Snark from imamother on niddah idiocy

[2xx1xy1JD]

Article on man who flagged down a truck driver, saying he was an Orthodox Jew who couldn't touch his wife who was giving birth in the car.

http://www.nypost.com/p/news/local/need ... tent=Local

Snarkfest on imamother (board for Orthodox Jewish women) about this article, from the Blogger Formerly Known as OSM:

imamother.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=188104&postdays=0&postorder=asc&&start=0 Chossid Shoteh means "pious idiot", as in someone who thinks that they are being super-pious but is actually lacking in basic common sense or decency.

[Koala]

Lord have mercy....

[pixydust]

Hey, moron (the father, not OP)...Niddah doesn't apply here! You need to suck it up, be a man, and deliver your damn baby. God, I hope that no one I know reads about this, I'm going to have a hard time explaining this stupidity to the non-Jews!

[Hevcoh]

Hey, moron (the father, not OP)...Niddah doesn't apply here! You need to suck it up, be a man, and deliver your damn baby. God, I hope that no one I know reads about this, I'm going to have a hard time explaining this stupidity to the non-Jews!

The questions have started here. I'm just glad I'll be asleep while most of my friends will be online...

[pixydust]

The questions have started here. I'm just glad I'll be asleep while most of my friends will be online...

I bet! Are you getting a lot of "WTF?!?" I'm going to keep an eye on facebook like a hawk.

[Hevcoh]

I bet! Are you getting a lot of "WTF?!?" I'm going to keep an eye on facebook like a hawk.

Yep. I try explaining to them that common sense is not everyone's strong side, and that stupidity is equal opportunity for all religions. So we get our share, too.

[pixydust]

Yep. I try explaining to them that common sense is not everyone's strong side, and that stupidity is equal opportunity for all religions. So we get our share, too.

That's good! I will try and remember that as a come back!

[Buzzard]

Sooooo just so we're on the same page here... Its better to let a complete and total strange man see your wife's vagina and catch your newborn than it is for you to touch her blood?

Thats one fucked up interpretation! Definitely not what I was taught in hebrew school!

[darkplumaged]

Sooooo just so we're on the same page here... Its better to let a complete and total strange man see your wife's vagina and catch your newborn than it is for you to touch her blood?

This is what I don't understand!

[RR88]

If this wife were safely delivering the baby in a hospital or under the care of a licensed midwife, though, her husband would be right to refuse to touch her once her water had broken, or even catch the baby as it exited its mother's body. If the mother is not in danger and has someone else who can deliver the baby, her husband may not touch her...but that's SO MUCH more sensible and kind, right? :roll:

[bananacat]

Yeah, I'm not really a big fan of this argument that niddah is fine and dandy because it doesn't apply in "common sense" situations. Yes, it's ridiculous that a man can't touch his wife during labor. But quite frankly, it's just as ridiculous that he can't touch her during normal menstruation. I've even had sex during my period and while I realize it's not for everybody, it's not some huge gigantic deal.

[DistantStar]

I would think a birth-in-car situation would override any rules, as I put that in the category of major emergencies, without getting anywhere near my opinion of such rules.

[BabyFullOfSin]

absurd! :?

[BabyFullOfSin]

Yeah, I'm not really a big fan of this argument that niddah is fine and dandy because it doesn't apply in "common sense" situations. Yes, it's ridiculous that a man can't touch his wife during labor. But quite frankly, it's just as ridiculous that he can't touch her during normal menstruation. I've even had sex during my period and while I realize it's not for everybody, it's not some huge gigantic deal.

yup on all counts

[BabyFullOfSin]

I would think a birth-in-car situation would override any rules, as I put that in the category of major emergencies, without getting anywhere near my opinion of such rules.

agreed - as I told my husband as we raced through red lights on the way to the hospital as I post-partum hemorrhaged, "if a police officer pulls us over, I'll deal with him/her". I think I could have convinced the officer that no normal rules were appropriate!

[BabyFullOfSin]

agreed - as I told my husband as we raced through red lights on the way to the hospital as I post-partum hemorrhaged, "if a police officer pulls us over, I'll deal with him/her". I think I could have convinced the officer that no normal rules were appropriate!

(it was 2:30am and we were not endangering others as there were very few other cars about and we raced 'carefully' ;) through the red lights)

[RR88]

Yeah, I'm not really a big fan of this argument that niddah is fine and dandy because it doesn't apply in "common sense" situations. Yes, it's ridiculous that a man can't touch his wife during labor. But quite frankly, it's just as ridiculous that he can't touch her during normal menstruation. I've even had sex during my period and while I realize it's not for everybody, it's not some huge gigantic deal.

Thanks for putting it more bluntly than I could. :)

[Sola]

How can they do that? When I was in labour I needed my hubby's touch. He rubbed my back, held me while I puked and held my legs up for me so I had something to push against. I can't imagine not being able to be touched, it's a bit like the whole silent birth thing with scientology.

[Hevcoh]

How can they do that? When I was in labour I needed my hubby's touch. He rubbed my back, held me while I puked and held my legs up for me so I had something to push against. I can't imagine not being able to be touched, it's a bit like the whole silent birth thing with scientology.

When my twins were born, their mother ordered us out. For her it was something between her and the babies. My sister is adamant that her husband will not go anywhere near her while she is giving birth, but she asked both our step mom and her mother-in-law to be there. So I guess it's different for everyone, and culture and upbringing also influence these choices.

[lilith]

When my twins were born, their mother ordered us out. For her it was something between her and the babies. My sister is adamant that her husband will not go anywhere near her while she is giving birth, but she asked both our step mom and her mother-in-law to be there. So I guess it's different for everyone, and culture and upbringing also influence these choices.

I'm sure it is.

I had to put my foot down incredibly firmly to prevent my former mother in law from entering the room when I was in labor with my first child. Even then she sat outside knitting and complaining to the nurses that she was being excluded. I didn't want my mother there either, but she took it with a lot more grace. I only wanted my then husband and necessary medical professionals.

[julie paradox]

I thought that it wasn't so much a ban as a condition: "if you do such-and-such you'll be ritually unclean for a length of time". Am I incorrect in this? Or do Orthodox Jews have essential ritual responsibilities that can't be put off around the time of childbirth?

[gardenvarietycitizen]

Not gonna lie, I've long been a fan of marina over there :D

[thoughtful]

I'm so glad I was raised in a kind of Judaism that didn't teach this shit. That's just disgusting.

We've said it here many times -- regardless of which religion has been taken to this silly extreme, the fundamentalism, crazy rule-making and general "women are weak/icky/temptresses" crap is so obnoxious.

[RR88]

It isn't extreme. It's right there in the Old Testament. I'm getting a little tired of people referring to ancient religious practices as "extreme". Sure, they're terrible. But that makes the system itself terrible. More liberal denominations are just pretending the nasty parts of the religion don't exist, in my opinion.

(When I've figured out a nicer way to say all this, I'll start a thread about it.)

[SisiL78]

This is the NY Post after all... Not a legit newspaper.

It is definitely OK for a man to help deliver his wife's baby if its an emergency. Some people (pre-Holocaust and other than super ultra orthodox) would only forgo sex during menstruation. Now its more right wing and extremist as many things have gotten post-Holocaust.

Anyways, I'm reasonably sure that Niddah rules would not make it better to have a random tow truck driver deliver one's baby rather than the father.

At best this was a guy that was totally freaked out and lost his head. I bet he didn't even think to pull out his cellphone and call 911 he was so out of it.