Of Beer and Babies

[dilannsmom]

So, I don't usually read Ken-dull as her "no college for my girls" stance really sickens me. But, I decided to check up on her today, and, well, not only does she have yet another no college post (which, is now maybe college if they live at home a la Jasmine Bachman), she has also posted pictures from her beach trip. The two pictures showcase a baby boy (whom I assume is her son) playing with a semi-full beer bottle.

Now, I have nothing against some good natured underage drinking, and I'm not so prude as to think the beer drinking baby picture isn't cute...but the woman is trying to adopt for God's sake. I can't imagine that an adoption agency would be happy to have a client posting photos on a public blog that showcase (very young) children playing with beer bottles (second photo is full on bottle in mouth shot).

Am I crazy to think this isn't the kind of stuff you put on the internets? Is she baiting us?

thefatherknowsbest.com

(And, to be honest, I'm a bit surprised by the fact that they are sin swillers...)

[deelaem]

So, I don't usually read Ken-dull as her "no college for my girls" stance really sickens me. But, I decided to check up on her today, and, well, not only does she have yet another no college post (which, is now maybe college if they live at home a la Jasmine Bachman), she has also posted pictures from her beach trip. The two pictures showcase a baby boy (whom I assume is her son) playing with a semi-full beer bottle.

Now, I have nothing against some good natured underage drinking, and I'm not so prude as to think the beer drinking baby picture isn't cute...but the woman is trying to adopt for God's sake. I can't imagine that an adoption agency would be happy to have a client posting photos on a public blog that showcase (very young) children playing with beer bottles (second photo is full on bottle in mouth shot).

Am I crazy to think this isn't the kind of stuff you put on the internets? Is she baiting us?

thefatherknowsbest.com

(And, to be honest, I'm a bit surprised by the fact that they are sin swillers...)

Please tell me you are kidding about this.

[Trynn]

Please tell me you are kidding about this.

I don't think she means THAT YOUNG underage drinking...

[Witsec7]

Now, I have nothing against some good natured underage drinking

So what is good natured underaged drinking? How do you define it? At what age do you start this in your home?

[TXDuck]

So what is good natured underaged drinking? How do you define it? At what age do you start this in your home?

I started having champagne at special events at 12, wine with dinner around 15-16. Drinking laws in the US are arbitrary and let's face, stupid. I'm not saying just start passing out 6 packs to high schoolers. But we do need to stop hyperventilating every time someone mentions "underage drinking".

[Witsec7]

I started having champagne at special events at 12, wine with dinner around 15-16. Drinking laws in the US are arbitrary and let's face, stupid. I'm not saying just start passing out 6 packs to high schoolers. But we do need to stop hyperventilating every time someone mentions "underage drinking".

Yea I really want to know how the OP defined it.

My family was very European when it came to drinking with meals. They weren't like prohibitionists. Consequently we got to have responsible consumption modeled for us. But I do blame my father for getting me 'hooked' on dry martini's at the age of 16 :lol: Kids I knew in HS who were forbidden alcohol at home were the big binge drinkers, and often drove from NJ to Staten Island to use bogus DLs in order to purchase booze.

[Hane]

I'm with txduck. In our family, kids were given a little Asti spumante along with the adults before major holiday dinners. As my family weren't big drinkers, it got us familiar, in a safe setting, with the way alcohol would affect us.

[CanadianHippie]

I started having champagne at special events at 12, wine with dinner around 15-16. Drinking laws in the US are arbitrary and let's face, stupid. I'm not saying just start passing out 6 packs to high schoolers. But we do need to stop hyperventilating every time someone mentions "underage drinking".

Gonna agree with you on that one. But then I to had champagne or wine at special events when I was 12, hell when I was 16 I had my first Irish coffee made for me by my own father. No reason for me to wait for weekend parties and get wasted. Not a huge fan of babies with beer though.

[treemom]

So what is good natured underaged drinking? How do you define it? At what age do you start this in your home?

I have allowed my son to drink since he was about 3 or 4 years old. But it is legal in tennessee.

[deelaem]

I started having champagne at special events at 12, wine with dinner around 15-16. Drinking laws in the US are arbitrary and let's face, stupid. I'm not saying just start passing out 6 packs to high schoolers. But we do need to stop hyperventilating every time someone mentions "underage drinking".

I assure you I'm not "hyperventilating" but the OP is talking about a baby. Even a tiny amount of alcohol can cause poisoning in an infant or toddler. And there are drinking age laws because teenagers do not have the developmental maturity to make responsible decisions about drinking, and because until age 18, they're parents are still legally responsible for them.

[Witsec7]

I have allowed my son to drink since he was about 3 or 4 years old. But it is legal in tennessee.

[CanadianHippie]

I assure you I'm not "hyperventilating" but the OP is talking about a baby. Even a tiny amount of alcohol can cause poisoning in an infant or toddler. And there are drinking age laws because teenagers do not have the developmental maturity to make responsible decisions about drinking, and because until age 18, they're parents are still legally responsible for them.

I am going to have to disagree with the idea that teens are not capable of making responsible decisions about drinking. Perhaps in a culture where teen age drinking is vilified and must be done in secret, and is thus done excessively at any given gathering it seems that way. Experience (and much of Europe) tells me that teens who are introduced to responsible drinking are capable of drinking responsibly.

[treemom]

Are we laughing about it being Tennessee? It really is. You can give your own child alcohol in your own home if they are underage here in this state. And I am ok with that. When he was wee it was never more than a sip and we offered a shot glass of wine, but he never liked it enough for more than a sip. He usually doesn't even want it now if I offer.

Also, I have a tacky picture of my baby with a beer bottle too. I am ok with it. (but I drank while pregnant too!)

I think the US has really extreme views of alcohol consumption and I think those views have led us to have extreme alcohol consumption.

[kb2]

I assure you I'm not "hyperventilating" but the OP is talking about a baby. Even a tiny amount of alcohol can cause poisoning in an infant or toddler. And there are drinking age laws because teenagers do not have the developmental maturity to make responsible decisions about drinking, and because until age 18, they're parents are still legally responsible for them.

I did make responsible decisions about drinking when I was a teenager, both while I was under 18 and between 18-21. Other people made irresponsible decisions about drinking while teenagers/<21. But the laws didn't exactly prevent decisions from having to be made.

[Witsec7]

Are we laughing about it being Tennessee? It really is. You can give your own child alcohol in your own home if they are underage here in this state. And I am ok with that. When he was wee it was never more than a sip and we offered a shot glass of wine, but he never liked it enough for more than a sip. He usually doesn't even want it now if I offer.

Also, I have a tacky picture of my baby with a beer bottle too. I am ok with it. (but I drank while pregnant too!)

I think the US has really extreme views of alcohol consumption and I think those views have led us to have extreme alcohol consumption.

Yea it was the TN part.

[Eoywin]

One of my sister's favorite pictures of herself is when she was a baby - she was holding a can of Miller Lite.

My parents let us drink alcohol at home when we were teenagers with the idea that it was safer for us to drink with our parents than to sneak around.

I'm not a big drinker but my sister is an alcoholic (it runs in our family) - but I don't think my parents made the wrong decision. I'll probably do something similar when my daughter is a teen. Though, alas, there will be no baby with a beer pictures of her because neither my husband nor I like beer :lol:

[fundyfunland]

Now, I have nothing against some good natured underage drinking, and I'm not so prude as to think the beer drinking baby picture isn't cute...but the woman is trying to adopt for God's sake. I can't imagine that an adoption agency would be happy to have a client posting photos on a public blog that showcase (very young) children playing with beer bottles (second photo is full on bottle in mouth shot).

(And, to be honest, I'm a bit surprised by the fact that they are sin swillers...)

LOL! I agree, I don't think this picture will help the family out in their adoption quest. I'm not very familiar with Kendal's family, but I'm assuming she's fundie (otherwise, why would we be talking about her), and I just assumed it was against fundie beliefs to drink teh ebil alcohol.

I also have no problems with some underage drinking. My dad would give me a sip of his beer when I was about 4yrs. I was also allowed to drink champagne on New Years when I was about 7. The US drinking age baffles me - an 18 yr old is old enough & responsible enough to buy a gun and/or enlist in the army, but not mature enough to drink? Am so confused :doh:

[abba12]

I live in Australia where the drinking age is 18. I can't believe Americas drinking age is 21... honestly. I'm 20, I have been married for almost 3 years, and have one child and one on the way, whether you think that's right or wrong I am legally able to do it. And yet in America I still wouldn't be allowed to drink? How can I be deemed responsible enough to make all my own medical and legal decisions, as I have been since 18, and all my childrens medical and legal decisions without any supervision or special laws for being underage, because I'm not, I am completely and solely (with my husband) responsible for another human beings life and wellbeing, but I'm not responsible enough to drink alcohol for 3 more years after I can do those things? Give me a break, my daughters health is a far bigger responsibility than drinking responsibly ever will be, the idea that alcohol takes more maturity than marriage and children is absurd.

Anyways, here in Australia the drinking age is 18. My husband was helping his dad make homebrew wine at 16, in fact I think he won 3rd place at the local show for his 'mango wine' at that age. I remember my siblings and I, after doing yard work with dad on a saturday, 'sharing' some of dads beer (only two siblings actually liked it, they got maybe 3 decent sips, certainly not a large amount, they would have been 5 or 6 when this started). We would have been 10 or so when we were allowed special event bubbly and occasional sips of stronger drinks. We never had wine at the dinner table, but my sister was allowed to have one bottle of cider or one mixed drink of whatever my mum had on a friday night at about 15, almost never more than one. I remember my first real drink (because I hated what my parents drank most the time) was also the first time I got drunk, I was at a close friends house for new years, about 15 (remember 18 is legal here), and his mother was there in supervision (she did ask if the 3 underage drinkers had parental permission, one had permission but had to be home at 10 and not actually drunk, she was 14, one had full permission given to the mother over the phone, he was 16, and I told her I had permission though I did not because of a bad relationship with my parents, but as you can see the idea of it was not unusual, the other two really did have permission). The thought was that the parents would far prefer that their children learn about social drinking in a small group of half a dozen close friends, with the 'cool mum' supervising, than at some huge party with no supervision, or down at 'schoolies' with no safety measures. We felt comfortable with the 'cool mum' watching us, and it was a great way to learn in a very safe enviroment. If you ignore the fact someones head was shaved, I think it went pretty well lol. My husband had wine at the dinner table from about 13, and developed a taste for scotch at about 15. From 16 or so (again, 18 is legal here, not 21) he was allowed to drink what he wanted in the house as long as he was responsible and helped pay to keep the supply up. Neither of us have ever had excessive alcohol in a large group situation where there are strangers etc, becaue there was no need and it wasn't safe to us, we didn't feel comfortable allowing ourselves to be vulnerable in that way among strangers.

Fast forward, I am almost 21, my husband is almost 24, so maybe it's still early days, but I think we drink responsibly. We sometimes have a mixed drink to unwind in the evening, probably two nights a week on average when I'm not pregnant, we enjoy homebrewing stuff, and maybe once a month my husband has a few beers with a good friend of ours. When I'm NOT pregnant I do get drunk at times, maybe once a month tops (when I am pregnant my personal limit is a very occasional drink, only one standard drink, I'll push it to two wines a few hours apart if it's something like a wedding), but it's a concious, usually social, decision that I make after ensuring there will be sober care for my daughter etc. My husband no longer gets drunk due to health issues, but still enjoys a couple of drinks with friends, usually keeps sober enough to care for our daughter (if he dosen't then I will abstain for the evening, we discuss what level we will drink to before even starting to ensure there's no miscommunication). None of my husbands family drink irresponsibly, they will get drunk on certain, social occasions, and otherwise just enjoy some alcohol. My mum is now an alcoholic, but I think I'm pretty responsible, and my sister, while she does get drunk at clubs perhaps more than I would approve of, certainly dosen't have an unhealthy relationship with alcohol, and I wouldn't consider her all that irresponsible, she always goes with friends and they always have a designated driver. It certainly isn't a priority in her life, all other bills and nececities come before any alcohol is purchased, it's purely a luxury.

I know a couple of irresponsible drinkers, and they all started drinking at big parties, and hiding their drinking from their parents. The idea of wine with dinner is so weird to them, because they can't understand enjoyment of alcohol for the sake of enjoyment, they don't understand why you would drink without any intention of getting drunk, or drink when not around friends and hanging out. They don't appreciate alcohol for it's own sake, they just see it as a nececary component to a good time, and it's really sad. I wish they'd been introduced to reasonable, responsible, alcohol consumption before these ideas were put in their heads by their peers.

[No Fun My Babe]

Plenty of adults can't make responsible decisions about alcohol either. I see nothing wrong with teenagers drinking safely and responsibly. When I was younger, my grandfather had season tickets to Washington Redskins games. On those occasions, I was allowed a beer or a weak bloody mary, and I definitely looked forward to it! I've never been one to drink a lot. Both of my parents are raging alcoholics (my dad recovering), so I've always had an aversion to drinking in excess, but a drink here and there, no biggie.

I think that if kids are taught how to drink responsibly instead of it being some big taboo, there would be a lot less going hog wild with it when they do start drinking.

We have some weird issues with alcohol here in the US. You can take a bullet for your country at 18, but you want to have a beer? Oh noes!

Also, I obviously don't think babies should actually drink alcohol. I know some people still use the time-honored method of rubbing a bit of whiskey on a teething baby. That I really don't see anything wrong with.

[gustava]

I have allowed my son to drink since he was about 3 or 4 years old. But it is legal in tennessee.

Confused here. What is kidlet allowed to drink at age 3 in Tennessee?

[dilannsmom]

OP here--didn't really mean to start a drinking age debate...was more concerned about throwing a drinking baby picture up for the world to see when the family is trying to adopt.

As for my views on underage drinking--I grew up in an almost "normal" fundy lite family. But, the big taboo in our home was drinking. I have never seen either of my parents drink--EVER! The only liquor in the house when I was growing up was bourbon at Christmas time for my mom's famous bourbon balls--which she always gave away and she and my father never ate. So, fast forward--I pissed the family off by going to a Catholic university (go Flyers!) and went hog frickin wild in terms of drinking. I drank A LOT. And made a lot of bad decisions. But I finally realized that alcohol can be consumed in moderation and that it is actually enjoyable to have a glass or two of wine or beer with friends.

My crack at underage drinking was aimed at the average high school student. I teach high school and I'm not so naive to think that kids don't drink. The scary thing about that is the statistics on high school binge drinkers--the numbers are astronomical. So, do I think that underage drinking is a good thing? No. But do I know that it happens? Sure. Do I think that, in my own experience, some high school drinking might have curbed my college craziness? Yes.

[treemom]

Confused here. What is kidlet allowed to drink at age 3 in Tennessee?

Any alcohol if it is given to them Ina religious ceremony or in their parents residence by their parents. Something like 40 states have illegal consumption exemptions.

[Mommy22alyns]

That has to be bait. Right?

[fluttershies]

In the UK, it's legal for children to drink in their own home with parental supervision from age 5. At 16 you can have wine or beer with a restaurant meal, and liqueur chocolates. At 18 you can drink everything else. While I wouldn't give a 5yo booze, when I was growing up I was frequently allowed a sip or two of my parents' drinks, just to try, and never liked it ;) When I was a teenager I could have a small glass of wine for a special occasion, and Baileys or amaretto in my coffee or hot chocolate at Christmas. In my 20s now and not a big drinker. If a teenager can get married, join the army and vote (all decisions requiring responsibility), then they should be able to drink alcohol.

[Arete]

Got to go with the consensus here so far that the US alcohol laws probably do more to ENCOURAGE than discourage irresponsible drinking. My family is from Europe and we could have wine with holiday dinners starting around age 13. Being 16 and having a glass of wine or a beer for dinner was not an issue. However, we stayed very closeted about this around friends and neighbors, as our parents were afraid they would be seen as irresponsible at best or criminal at worst. If we had non Greek underage friends over, we were banned from the alcohol as well.

As for babies and alcohol, yeah I would not spike their bottle, but when we teethed as toddlers we got a swab of brandy or raki on the gums. Done for centuries, and we don't turn out any more or less screwed up than the Orajel users.

ETA the word NOT. I would NOT spike a kid's bottle. :shock: