes for kids as well. Your granddaughter might fit the regular 14 or the plus 14 based on those numbers.

They seem to carry fancier/dressier stuff around the holidays mostly.

My 9-year-old is anti-dress and anti-pink, but when she wasn't, I got this for her:

http://www.hannaandersson.com/style.asp ... =38562_66M

We also really liked the skorts from LE and I buy her the rashguard swim stuff from there as well, not so much for the modesty factor but for the sun coverage.

[LilMissMetaphor]

Pardon the fuck out of me, but where does this twatwaffle get off deeming proper standards for modesty? Or is there some biblical verse I've missed?

"And lo, the woman asked the LORD, "How shall I know that I am attired in a fashion pleasing to God?" And the LORD replied, "Look no further than the fabric across your breasts. If thou should press it into the intervening valley and it does not rebel, then thou art deemed a modest and righteous woman. If the fabric shall arise from betwixt the bosoms, then lo, thou art a strumpet."

This was awesome, by the way.

[Arete]

^ Seconded. :mrgreen:

[JesusFightClub]

My granddaughter is 8 years old, 5'2", 120 lbs. It is really hard to buy age appropriate clothes for her. Swimsuits aren't a problem, she's on the swim team, they have to wear TYR or Speedo one piece suits. We had to buy her 1st Communion dress at a bridal ship as none of the stores carrying 1st Communion dresses had any even close to fitting her.

She's taller and weighs more than I do at 30!

Great though. Is she sporty in other ways than swimming? Rugby teams would love to have her.

[bananacat]

This is sort of related to the thread about fundies' complete lack of awareness about history. Even the most modest fundies would be considered complete and utter whores by the modesty standards of just about a century ago. But by the standards of that same time period, they would have also been considered complete and utter prudes for obsessing about the modesty of children. In recent history people just didn't care that much about modesty for anyone who hadn't reached puberty yet. But modesty is completely relative and anyone bragging about dressing modestly would easily be considered immodest by somebody's standard.

[Three and Done]

My granddaughter is 8 years old, 5'2", 120 lbs. It is really hard to buy age appropriate clothes for her. Swimsuits aren't a problem, she's on the swim team, they have to wear TYR or Speedo one piece suits. We had to buy her 1st Communion dress at a bridal ship as none of the stores carrying 1st Communion dresses had any even close to fitting her.

I can commiserate - my just-turned-twelve yr old is 5'5" and 150 lbs. She isn't obese (she wears a junior size 3 or 5), she's just a large, athletic child. Buying her appropriate clothes that fit properly has been an issue for years.

[StarrieEyedKat]

(no one wants to see a size 16 woman sporting booty shorts)

I know you didn't intend this, but you're kind of insulting a lot of people with that statement. I don't really want to see anyone wearing booty shorts, but I know a number of size 16 women that have hawt bodies.

[WokChop]

In regards to this comment made by the Mormon blogger:

The sidebar says "I make babies. What's your superpower?"

This relates to what Mormon females are taught from a young age.

Being a "priesthood holder" is a HUGE thing in the Mormon church. A priesthood holder is given authority and power from God, to act in his name and perform certain ordinances; however, only men can hold the priesthood. The church attempts to pacify women, who may start questioning this misogynistic practice, by teaching them that, "You have superpowers too!!!!!!! You can bear children!!!!!!!! That's YOUR superspecial superpower!!!!!!!!!! Men can't do THAT!!!!!!!!!!"

My daughter had this message drilled into her head constantly when she was in Young Womens. Every Mormon woman I knew bought it hook, line, and sinker...on the surface anyway. I have to wonder if they really believed it or if they were trying to convince themselves of it's veracity. :(

Oh, and when my daughter was in Young Womens, she had a leader who counseled the girls in what types of sexual acts were and were not appropriate. I don't think that teaching 12-year-old girls that oral sex is evil is appropriate. And, no, I had no idea any of this stuff was going on until we resigned from the Mormon church. I had been an adult convert and had no idea of the sick stuff Mormon children were subjected to. Needless to say, I have dealt with a lot of guilt for exposing my kids to that. Ugh.

[notacleverpony]

Trigger warning for ED and body-shaming.

I don't have a problem with my kid wearing modest clothing, because I wear modest clothing. Part of that is my general shape (no one wants to see a size 16 woman sporting booty shorts) and part of it is personal preference. I wear skirts that are around knee length. I wear Bermuda shorts rather than Daisy Dukes. I don't wear a tank top out in public (although I have worn sleeveless blouses/tops with more coverage). I have issues with my arms, my abdomen, and my upper legs so I keep them covered so as not to subject the rest of the world to the sight of those areas of me.

Seriously, what's up with the body-shaming? I give not a single fuck about what you wear and why, but I do give several fucks when your reasons are phrased in shaming language. How do you know what people want to see in re: booty shorts? More importantly, why the flippity fuck should you, I, or anyone else care what anyone else wants to see? My standards for clothing are my own (eating-disordered though they may be) and if someone doesn't like what I'm wearing, there are 340 other degrees they can look at without making unnecessary comments about the acceptability of my body. I refuse to try and minimize my own existence. (Especially when it's 98F in New England. BLEH.)

[LilMissMetaphor]

Yeah, I agree, that's a crappy thing to say, as if there's a certain size beyond which you're not "supposed" to wear certain clothing. It's not as if the scale has to read a particular number before you can be like, oh phew, I can safely wear my booty shorts now. :roll:

[Three and Done]

It doesn't matter what size you are - you may still have body image issues. I am a recovered anorexic and even at my lowest weight and size (I was lucky if I could find anything small AND long enough at 5'6" and 98 lbs) I still felt that there were certain things I couldn't wear.

I am now a normal weight for my height (135) but still refuse to wear shorts 99% of the time. It's been pushing 90 for days here (with the heat index much higher), yet I don't feel comfortable baring skin even in the privacy of my home.

My point is that body issues are not related to weight, they're psychological. I don't believe the post was meant as "body shaming", rather that the poster was speaking her own personal thoughts.

*Edited for clarity - ze rum and the ebil heat are getting to me!

[deelaem]

It doesn't matter what size you are - you may still have body image issues. I am a recovered anorexic and even at my lowest weight and size (I was lucky if I could find anything small AND long enough at 5'6" and 98 lbs) I still felt that there were certain things I couldn't wear.

I am now a normal weight for my height (135) but still refuse to wear shorts 99% of the time. It's been pushing 90 for days here (with the heat index much higher), yet I don't feel comfortable baring skin even in the privacy of my home.

My point is that body issues are not related to weight, they're psychological. I don't believe the post was meant as "body shaming", rather that the poster was speaking her own personal thoughts.

*Edited for clarity - ze rum and the ebil heat are getting to me!

I agree, but the psychological damage is done by the misogynist, patriarchal society we live in. It's not the fault of women. It tells women that there are either too much or not enough of something. It really doesn't matter if you're a supermodel, there will be something about you that won't be approved of. I really wish we'd rise up and say "fuck that shit, I am what I am and if you don't like it, it's your problem, so kiss my non-patriarchal-compliant ass!" :twisted:

[snarkbillie]

I agree, but the psychological damage is done by the misogynist, patriarchal society we live in. It's not the fault of women. It tells women that there are either too much or not enough of something. It really doesn't matter if you're a supermodel, there will be something about you that won't be approved of. I really wish we'd rise up and say "fuck that shit, I am what I am and if you don't like it, it's your problem, so kiss my non-patriarchal-compliant ass!" :twisted:

Agreed. I would like to also add what I tell my daughters: We are human beings, we are not "things to look at". I don't give a flying fuck if society sees me as "too fat" I'm gonna put on my swimsuit and jump in the freaking pool. I don't exist to please other people.

[CanadianHippie]

I agree, but the psychological damage is done by the misogynist, patriarchal society we live in. It's not the fault of women. It tells women that there are either too much or not enough of something. It really doesn't matter if you're a supermodel, there will be something about you that won't be approved of. I really wish we'd rise up and say "fuck that shit, I am what I am and if you don't like it, it's your problem, so kiss my non-patriarchal-compliant ass!" :twisted:

95% of the body shaming I've encountered comes directly from women either shaming themselves, or other women.

[deelaem]

95% of the body shaming I've encountered comes directly from women either shaming themselves, or other women.

I realize you exist to defend men, but why do you think women do that to each other? Does it just happen in a bubble? No, it comes from the impossible standards for beauty set by a patriarchal society; a society that also rewards women for being cruel to other women. Great way to keep them in their place, while the great, non-emotional men get to laugh over what women do to each other.

My guess is that you'd be one of those women that run other women down. I've seen very few women who hate women more than you do.

[notacleverpony]

Agreed. I would like to also add what I tell my daughters: We are human beings, we are not "things to look at". I don't give a flying fuck if society sees me as "too fat" I'm gonna put on my swimsuit and jump in the freaking pool. I don't exist to please other people.