Jacinda @ Growing Home (Molar Pregnancy)

[Beeks]

I don't think anybody is upset with people mourning pregnancies that they lose. They do, however, have issues with people who equate the loss of a potential baby with the death of an actual child.

(My mom has lost a pregnancy, while it was very hard for her, it would have been totally different if she had lost a child.)

Elle is a nincompoop. I doubt she even read the original post.

[Elle]

I don't think anybody is upset with people mourning pregnancies that they lose. They do, however, have issues with people who equate the loss of a potential baby with the death of an actual child.

Some people see an unborn baby as still their baby, and it's not your place to anyone's place to tell them they're wrong for this. If she gives birth and loses that child down the road, she may feel that loss is worse. If she had lost a born baby and then had this loss, by comparison this one may not be as hard for her. But so far her only loss has been before birth, so she has nothing else to compare it to. She is mourning the loss of what she sees as a the loss of a child. Whether you want to tack "potential" onto that is for you to decide, but to her, her loss is real.

The lack of compassion around here is appalling sometimes. She was looking forward to a baby, and rather than have some sympathy, you're picking apart how she's mourning and declaring that she is doing it wrong. That's cruel.

[Beeks]

Some people see an unborn baby as still their baby, and it's not your place to anyone's place to tell them they're wrong for this. If she gives birth and loses that child down the road, she may feel that loss is worse. If she had lost a born baby and then had this loss, by comparison this one may not be as hard for her. But so far her only loss has been before birth, so she has nothing else to compare it to. She is mourning the loss of what she sees as a the loss of a child. Whether you want to tack "potential" onto that is for you to decide, but to her, her loss is real.

The lack of compassion around here is appalling sometimes. She was looking forward to a baby, and rather than have some sympathy, you're picking apart how she's mourning and declaring that she is doing it wrong. That's cruel.

Elle, the reason I was (mostly) confused was that she first said it wasn't a real baby and then suddenly started talking about the death of a child. I don't follow her on FB so I didn't know her diagnosis had changed until somebody mentioned it here.

That said, I do still think it's wrong to equate an early miscarriage with the death of a child. It's not the same. It's just not. She has living children - she has to know that losing one of them would be much, much different from losing a pregnancy. There is no reason to equate the two. Nobody said a miscarriage isn't devastating. But it's not the same as losing a living, breathing child. And that's ok - it can be it's own kind of grief.

[aimee]

As for those floating embryos and angel babies...

If I can ask this question in a better place please redirect me...

Can anyone tell me what the fundies expect of their failed pregnancies once they get to heaven? What do they imagine? Have incomplete babies matured into full-term babies? Are the angle babies in sacs of amniotic fluid or are they dry and perfectly formed once they get to heaven? Do you carry angel babies in your pocket like a tamagotchi pet? What about those who believe every period is a pregnancy? How does that "translate" in heaven? I tried to google the matter but didn't really get anywhere. I'm kind of being a smart ass (obviously) but I really honestly would like to know what fundies expect once they are "reunited" with those angel babies. Or, could it be that I am just being too literal and having problems understanding it all because I don't really "get" heaven in the first place?

[Beeks]

As for those floating embryos and angel babies...

If I can ask this question in a better place please redirect me...

Can anyone tell me what the fundies expect of their failed pregnancies once they get to heaven? What do they imagine? Have incomplete babies matured into full-term babies? Are the angle babies in sacs of amniotic fluid or are they dry and perfectly formed once they get to heaven? Do you carry angel babies in your pocket like a tamagotchi pet? What about those who believe every period is a pregnancy? How does that "translate" in heaven? I tried to google the matter but didn't really get anywhere. I'm kind of being a smart ass (obviously) but I really honestly would like to know what fundies expect once they are "reunited" with those angel babies. Or, could it be that I am just being too literal and having problems understanding it all because I don't really "get" heaven in the first place?

I would assume most (other than mormon fundies who think we all have perfect bodies after death) think we are all just our souls in the afterlife....so there wouldn't be any weird stages of fetus to baby to kid to adult to old person.....just energy? I honestly have no idea.

[fundifugee]

I hear you on that. Once when I was pregnant with fetuspuglover#5 I shampooed, conditioned and lotioned my hair. I have no idea why the lotion was in the shower in the first place but I did it. I also was well known for shaving one leg twice and not the other leg. I also seemed to like putting my purse in the fridge and the mail in the freezer if I even got it that far and had dropped it in the driveway like some kind of trail of crumbs.

Now I haven't been pregnant for over 10 years and I still don't know why I keep doing these things. Maybe the 5 of the little perisites really did eat my last brain cell. :shock:

Wow, glad it is not only me. I only had one child and she is 3 now and nearly half my brain is still missing. I am beginning to despair of it ever growing back.

[MrsKay]

I'm a habitual aborter - in other words, I lose almost every pregnancy that I conceive - so I get pregnancy grief. It sucks, and it makes no sense - my losses range from 5 weeks to 16 weeks, and the loss that fucked me up the most was a 5 week loss. I agree that this is a grief that needs to be respected, but I also agree that my losses have nothing on the loss of a baby at term, or an infant or child. I do, however, find it nauseating when fundies et al obviously whore out their losses for attention. I find it hard to feel much compassion, when I might have if they'd been sane about it.

I picture my lost babies as whole and perfect, wherever they are; I always picture them as infants, but maybe that's just Mommy Brain that can't imagine them grown up. However, I think I may need professional help, as despite my losses etc., the fetus humour here is cracking me right the fuck up.

[dairyfreelife]

Elle, the reason I was (mostly) confused was that she first said it wasn't a real baby and then suddenly started talking about the death of a child. I don't follow her on FB so I didn't know her diagnosis had changed until somebody mentioned it here.

That said, I do still think it's wrong to equate an early miscarriage with the death of a child. It's not the same. It's just not. She has living children - she has to know that losing one of them would be much, much different from losing a pregnancy. There is no reason to equate the two. Nobody said a miscarriage isn't devastating. But it's not the same as losing a living, breathing child. And that's ok - it can be it's own kind of grief.

I tend to think, never had a miscarriage, but some people who sadly have, that it's the potential child people mourn. They mourn the potential that will never happen now. When you want it and it's taken away from you before you ever really had it sort of thing. It was coming, but something happened and now you'll never have it. Jmo based off what I've seen in others. I don't think it's the same as a child who the parents actually got to see and/or hold and even raise and care for at all.

[ilovetchotchkes]

I'm a habitual aborter - in other words, I lose almost every pregnancy that I conceive - so I get pregnancy grief. It sucks, and it makes no sense - my losses range from 5 weeks to 16 weeks, and the loss that fucked me up the most was a 5 week loss. I agree that this is a grief that needs to be respected, but I also agree that my losses have nothing on the loss of a baby at term, or an infant or child. I do, however, find it nauseating when fundies et al obviously whore out their losses for attention. I find it hard to feel much compassion, when I might have if they'd been sane about it.

I picture my lost babies as whole and perfect, wherever they are; I always picture them as infants, but maybe that's just Mommy Brain that can't imagine them grown up. However, I think I may need professional help, as despite my losses etc., the fetus humour here is cracking me right the fuck up.

That's where I have the issue- they make it into some sort of political statement too, when it really ends up then, marginalizing the women who want babies and children for the sake of having kids to love em! Not for some religious ideal that makes a woman's fertility all that she is and if she can't have "blessings" then she's "less of a woman". :evil:

MrsKay, i'm sorry for your losses. :( 2 of my friends have similar issues and I just wanna pull them in my arms and hug em til the end of time. I can't fathom going through it once, much less 3-4-5- times. :(

[Elle]

I tend to think, never had a miscarriage, but some people who sadly have, that it's the potential child people mourn. They mourn the potential that will never happen now. When you want it and it's taken away from you before you ever really had it sort of thing. It was coming, but something happened and now you'll never have it. Jmo based off what I've seen in others. I don't think it's the same as a child who the parents actually got to see and/or hold and even raise and care for at all.

[kb2]

I think people need to stop trying to make a hierarchy of mourning. Someone can feel the loss of a very early pregnancy very deeply while someone else may not care much. Does this mean that the first person is somehow wrong for crying for weeks because someone else wouldn't really care? Those who have been lucky enough to not have have a VERY wanted pregnancy end in miscarriage are so fucking lucky to not be able to understand, but still need to shut the fuck up about how those who are mourning, especially when it's only been a couple months or not even, are somehow wrong. I have lost several babies early on, and one not very early on, and I have cut from my life friends I'd had for a long time who said I needed to just get over it, people who've never lost babies they wanted. It HURT to have those losses, and it hurt deeply, and it hurt even more to be told that the loss doesn't matter, to just get over it. It's cruel and heartless to say that it's all right to mourn the loss of a full-term baby who is still-born but not right to mourn as deeply when that loss happens earlier. What right does anyone have to decide when it's all right to feel heart-broken? At what point does it go from being something that doesn't matter to all right to mourn and even plan a memorial? Where is that arbitrary line? Whether a pregnancy ends in pre-natal death or cessation in the third trimester or the first doesn't matter. The parents won't ever see that child breathe or move or blink,won't ever get to look into the eyes of their child while saying "I love you." A loss at six weeks or six months of nine months all result in the same thing - no child to rock to sleep at night. To have the potential and to lose it, to lose that potential, is a profound loss. You have no place deciding a line is crossed because someone is mourning deeply an early loss just because you think it doesn't matter as much as later on. When I had my own first loss, miscarriages were something no one spoke about, and now it's something that can be mentioned, and it has helped with the more recent losses to talk about them. People saying that losses before some arbitrary state shouldn't matter as much do nothing but send the message that women who miscarry should shut up about it because it doesn't matter, and that feeling of isolation makes it so much worse. Just because you can't see it doesn't mean it doesn't exist or doesn't matter. Fundies don't like to acknowledge the existence of mental health disorders because they can't see it, and they're wrong for it, and you are wrong for devaluing someone else's loss because it doesn't matter to you, isn't something you can't see.

If you want others to stay out of the uteruses and abortions of other women, then stay out of the uteruses and mourning of women who've had losses. If you don't want women who have abortions to be judged for the decisions they make, then quit judging those who've lost the desired contents of theirs that they didn't choose.

I agree that getting into a pissing contest over different losses being better or worse is unproductive, which is why I compared a miscarriage to the loss of a child as being "differently-painful" instead of "more" or "less" painful. I also agree that taking the attitude that people should "just get over" a loss is bad, which is why I suggested that "there should be more awareness of the pain of a miscarriage in our society." I blamed society's response to miscarriages for Jacinda's need to equate her loss with a different one--you should be able to say, "I had a miscarriage," and have people say back, "I'm sorry," without having to say, "I had a miscarriage and it was just like losing a five-year-old," to get sympathy.

I do not see where I said pregnancy loss didn't matter at all and everyone who has one should get over it immediately and never talk about it, but if I did that would be a pretty horrific thing to say. All I can find is my referring to miscarriage as "sad," and "how real the loss feels," and there being a "sense of loss." But maybe I am completely unaware that some people experience mourning after a miscarriage.

My second paragraph did actually get pretty judgey, since it blames her terminology of mourning on not wanting to confront her political beliefs, and is full of speculation and make-uppery.