Debunking the Silent Scream

[Witsec7]

I don't either. While that case (and cases like it) are very, very sad, I do not believe that they should be charged as double murder. That's a slippery slope toward a fetus being declared a person and Roe being overruled. Until it's viable, I don't think a fetus should have rights.

Some states have sentencing statutes where a the murderer of a pregnant victim can face an aggravated sentence. I don't have a major issue with that, as it's based on the added heinousness of picking a particular victim who will have less ability to defend themselves (I'd imagine it would be hard to fight off an attacker while heavily pregnant...), such as a child, elderly person, or disabled person. Aggravate the sentence, sure, but don't count a fetus as a separate person.

I'm going to ditto these sentiments. Personhood for a fetus opens up a lot of doors that naturally would financially benefit the RTL folks.

[ksuheather]

You know WIC does extend benefits to pregnant women so in that one instance it is a financial benefit for a fetus. I'm a noob but not trying to stir the pot. :)

[emmiedahl]

The WIC benefits are for the pregnant woman. The baby does not receive benefits until they are born.

[ellerigby]

The WIC benefits are for the pregnant woman. The baby does not receive benefits until they are born.

QFT. I was writing the exact same thing, but you beat me to it. ;)

[GeoBQn]

Ugh, of course when I clicked on this thread the ad at the top of the page said, "Abortion is a tragedy. Do you agree?" I know the ads are there for a reason, and the site has no control over what actually goes up there, but ARGH. Luckily refreshing the page gave an ad for a Star Wars computer game.

[gustava]

there are so many different controversy’s about abortion but really it boils down to this, when does a human receive rights?

A fetus is not a human being, so your question is loaded and misleading.

[desertvixen]

I agree that Connor's law was an anti-choice end run, and wonder if that law would have come into existence if Laci and Connor hadn't been white and upper-middle-class. I think probably not.

WIC covers the pregnant woman not the fetus. As it should. There was a move a few years ago (I want to say in TX) to try to make prenatal care covered by covering the fetus, instead of covering the woman. Again anti-choice runaround.

[bananacat]

I completely agree with you all about Connor's law. Killing a pregnant woman should not be counted as double homicide, and I don't think I'm cruel for saying so. There should be an extra charge, but not murder. It should be similar to whatever the charge is for a forced abortion, because that's essentially what it is. And that's two crimes against the woman, nothing against the fetus/embryo.

[FlorenceHamilton]

If life begins at conception, can couples visit the States just to conceive and then have their child be a natural citizen? Since Barak Obama was conceived while his parents were both at the University of Hawaii, does it blow up the whole "birther" argument?

Can couples get monthy "bereavement" leave from their jobs?

Should people be able to claim a tax exemption from the moment of conception?

Why do the folks who believe this shit also want to carry weapons on their person just in case they need to kill sombeody and why do they also believe in liberal use of the death penalty.?

[The Archivist]

The fundamental unit of life is a single cell.

Therefore life begins at an unfertilized egg, making it murder to ovulate without conceiving.

I'm taking it reductio ad absurdum, but really, if your survival absolutely depends on another person's body, no, you don't have a right to life. It ain't pretty, but that's how it works.

[Austin]

I completely agree with you all about Connor's law. Killing a pregnant woman should not be counted as double homicide, and I don't think I'm cruel for saying so. There should be an extra charge, but not murder. It should be similar to whatever the charge is for a forced abortion, because that's essentially what it is. And that's two crimes against the woman, nothing against the fetus/embryo.

It's almost like killing the woman isn't enough. Her life was apparently worth more because he killed the baybee!

Yes, it's a tragedy, but it's still a great tragedy if *just* the woman is murdered.

[FJismyheadship]

I dont know... I think perhaps eight or nine months pregnant should be murder... When the baby is most likely to survive outside the womb.. Before that though it needs to be charged but not murder. Then again im not a professional of any sort so i may be im the minority.

[sage]

Conception isn't pregnancy. If it were all those fertilized ova in liquid nitrogen would be tax deductions, and a tissue culture tube would be considered a womb. Revisionist science doesn't work when people think it through.

Did anybody else notice that the "sources" cited for this pile of poo are more than 20 years out of date across the board? Bothersome, to say the least.

[Witsec7]

Did anybody else notice that the "sources" cited for this pile of poo are more than 20 years out of date across the board? Bothersome, to say the least.

She cited crap.

[sage]

She cited crap.

The linked article, indeed crap. The "sources" were the Santorum topping on top of the fecal pie for me.

[treemom]

I dont know... I think perhaps eight or nine months pregnant should be murder... When the baby is most likely to survive outside the womb.. Before that though it needs to be charged but not murder. Then again im not a professional of any sort so i may be im the minority.

Hi I am Treemom, have you ever read my story before? People don't get abortions at 8months for the hell of it.

[treemom]

Since my termination happened on u/s and I watched, I can confirm there was no silent scream.

[SpeakNow]

Hi I am Treemom, have you ever read my story before? People don't get abortions at 8months for the hell of it.

I hope I'm not being too prying (if I am, I apologize in advance), but what is your story?

[treemom]

I hope I'm not being too prying (if I am, I apologize in advance), but what is your story?

Let me find the link, I have posted it a lot here, every time we get into this abortion thing and people start demonstrating how little is accurate about the stories people are told about late 2nd and 3rd trimester abortion

[treemom]

viewtopic.php?p=76721#p76721

[Dinorah]

I'm sorry about what happened, Treemom.

Anyway, I watched some footage of the Silent Scream and if anything, it seems to me it might make people more pro-choice. He goes on and on about the "child" but all you see is a shapeless mass that's barely recognizeable as human, and trying to claim a fetus at that stage of development understands it's "under threat" or "trying to escape" is ridiculous.

[somewhereinbetween]

Some scientists disagree, if life begains at conseption then that life is protected.

http://www.epm.org/resources/2010/Mar/8 ... onception/

Life does not "begin", it merely continues. Personhood begins at birth.

[slickcat79]

Hi I am Treemom, have you ever read my story before? People don't get abortions at 8months for the hell of it.

I think FMJ was referring to the case of killing a pregnant woman; that if the fetus was at a late stage of development, it should be considered an additional murder charge but not before then. I don't agree, but that's at least somewhat more nuanced than thinking people should be charged with murder for having a late-term abortion.

[Kitty]

I went to the Silent Scream site, and wow is there a lot of misinformation.

Learning about fetal development actually made me more pro-choice, because they don't even look human until well into the pregnancy (further along than 11 weeks). Also, they might need to find a better inches-to-centimeters calculator: at 11 weeks a fetus would only be about 4 cm, which is not 2.5-3 inches. It's actually less than 2 inches. The rest of the list is wrong.

[treemom]

I think FMJ was referring to the case of killing a pregnant woman; that if the fetus was at a late stage of development, it should be considered an additional murder charge but not before then. I don't agree, but that's at least somewhat more nuanced than thinking people should be charged with murder for having a late-term abortion.

I think you are right. I am sorry I misunderstood FMJ.