Prayer before meetings?

[freejoytoo]

I don't mind the Queen that much but I'm not into any kind of royal fever.

My family are originally from Scotland and Northern Ireland but I've never been there and see myself as being very English. On a side-thought, it does seem to me that saying you feel English comes with more negative connotations that if you said you felt very Scottish or very Welsh. I'm not one of those morons who whinges about not being able to fly a flag or that I'm 'persecuted' for my nationality (what a load of rubbish) but it feels to me that because I'm middle class and southern a lot of people assume I'm a snob - that has been my experience anyway.

I do live in Bristol which is a very multicultural city, though there is too much Jubilee fever!

Going back to the original topic, in theory I don't really agree with religious stuff in public places. In primary school we sang hymns and prayed and for a while I had a childish faith in God. Objectively I think it was wrong but I did love singing the hymns and even now I love saying the Lord's Prayer, even though I don't believe in it. I wouldn't feel comfortable saying it before a meeting though. There's a time and a place, and that's generally church.

[Sola]

While the unionists of Northern Ireland are largely associated with and descended from Scottish Protestants, those Scottish Protestants moved to Ireland in the time of Oliver Cromwell (i.e. a fucking long time ago). They're entirely naturalized to the area now. There is no more question of them leaving than the Europeans who settled in America in the seventeenth century, stealing land from the Native Americans, could leave. And while the British military presence in Northern Ireland is something that, theoretically, could be withdrawn, the question of a union with Britain or joining with the Republic of Ireland does not depend on that military presence as people seem to assume (strangely).

In short, the current politics and demography of Northern Ireland are certainly a result of historical abuses perpetrated by the British but there is no 'leaving' now. It simply does not make sense as a concept.

I don't mean the people as such. I mean the army and the fact that NI is ruled by the UK. I think that NI should be part of Ireland and governed by Ireland. Though I do appreciate that if that happened there would be a lot of people mightily pissed off and in all likelyhood the shit would hit the fan. I don't know how anyone would go about setting that in motion, and I don't pretend to have any answers.

It's a bit like the situation in Afghanistan. If we leave the average Afghan is fucked. If we stay the average Afghan is fucked.

[freejoytoo]

I know a really fierce Unionist. Don't agree with her politics but she'd be very angry if Northern Ireland stopped being ruled by the UK and sees herself as being British through and through.

I don't know the answer either but Northern Ireland seems the most peaceful it has been for a number of years at the moment. One of my tutors at university grew up during the Troubles and said it was just horrific.

[Guest Anonymous]

I don't mean the people as such. I mean the army and the fact that NI is ruled by the UK. I think that NI should be part of Ireland and governed by Ireland. Though I do appreciate that if that happened there would be a lot of people mightily pissed off and in all likelyhood the shit would hit the fan. I don't know how anyone would go about setting that in motion, and I don't pretend to have any answers.

It's a bit like the situation in Afghanistan. If we leave the average Afghan is fucked. If we stay the average Afghan is fucked.

But NI is not under British military rule.

[Sola]

I didn't say it was. I said that NI ruled by the UK and the army needs to get out of there.

[Guest Anonymous]

I didn't say it was. I said that NI ruled by the UK and the army needs to get out of there.

Sorry, I must have misunderstood you. I thought that you thought that Northern Ireland's place in the union was dependent on British military presence.

I know I must be coming off as one heck of a unionist but, honestly, I'm not. If Northern Ireland were to leave the UK it would probably just have the same kind of referendum that Scotland is going to have.

The only problem is that there is quite a bit of popular support for the union as a long term political strategy in NI (my only source for this number is Wikipedia, so take this with a grain of salt, but 54% of the population appears to support the union).