Modesty Tests for Eight-Year-Old Girls

[QAF_Rocks]

Friendly Atheist just posted some "modesty tests" from an evangelical Christian company called Secret Keeper Girl:

http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friendlyatheist/2012/06/27/the-ugly-side-of-modesty

Creepiness made even creepier by the fact that it's aimed at pre-pubescent children. :x

[Maude]

No kidding. These modesty folks continue to bitch about mainstream culture sexualizing young girls when they're doing the same damn thing with this modesty crap! If Grandpa is getting turned on by a prepubescent girl, he's the one with the issues. :? :angry-banghead:

[QAF_Rocks]

Ugh, more creepiness at the Secret Keeper Girl website:

Why did you choose the name Secret Keeper Girl?

Originally, Secret Keeper was a book for teen girls about how to keep the deepest secrets of your beauty for just one man. It was very successful and we chose to use that name to approach teens in an age appropriate way about issues of modesty and purity. It is certainly not our intent to encourage girls to be secretive. You'll see our events and resources are a way to get moms and girls talking, talking, talking about everything.

What is the benefit of talking to my young daughter about the subject of modesty before she even begins to develop?

I was already talking to teen girls about modesty, when I developed Secret Keeper Girl initially to take that message to a younger audience. Why? Well, I learned that sexual values are formed between the ages of 8-10. It seems to me that modesty would be best taught during that important developmental phase. On a lighter note, it’s just easier to talk to a younger girl about modesty before her body is starting to develop. She’s not nearly as self-conscience and she finds that it’s really fun to take the Secret Keeper Girl Truth or Bare Fashion Tests!

What about swimsuits? What kind of guidelines do you use to determine if a swimsuit is modest?

I encourage girls and women to consider that the Truth or Bare Fashion tests apply whether you are swimming or going to a formal event. (That’s another place where modesty sometimes gets forgotten.) You should still be able to pass “The Palm Pilot†because the neckline isn’t too low. You should be able to raise your hands without showing too much belly. (I’m not a hard and fast one-piece girl, because I find sometimes tankinis are far less revealing.) The key is being able to move around without any …ah…er…â€strategic parts†falling out. Best of all, I encourage you to treat yourselves to a really cool beach cover up. When you’re sunning or snacking poolside, throw this on for a modest approach to swimsuits! And remember to wear your swimsuit when you’re swimming but not to Uncle Fred’s backyard bar-b-que. There’s nothing modest about that!

What about my son? Is there something out there for him?

As the mother of a son, Robby, I am as concerned about boys as you are. Secret Keeper Girl delves into the unique world of girls. However, I have some ideas for you if you are looking for something for sons. First of all, my husband and I co-wrote a book for teen boys called “Who Moved The Goalpost?†It deals with mental temptation and visual virginity as well as the guy/girl relationship. You can purchase it at our online bookstore...For younger boys, my husband used FamilyLife’s “Teknon And The Champion Warrior†to talk to our son about issues of courage, honor, integrity and mental toughness. I highly recommend it for tweens or middle school boys.

http://www.secretkeepergirl.com/FAQ.aspx

[Anise]

What I am wondering is how can someone see future cleavage. How can one cover parts of the body that don't exactly exist yet? :?

[Evilbad]

I don't think there's anything wrong with making sure a girl learns to not show her undies, I also think this goes way too far in having a young girl do a cleavage check. They don't even have any cleavage yet. Hell, in pools here in Germany, I see lots of young girls wearing speedo bottoms and that's it. Most girls are androgynous at this age; they shouldn't have to worry about that kind of stuff.

[YPestis]

I guess the idea is to teach girls what to cover before they have anything to cover. To me, it seems it could result in teaching girls to be ashamed about their bodies.

[luckystone]

No kidding. These modesty folks continue to bitch about mainstream culture sexualizing young girls when they're doing the same damn thing with this modesty crap!

QFT

[QAF_Rocks]

I don't think there's anything wrong with making sure a girl learns to not show her undies.

Nothing wrong with that, but I would apply it equally to boys and girls. However, there's something much more sinister going on with this underwear test. Did you notice that they are obsessed with making sure the underpants can't be seen through clothing? It's not just that the underwear isn't sticking out; it's that you shouldn't be able to see the outline or the seams of the panties. I can't think of any reason a sane person should be worrying about whether or not they can see the panty line of an eight-year-old girl.

[darkplumaged]

"Bellies are very intoxicating"?

First, great message for a child, that parts of their bodies are "intoxicating" to the opposite sex. :roll:

Second, bellies are far from universally appealing. There's a reason I keep my poochy stomach covered at all times, and it's not because it incites lust in every man around.

And yeah--"future cleavage"? Ugh! Such young girls should barely be aware of the shape of their own bodies, IMO. (Yes, I know that elementary schoolers talk about being too fat and going on diets, but that's not good.)

[Guest Anonymous]

I guess the idea is to teach girls what to cover before they have anything to cover. To me, it seems it could result in teaching girls to be ashamed about their bodies.

As far as the authors of this dreck are concerned, I'm sure that's a feature, not a bug.

[Sola]

Urgh, yeah we had a thread on this a while back. I remember clicking on the link and making the mistake of doing so while my daughter was around. She's like a magnet to anything pink and girly and this site has it by the bucket load. I had to give her the 'don't you ever go to this site' talk!

[ophelia]

WTF? This really makes me mad. I hate the sexualization of childrens bodies. I have to admit that I am not a big fan of a lot of the stuff you can buy for preteen girls either. They are often like clothes for adults and don't seem to be fitting for KIDS! Nevertheless this whole modesty crap makes me even more angry. A girl of 8 yrs. hasn't got to cover anything. I actually prefer seeing a girl in that age naked on the beach than in a tight (sometimes even sexy looking) bikini or in those damn wholesame bathing suits.

[Hevcoh]

I couldn't read beyond the first point where I realized they will all share a husband, and they need to reserve their bellies for their husband. It might just be the Irishman in me, but that's multiple girls+1husband for me.

That said, I hate when underwear is showing on a kid. Or an adult.

[Maul the Koala]

Yes because men can't control themselves at the sight of me in my sports bra and pants when I'm in dance practice. :roll: I'm pretty sure my SAVE THE VIRGINS t-shirt gets much more attention than me prancing around in my sports bra. And the SAVE THE VIRGINS shirt is pretty darn modest by their standards.

[sippin0nsunshine]

I'll admit the shirt test was something we did when I was younger, but only because my mother didn't want me wearing such outfits to school. The rest of this crap? Blech.

Lets address this:

1. Shirts: Yes, you can make sure your child's shirt is long enough WITHOUT calling it "modesty", and it doesn't apply to just girls. I did it and my brothers did it.

2. Short Shorts/Skirts: Again, nothing to do with modesty, more appropriateness. There is nothing sexual about a child's body so there is no need for "modesty" on their part. I didn't wear short shorts or skirts to school, but at home if I wore a short skirt, I had shorts under it. But then, my mother made sure not to buy me items that didn't fit me correctly.

3. Pants? It's not okay to see the outline of someone's undies? Really? Buy clothes that fit right and you won't have to worry about showing undies. Not that an accidental peek of the top of a girls undies, or the outline of them is going to "entice" an 8 year old boy.

4. Future cleavage? Way to teach girls that their body is something to be ashamed of. They shouldn't have to worry about covering cleavage until, you know, they actually have some!

[freejoytoo]

These people are fucked in the head, I feel seriously sick. If you are getting turned on by a child then YOU are the one with issues. They cry about teenagers growing up too young and they're the ones who are sexualising children. A child should never have to worry about modesty.

[Hane]

Bellies are intoxicating, and we need to save that for our husband.

I just threw up in my mouth a little. The idea that someone in grade school should have to worry about the sexual "needs" of someone she may never even meet? Where is the "vomit" smilie when I need it?

And the reference to "Grandpa" seeing a little girl's underwear or "Uncle Fred" seeing a little girl in a bathing suit at his picnic? It sounds as if we must assume Grandpa and Uncle Fred are perverts who would be driven over the edge at the sight of a little girl's undies or tankini.

[Funky Chicken]

I couldn't read beyond the first point where I realized they will all share a husband, and they need to reserve their bellies for their husband. It might just be the Irishman in me, but that's multiple girls+1husband for me.

That said, I hate when underwear is showing on a kid. Or an adult.

Well, one way to guarantee people can see the outline of your undies is to wear white ones under white pants. If you don't want people to see them they need to be flesh colored - or is that "bad" because people might think you're not wearing any?

[Sola]

Who finds an 8 year old's belly 'intoxicating'? A pedo, that's who.

[No Fun My Babe]

You know that commercial where the pig is smiling and going "Whee!" "Whee Whee Wheeeee!" Well, imagine me doing that right now. Except substitute a nauseated barf face and the word "Ewwww!". What the fuck is wrong with these people? I imagine many bibles could be filled answering that question.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H8ZDV3fvaXM

ETA: A link for Non-Americans (not sure where they show this) or U.S. people who haven't seen it.

[FlorenceHamilton]

Visual virginity? :shock:

[luckystone]

WTF? This really makes me mad. I hate the sexualization of childrens bodies. I have to admit that I am not a big fan of a lot of the stuff you can buy for preteen girls either. They are often like clothes for adults and don't seem to be fitting for KIDS! Nevertheless this whole modesty crap makes me even more angry. A girl of 8 yrs. hasn't got to cover anything. I actually prefer seeing a girl in that age naked on the beach than in a tight (sometimes even sexy looking) bikini or in those damn wholesame bathing suits.

So true. There are some bizarre things sold for young girls here, very adult clothing obviously designed to enhance certain features and be attractive, it looks weird on kids. But yes I think I'd prefer that to the modesty thing...I think :?

I don't think even showing underwear is that big a deal, I used to see it all the time both attending school/pre-school and working in them. Girls would wear skirts sometimes and then hang upside down on the monkey bars. Sometimes other kids would laugh but 90% of the time I noticed nobody said anything and it was quite common, up until maybe age 8. I don't know if this has changed.

[TudorRose]

I went to the Secret Keepers Girls website, and the last slide talks about "your clavical."

I grew up fundy and I was 30 before I learned about flesh colored bras being more discreet than white. That should SO have been mentioned in my endless modesty trainings.

[crawfishgirl]

Just an interesting story about the other end of the spectrum: my daughter was in 3rd grade at a Catholic school this past year, and the kids wore the normal private school uniform (long plaid skorts, etc). All of the kids would complain occasionally, since they liked to wear regular clothes. The head 'mean girl' of the 3rd grade class would tell the other kids that she hated the uniform, because all of her regular clothes were "sexy", and she wanted to wear more "sexy clothes". I was surprised, and saddened, when my daughter told me this. A nine year old shouldn't be concerned about being sexy. Through the grapevine, I heard that her parents think she is funny and cool, and encourage this behavior. Such a shame - she needs the opportunity to just be a kid, and to not worry about things that she is too young to handle or truly understand at this age.

[TXDuck]

Like I said in the other thread about this site, you can manage to raise kids who don't show their undies to people without ever mentioning the words "modesty" or "intoxicating" and without ever making them think "What if Grandpa sees my underwear?!" Like others have pointed out, they manage to sexual little girls in far more harmful ways than the mainstream culture against which they rail.

We have "appropriate" ways of dressing. You wouldn't wear a swimsuit to school. Don't where your Easter dress to the pool. Covering your belly means you have to put on less sunscreen. And no one wants to see your underwear, ever. If you think you will be hanging upside down at any point during the day and you want to wear a skirt/dress, God invented bloomers for a reason. (Also, bicycle shorts work.)

Seriously, fundies, it is beyond the pale to tell an 8 year old that some body parts are reserved for her future husband or that sight of her unmentionables might tempt a relative. It is just as sick and perverted as padded string bikinis for said age group. It is forcing sexuality on them, a sexuality they are too young for. It is just as warping as parents crawfishgirl mentions. Stop it.