Reformed Whore Syndrome

[rachelsmith1989]

Warning. Rant coming up

Because many of these women are close to my age, they probably grew up with the same influences that I did. Nice girls did not have sex or only had sex when they were in love. Men had different sexual needs than women so were supposed to be obsessed with sex. If a woman had the same needs as a man, she was a nymphomaic, meaning she has something mentally wrong with her, or she was a whore. That sounds a lot like fundamentalist thinking.

Fundamentalist women don't get angry at the society that produced their guilt. For some reason, they absorb that guilt and believe that they are worthless. Religious conversion is an excuse to change their life. Except they become part of the same problem that created their guilt and pass that unhealthy view of women's sexuality on to their children.

The world is changing and I am overjoyed about it. Hopefully, my daughters will be judged by their intelligence, kindness, creativity etc and not how many sexual partners that they have had or not had.I don't know why fundamentalist women would not want that for their children. Why burdern your kids with the unhealthy hangups you have?

Rant over.

It has always stuck me as weird that Christians put so much emphasis on purity. The bible does mention waiting until marriage but it has far more verses about helping the poor, not lying, not gossiping, answering rude answers with kindness, etc. I've yet to see anyone give their child a 'feed the poor' ring.

edited lieing into lying

I would have to say that all this "sex-before-marriage" talk has to be thrown out of the Church, certainly in these days. The Bible was written at a time when people would marry off their children as soon as they hit puberty, at around 13 or 14 years old (or even younger) and have their daughters marry someone who can provide for them (read : a lot older men). Obviously, they couldn't imagine a woman marrying at the legal age we have set in different states today (19 without parental consent, younger if they do permit it happening) since people would get suspicious about what the bride would have done before her marriage.

My mom simply told me not to have sex until I'm married, but that's easy for her to say when she got married at the age I am now (23), went to college before and was busy afterwards (and gave birth me when she was 33). I love her so much for living more independently than most people (at least as a couple with my dad), but so many people nowadays wait a long time between when they first have sex and when they get married. I think most conservatives don't understand (*hint* James Dobson *hint*) is that many people coming out of college (or even a few years of school without graduating) have a lot of debt that they need to pay off, they have to find a job in order to help pay off those debts, and the depression we're going through doesn't help at all. I suppose others simply get hitched anyway because the couple wants to face these issues as a couple and I applaude them for their courage.

[2xx1xy1JD]

I think it's pretty common in fundie circles to attract "lost sheep". There is often more of a willingness to be friendly and approach and less initial judgment than in some of the more establishment institutions, and the "lost sheep" is often more than willing to see their past as some sort of secular hell, reject their past life including family and friends, and look to the new group as the source of All Things Good.

[PBrooke]

Maybe it's because I just recently watched this vlog, but this makes me think of MamaAnt's daughter Brittany, or Bb. She's decided to take up vlogging (which I personally find much more interesting than her blog, because it's not as sticky sweet with the Kool-Aid and since she's sort of stream-of-consciousness rambling as she's washing dishes, it seems to be more honest). In the last half of the vid, she talks about how she wants to write a book for SAHD's "from the other side of the tracks," since she left her family for awhile before courting and she "knows what's out there." She and her mother have both alluded to this before. This time, she also mentions that she didn't talk to her family for some time. Best as I can figure, she must have left and come back in less than one year; I'm dying to know how much of the "big bad world" she actually saw and what was so terrible that she came back embracing fundiedom with open arms. But her main message now is to tell girls to "wait it out." So whether or not she actually did anything sexually, she certainly has a Reformed Bad Girl Syndrome going on.

Hmm, maybe Bb's right - maybe she is fairly unique in the sense of having been raised at least fundie-lite, leaving that world, and actually coming back. http://youtu.be/GkxEpaaTco4

[gardenvarietycitizen]

But what I've never understood is if their sins led them to God, wouldn't they want the same for their children? If a Duggar girl says to herself "Hm, I really want a husband like my dad. What should I do to prepare myself?" Well, shouldn't she be kissing a boy behind an icecream shop (rather than reading about purity), because THOSE series of events led to the holy marriage that they have now! Does this make sense?

Yeah, but usually that's not how the conversion/BT/born-again/found Jesus sequence works, though.

The newly religious sees the light, often via contact from people looking to convert them or doing outreach (so, by definition a group of people who are religious, yet willing to associate with corrupted outsiders, if only to bring them into the fold). The newly religious make use of these services, are grateful, etc.

But when it comes to their kids, if anything they want to overcompensate for their own upbringing - they think, "well, I was lucky, and I was skilled enough to see my opportunity and I was lucky that God saved me" (or whatever, depending on the group) but "it would be BETTER if I had been raised holy my entire life, I see kids who have always been religious and I wish my life would have been like that." Which then turns into "I am going to give my kids that life." It's a way of vicariously living through the kids too, surely. I'm gonna give them what I never had.

So they raise their kids to be on a higher level, so to speak. They might happily support outreach groups and "seeker-friendly churches" or church youth groups aimed at teens or schools for at-risk youth or whatever it is, but heaven forbid they don't want their own kids mixing there. Already fallen kids need that but their own kids are at a higher level.

...or at least that's the vibe I get reading around various places where people who find religion late in life talk about sheltering their kids.

Plus there's something to the saying that there is no one more fervent than a recent convert.

[Rosa]

I think one of the differences between the women who go fundie after a "wild" period and women who just enjoy themselves and then move on, is the enjoyment - a girl having a baby at 16 is proof she was having sex, but not that she was enjoying it, or didn't feel coerced and ashamed even at the time. I know the work I've done with teen moms, a lot of them (this is a subset of poor, often-homeless, and under-educated girls, not teen moms in general) experience a "partying" life as exactly the kind of destructive hell the fundy moms say it is - survival sex, sexual predators, drinking that obscures consent, etc. And since the bloggers we're talking about were "rescued" by a religious subculture that always talks about sin and never talks about consent, they may not have the tools to distinguish between sex-for-fun and other kinds of sex.

That would make it a lot easier to think you were saving your little girls from pain, instead of creepily controlling their lives and sexuality.

[koolmom]

This could also describe many politicians and their families such as the Santorums. How does his wife go from living with the OB/GYN that delivered her to marrying Rick? Maybe the doctor wasn't the best man for her but she had to have internalized some condemnation to live the life she does now.

I'd heard Karen wanted a family, but old Dr. Tom didn't (already had kids), so that's why the relationship went downhill. Wonder if Catholic-boy Rick had been keeping tabs on her while she was with Dr. Tom, hoping for a way in, found it, then slammed her with a ton of massive guilt? Like NO ONE ELSE will have you unless you "get saved", etc, etc. Kind of a far cry from world traveler bon vivant to SAHM in one fell swoop, huh?

[LastChance]

It is cute but I don't see any elastic around the leg openings. Wouldn't personal parts peek out?

The bottoms are fully lined and the elastic sits between the outer fabric and lining but it is there :)

As to the op, my step mom was sorta like that. She was relatively promiscuous when youngerplus was married twice before my dad. When she and my dad got together she was just sort of mainstream christian but by the time I was a teenager she was fundy lite and would have easily gone full fundy I think if my dad had been into it but he thankfully isn't . She does have a total attitude of do as I say not as I do though. Like she's trying to make up for being promiscuous. Personally I think id rather she make up for being a horrid bitch but I guess that accpetable its just being a skank that's not ok

[2xx1xy1JD]

Ditto to gardenvariety and Rosa.

One of the issues that has come up for me in my slowly-becoming-more-religious journey is that we don't fit the stereotype of the person with the wild and unhappy secular life who suddenly embraces religion and rejects their past.

I'm not joining the bitch sessions about how hard it is to deal with secular family members. My family is great, and there's lots of mutual tolerance. I don't think that my upbringing was bad. I find that many so-called "religious" disputes are really just about dysfunctional families or are unresolved issues from adolescence. Since I already have a family, I'm not looking for another one and I'm certainly not about to treat a religious leader like a parent. If my religious leader happens to follow certain family customs, that's nice but since it's not MY family, I don't have to follow them.

English is my first language. I think I should be able to have a conversation in it, without lapsing into language that my family and friends would not understand or forgetting the rules of English grammar.

I spent my college years studying hard, working, going to political lectures and demonstrations and getting more involved in Jewish organizations. Hubby was the same, with slightly fewer political demonstrations and much more studying. I've had trouble convincing some people that there was absolutely nothing in the way of wild drinking and partying. Toronto does not produce big partying schools.

[LaydNimue]

Warning. Rant coming up

Because many of these women are close to my age, they probably grew up with the same influences that I did. Nice girls did not have sex or only had sex when they were in love. Men had different sexual needs than women so were supposed to be obsessed with sex. If a woman had the same needs as a man, she was a nymphomaic, meaning she has something mentally wrong with her, or she was a whore. That sounds a lot like fundamentalist thinking.

So true! In the late 70's every "good girl" I knew was not allowed to call boys (never mind ask one on a date!) or hang out in the neighborhood like the boys (after age 11 or so). When I asked why? I was told "the only reason a girl would want to be outside is to have boys look at her" and that calling boys was "being forward". Most families, not fundy, just regular folks, believed this way. It was interesting to transition into the 80's social culture as a young woman, yeah the 80's were a blast! :D

[shesinsane]

Back in college a friend quit smoking cigarettes, and for weeks it was all she could talk about: how her sense of smell improved, her clothes don't stink, food tastes better, etc. In a way, I think it was how she kept her resolve. When she got the urge to smoke, telling herself all the good things about not smoking would help her keep from smoking again.

These women are like that with their sex lives - they removed themselves from their sinful situations but sometimes still miss it, so they reassure themselves they made the right choices and look down upon those who live the life they used to. Of course, they'd never admit they have fond memories of their pre-fundie time, but they might be thinking it.

[valsa]

Although I get what you're saying, I have a huge problem calling it "Reformed Whore Syndrome". First of all, there's little evidence that any of these women were actual prostitutes. And the word "whore" has so many negative and sexist connotations. While they might have been what society calls promiscuous, let's remember that men are never held to that same standard.

You're missing the point. "Reformed Whore Syndrome" is not a reference to us thinking they were whores, but to them thinking they were whores.

[sugaree]

Many of the Reformed Bad Girls/Reformed Bad Boys that I know were ever so barely Bad. Like maybe chugged half a Zima at a party once, but go on and on about their depraved youth. Maybe it's not so much about the sins they committed, but the sins they wish they had?

[Mama Mia]

Most of the people that I know that are "born-again" were very, very wild as teens and young adults. Sexually promiscuous - yes - but that was pretty pervasive in the late 70's in my area. They also did large quantities of drugs and engaged in criminal behavior. I think for some of them becoming religious may have quite literally saved their lives. Because they had it so rough, with so many problems, they are very scared of their children having the same issues and they want to protect them.

I think they just become very, very extreme and narrow in their thinking. They seem to be afraid that any step off of a rigid path will lead straight to a life of crime/addiction/prostitution/abuse.

[AnnieC 305]

You're missing the point. "Reformed Whore Syndrome" is not a reference to us thinking they were whores, but to them thinking they were whores.

As the original poster, this.

[LilMissMetaphor]

...but there's a male version too.

Steve Maxwell? Or was that just speculation, I can't remember.

[pomology]

Steve Maxwell? Or was that just speculation, I can't remember.

I think it was just speculation. But I think FJers came to the conclusion that his father was almost certainly a cheater.