Headcoverings in different religions

[Rosa]

Just because it's pretty universal (pretty much all married Christian women covered their head all the time up through at least, what, the 17th century? It was common enough in Europe that 19th century images of European immigrants feature lots and lots of head covering) doesn't mean it's not patriarchal bullshit, like the requirement that women cover their breasts in places/times when men don't.

[Glass Cowcatcher]

But the point is - an adult Amish woman leaving Amish society to become "part of American culture" has left - or been expelled from - everything she has been raised to know and be. All while being totally unprepared and unable to make her way and survive in "American culture" (8th grade Amish education, no marketable job skills, no income, etc, etc) and while being shunned (unable to speak with or have contact with any friends, relatives, or children). Think about it.

Ok I see what you are saying.

[Glass Cowcatcher]

Just because it's pretty universal (pretty much all married Christian women covered their head all the time up through at least, what, the 17th century? It was common enough in Europe that 19th century images of European immigrants feature lots and lots of head covering) doesn't mean it's not patriarchal bullshit, like the requirement that women cover their breasts in places/times when men don't.

Speaking as someone with big bazoonkas, it's not all about "covering up," it's that it's darned painful to go around without a bra!

I agree with your general point, though. There's a double standard with female vs. male modesty. Look at how nudity is handled in the movies.

[debrand]

Speaking as someone with big bazoonkas, it's not all about "covering up," it's that it's darned painful to go around without a bra!

I agree with your general point, though. There's a double standard with female vs. male modesty. Look at how nudity is handled in the movies.

OT I am pretty flat chested. It has never made sense to me that a man with large breasts can go without a top and I can't. LOL

[Glass Cowcatcher]

OT I am pretty flat chested. It has never made sense to me that a man with large breasts can go without a top and I can't. LOL

Even if there was no taboo I just wouldn't want my sandbags to flop every step I took.

[2xx1xy1JD]

I see it as a political issue more than a religious one.

Today, while there is social pressure in certain circles to wear headcovering, I'm not aware of any non-Muslim countries that mandate headcoverings as a matter of law.

Muslim headcoverings do have a traditional religious/cultural origin BUT they were not legally mandated until relatively recently. Prior to 1979, for example, many Iranian women chose not to cover. It was also common to see women who didn't cover in Afghanistan prior to the Taliban. Has anyone read "Reading Lolita in Tehran"? There's some interesting discussion of how the revolution shifted (the author and her husband originally supported the overthrow of the Shah), how she was forced to wear the veil, how the religious police would arrest and torture women, and how religious Muslim women also resented the law because it meant that they were no longer wearing the veil as a sign of their religious beliefs.

Traditionally, there was also considerable variation within Islamic headcoverings. The spread of full hijab and particularly niqab is often as a result of increasing Saudi influence.

The bans on headcoverings are also political. They reflect a political culture of official secularism, as opposed to freedom of religion. Turkey and France banned religion from the public sphere, and Quebec is influenced by the French model. The American and Canadian (outside of Quebec) model is more focused on individual freedoms and liberties, so that individuals can express their religious beliefs openly and in public, but the state cannot discriminate on the basis of religion, favor one religion over another or impose religion.

From my individual rights perspective, I would support the right of a Muslim woman to wear a hijab in North American for the same reason that I would oppose the forced wearing of the hijab in Iran or Saudi Arabia: I believe that women should have control over their bodies, and their beliefs, free from coercion or discrimination.

I wouldn't say that it is ALWAYS assumed that Muslim women are forced to cover. In the case of those who convert, I think it's quite clear that it must be a choice. At the same time, in some places (like where I live), there can be a clash of cultures in immigrant families and there can be conflict between husband and wife, or parents and children, over the issue. While I have a number of clients who voluntarily wear hijab, I have also had a few cases of women telling me that their husbands would beat them for not doing so. It can also be an issue in schools, if teachers notice that students take it off when they get there but put it back on when they go home. They may choose to avoid sharing that information with the parents.

[MamaJunebug]

debrand, thanks for posting! I once heard someone say that the angels were aroused by looking down upon earth and seeing women's alluring hair. But -- I thought angels were wtihout gender?

Written when it was written, Paul's essay on headcovering and uncovering probably had everything to do with the new order and role of women in a society that had seen its first egalitarian champion (Jesus) and very very very little to nothing to do with literal heavenly angels looking at the tops of humans' heads.

It just goes to show how any religion can really get bogged down (and how some have gotten bogged down) in details when the religion is predicated on the idea that men are more equal than women one gender is more equal than another!!!!

[Glass Cowcatcher]

So here's a question--in other posts some of the Jewish ladies have mentioned covering their hair with wigs... how does that even count, because I thought the point of a head covering was to keep the hair concealed?

[Sunnichick31]

debrand, thanks for posting! I once heard someone say that the angels were aroused by looking down upon earth and seeing women's alluring hair. But -- I thought angels were wtihout gender?

I hear that too in Muslim circles! I know a few people who always cover their hair even inside the home and when I asked why they do it, they said that angels don't enter houses where women are uncovered. A-that's false. I have NEVER heard of such a thing. There is nothing in the Quran or the hadith which says that and b-Angels are perfect. Unlike humans, they were not given free will to obey or disobey God, they always obey him, so wouldn't they just not look at a woman with uncovered hair? WTh??? I don't understand where people get these ideas from. WTH???

[2xx1xy1JD]

There are different schools of thought within Orthodox Judaism.

View #1 (primarily Chabad Lubavtich, but also some other Ashkenazi groups)

Believe that the requirement is to cover, not to look ugly. Wigs generally cover ALL the hair, without exposing anything, while hair can sometimes show under a hat, scarf or snood. Plus, a woman is less likely to slip off a wig in public, while she may be tempted to do so with a scarf. If a wig happens to look good, that's fine. It's like wearing nice looking clothes, which may even look nicer than a naked body - it's still coverage, and the person wearing it knows that they are covering. Since wigs are widely worn in the Orthodox Jewish community, Orthodox men would realize that the women are still covering. Good-looking wigs may also encourage women who cover to keep covering, encourage women who don't to start, and can be a good option for working women who need a professional look.

Video from a modern Orthodox woman on headcoverings, explaining her view on wigs:

View #2 (stricter ultra-Orthodox Ashkenazi, including followers of Rabbi Falk, the ultra-Orthodox community in Israel and some non-Chabad Hasiddic groups)

Wigs can be a good option for full coverage BUT they should not be provocative and should not look exactly like uncovered hair. This group will insist that wigs shouldn't be too long and will oppose innovations that make wigs look more realistic (skin-tops, lace fronts, falls). Some will cover the wig with a hat or scarf as well.

View #3 (mostly Sephardic, but a few Ashkenazi as well)

Wigs should not be used because they make hair look uncovered.

[Sola]

Actually the Quran does instruct men and women to cover themselves

Quran, chapter 24 verses 30-31

24:30 Say to the believing men that they should lower their gaze and guard their modesty: that will make for greater purity for them: And Allah is well acquainted with all that they do.

24:31 And say to the believing women that they should lower their gaze and guard their modesty; that they should not display their beauty and ornaments except what (must ordinarily) appear thereof; that they should draw their veils over their bosoms and not display their beauty except to their husbands, their fathers, their husband's fathers, their sons, their husbands' sons, their brothers or their brothers' sons, or their sisters' sons, or their women, or the slaves whom their right hands possess, or male servants free of physical needs, or small children who have no sense of the shame of sex; and that they should not strike their feet in order to draw attention to their hidden ornaments. And O ye Believers! turn ye all together towards Allah, that ye may attain Bliss.

At that time, women were wearing scarves on their heads, but the were wearing them in a way which didn't cover the hair fully nor did they cover the neck or bosom (all of which are supposed to be covered).As you can see, in verse 31 we are insructed in how to cover ourselves.

Chapter 33 verse 59 33:59 O Prophet! Tell thy wives and daughters, and the believing women, that they should cast their outer garments over their persons (when abroad): that is most convenient, that they should be known (as such) and not molested. And Allah is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful.

Some people interpret this verse to be another verse about the headscarf, but in reality the word translated as overgarment refers to something worn over ones normal clothes (meaning an abaya, jilbab, pardesu, chador or something similar.) in order to make sure the body is fully covered. Although you can find modest western clothes, some still show the shape of the body such as the butt or breasts.

Evidences in the hadith for niqab-

Narrated Aisha: The woman is to bring down her JilbÄb from over her head and then place it upon her face. (jilbab is the word for overgarment. In modern context it refers to a coat-like garment worn over top of ones regular clothes, but in historical context it can be used to refer to the entire outfit.)

Narrated Aisha: The riders used to pass by us when we were with the Messenger of Allaah in ihrÄm When they came near, each of us would lower her JilbÄb from her head over her face, and when they passed by we would uncover our faces.

I have more hadiths proving niqab is a requirement but I won't post all of them.

That doesn't specifically say to cover the hair though. I know there are hadith which mention it, like the ones above you quoted, but hadith isn't the same as the Qur'an and there isn't a universal agreement over which hadith are strong and which are weak. The way I read those verses from the Qur'an are that women are to dress modestly when out in public, not show their boobies, not show their backsides, not to dress in a way that would alluring.

Personally I think that people should be able to wear whatever they want, if that means wearing a burqa or niqaab, fine. If that means a strappy top and shorts, fine. I don't believe that anyone should force anyone to wear something, or not wear something, but if you follow a religion and YOU feel that part of that religion requires a headcovering, go for it.

I wear scarves, some would call them headcoverings, but there is absolutely no religious significance with me. I just like them plus they are great for bad hair days :D Why bother spending ages tarting my hair up, like today for instance - got out of bed looking like I had been dragged through a hedge backwards - when putting on a scarf hides the entire mess!

I do wonder though Sunni, why do you see so many Saudi women dressed in black when the men are dressed in white? I can't imagine how hot it must be. Surely pale colours would achieve the same thing and would be cooler. Jilbabs and abayas come in all colours, so why do Saudi women in particular dress in black?

[Pudicitia]

There's a very popular myth floating around Western cultures that Muslim women cover their heads because they are forced to by their religion. The hijab is actually a sort of statement from centuries ago, that stuck around as a uniquely Muslim fashion, looooooong after the statement that those who wore the hijab were making was forgotten. I wouldn't call it a fashion trend, that's rather inaccurate- Persian women wore it as a symbol of pride, and then non-Persian women picked it up.

Though the Quranic side has been covered by other posters, you are right that there were quite distinctive female headcoverings in the regions where Islam would later be practiced. These ladies come from the Temple of Bel in Palmyra, Syria, probably dating from the reign of the Roman emperor Trajan (1st/2nd century AD):

But you could make similar observations for Christianity - headcovering and the rhetoric surrounding it were common in pagan ancient Rome. I'm sure there are similar factors for most religions that practice headcovering of some kind in some context.

[2xx1xy1JD]

Genesis 38:15 is intriguing, since it suggests that Judah thought that Tamar was a prostitute because she had veiled her face. It makes you wonder about the context for veiling/face-covering in ancient societies.

[Kaylee]

I do think there's a double standard, especially in regards to how many Americans and Europeans view Muslim women who cover as opposed to Christian or Jewish women. I think that a lot of it is ethnic prejudice, but it's also because many times a Muslim woman in a headcovering and traditionally modest clothing (abaya, burka, etc) is more recognizable than other religious women.

For instance, a lot of Christians wear kerchiefs or bandannas, or wide headbands, and can come across looking as either old-fashioned or hippie without being identifiable as part of one religious sect or another. The same goes for some Jewish coverings - at least for women who wear wigs or hats, instead of totally covering their hair with a tichel or snood.

I also wonder how much it has to do with the surrounding community. In places with lots of Amish & Mennonites, or lots of Orthodox Jews, or lots of Muslims, I imagine the headcovering is more acceptable to most people just because they are more used to seeing it. Around here, there's not any group that covers, so most people assume it's just a quirk. That said, most of the ones who have had anything negative to say are Christians, either because they assume I am somehow copying from Islam or that I am under some sort of legalistic bondage that is "forcing" me to cover.

[missbrooklyn]

No Jewish woman I have ever known would wear that schmata in the picture. I'm just saying.

[fluttershies]

Me personally, I have always interpreted the 1 Corinthians passage as Paul telling the women of the Corinthian church to use headcovering as a symbol of being married and therefore being respectable - since headcovering would have been common in the surrounding culture, it would not have made them stand out. A modern-day equivalent would be a wedding ring.

I am tempted to cover my head because my hair is very thick and usually frizzy - I have legit Hermione Granger hair lol - but for me modesty is about not standing out and wearing a headcovering would make me stand out (less so in a more multicultural area, but at the moment I live in White Person Land). It's my words and actions that should stand out as distinctly Christian, not the way I dress.

That said, I have zero issue with women choosing to cover, as long as it is their choice. One of my aunts is an Anglican nun and wears a full habit :)

[chiccy]

There are different schools of thought within Orthodox Judaism.

View #1 (primarily Chabad Lubavtich, but also some other Ashkenazi groups)

Believe that the requirement is to cover, not to look ugly. Wigs generally cover ALL the hair, without exposing anything, while hair can sometimes show under a hat, scarf or snood. Plus, a woman is less likely to slip off a wig in public, while she may be tempted to do so with a scarf. If a wig happens to look good, that's fine. It's like wearing nice looking clothes, which may even look nicer than a naked body - it's still coverage, and the person wearing it knows that they are covering. Since wigs are widely worn in the Orthodox Jewish community, Orthodox men would realize that the women are still covering. Good-looking wigs may also encourage women who cover to keep covering, encourage women who don't to start, and can be a good option for working women who need a professional look.

Video from a modern Orthodox woman on headcoverings, explaining her view on wigs:

View #2 (stricter ultra-Orthodox Ashkenazi, including followers of Rabbi Falk, the ultra-Orthodox community in Israel and some non-Chabad Hasiddic groups)

Wigs can be a good option for full coverage BUT they should not be provocative and should not look exactly like uncovered hair. This group will insist that wigs shouldn't be too long and will oppose innovations that make wigs look more realistic (skin-tops, lace fronts, falls). Some will cover the wig with a hat or scarf as well.

View #3 (mostly Sephardic, but a few Ashkenazi as well)

Wigs should not be used because they make hair look uncovered.

From what I understand, wigs are not extremely common in Hasidic groups other than Chabad, or in any ultra-Orthodox groups (Hasidic or Litvish). I mean, you can get away with wearing one, especially if there's a hat on top--but most women don't, and those who do wear wigs are considered more modernische and often judged for it. That's my impression. Also, I'd say wigs are generally a little bit more common in the U.S. than in Israel, although I could be wrong about that.