Training Fleshy Flesh

[mschelseae]

Fearmongering, Godwin, and "you're a bad Christian if you don't do this" crap in To Train Up a Child (again, only a small sample):

ugh. despicable.

has anyone ever researched mind control? this sounds a lot like the 'recipe' I've heard about in what I've read about it.

[thoughtful]

has anyone ever researched mind control? this sounds a lot like the 'recipe' I've heard about in what I've read about it.

Oh, absolutely.

http://www.rickross.com/reference/brain ... ing19.html

Thought reform and Stockholm Syndrome - isn't that the best way to raise children? :roll:

:(

[SpeakNow]

Have any of the Pearl's children written about what their life was like growing up?

[Witsec7]

Have any of the Pearl's children written about what their life was like growing up?

Bekka (sp) has written much in the defense of her father.

[ellerigby]

:evil: :evil: :evil:

Thoughtful, those excerpts were some of the most upsetting things I've ever read. And I've spent most of my adult life working with victims of child abuse and DV. I can't believe that is lauded as an appropriate way of raising children. The Pearls make my blood boil.

[SpeakNow]

Bekka (sp) has written much in the defense of her father.

Do you have a link? I'm googling it, and I can't seem to find anything.

[Witsec7]

http://therighttobewrong.blogspot.com/2 ... olish.html

[SpeakNow]

http://therighttobewrong.blogspot.com/2010/02/rebekah-anast-defends-her-foolish.html

Thank you!

[figuring it out]

Bekkah obviously did not grow up to value herself much as she let her husband treat her like crap. She lived in a home with no power, water or heat. She had her kids running laps to keep warm and slept on a pile of blankets. I can't even remember why they were so financially strapped, but in the US there are social services available to alleviate that kind of poverty but she seemed to think it was her duty to submit cheerfully to whatever life her husband served up.

[Witsec7]

Bekkah obviously did not grow up to value herself much as she let her husband treat her like crap. She lived in a home with no power, water or heat. She had her kids running laps to keep warm and slept on a pile of blankets. I can't even remember why they were so financially strapped, but in the US there are social services available to alleviate that kind of poverty but she seemed to think it was her duty to submit cheerfully to whatever life her husband served up.

They live on an indian reservation, and they're strapped because gabe doesn't work so he can study the bible full time. She was supposed to drop a baby this summer. And Bekkah and gabe are not legally married, that would be submitting to the state.

[figuring it out]

Thanks for little bit of an update. I'd mostly forgotten Bekah, though not the Pearl child abusing crap. Someone I knew was considering getting the book, and I just asked her if she would be comfotable switching her infant with a stick. She decided that the Pearls weren't for her. It was my good deed and I can thank freejinger for it. Otherwise I never would have heard of the kooks.

[CustardTart]

This exposes the real lack of true parental love the Pearls have for children, their own or anyone else's

OMG I feel the same way! I don't think they know how to love!

[SpeakNow]

The fact that people follow the Pearls really saddens me. My grandparents were big believers in spanking when my father and his siblings were little. My father always told me that the 2 things he remembered most were (1) having contests with his brothers to see who could break the most rules without getting spanked and (2) wondering why it was okay for his parents to hit him, but it wasn't okay for him to hit back. As a result of his childhood, he swore he would never spank he own children. My sister and I were never spanked, and I think we turned out pretty well.

[katniss]

I've heard about Pearls.

Deaths of those two girls that were 'trained' according to their method were in the news here as well.. but reading this has made me physically sick.

As someone who (very soon!) is getting a degree in teaching, this just makes me stare in disbelief.

And makes me sad for all those children that are defenseless :(

[debrand]

The Pearls are what drove me to join the older forum. For a long time, it seemed to me that I was the only person outraged over this couple. Because I homeschool, I kept coming across online people who praise the Pearls. Even people who had never heard of the To Train Up A Child were advocating things like, First Time Cheerful Obedience that sounded similar to what the Pearls taught.

When I read the book online, I was horrified. The Pearls discuss an incident with their eldest daughter. According to them, she was mobile at a very young age, four months. They whipped her so many times when she crawled up the stairs that all they had to do was put a switch across the bottom step and she wouldn't cross the line. She was four months old!

When you read the Pearls there are some things that you need to be aware. The Pearls twist words. They use the word training interchangable with hitting a child but training doesn't always mean hitting. They claim to not spank often because they consider spanking different than their version of hitting. So, they can claim that they rarely spank even if they hit their child every single day.

Their magazine No Greater Joy(nogreaterjoy.org) has had less new articles on spanking since the public criticism over their methods. Older articles are still up, though I don't know for how long.

If you go to the forum 7xSunday, you will find a bunch of craziness. The site is run by Rebekah Pearl and her husband, Gabe. She goes by the name, Forever Girl on the site. The forum is dead but the threads still remain.

[debrand]

I wanted to include one activity from TTUAC that I thought was meant to create Stockholm Syndrome in the children. The Pearl parents would stand with a switch(a limber stick) while barking commands at their children. "Touch the doorknob." "Don't touch the knob." "Sit" "Stand" etc. If the child did not immediately comply with the order, they were hit. If the child did not comply with a smile, they were hit.

Before this site, one of the few people who I found willing to condemn the Pearls was TulilpGirl. If you do a search on her name, you can find her articles.

I have often thought that the Pearls methods could be used by a fictional evil character to create Stockholm Syndrome in their victims.

[chiccy]

I wanted to include one activity from TTUAC that I thought was meant to create Stockholm Syndrome in the children. The Pearl parents would stand with a switch(a limber stick) while barking commands at their children. "Touch the doorknob." "Don't touch the knob." "Sit" "Stand" etc. If the child did not immediately comply with the order, they were hit. If the child did not comply with a smile, they were hit.

Good lord. That's so fucked up I don't even know what to say.

[debrand]

Good lord. That's so fucked up I don't even know what to say.

They claimed their children enjoyed these sessions.

[chiccy]

They claimed their children enjoyed these sessions.

Yup, Stockholm Syndrome alright.

[formergothardite]

Don't the Duggars play an obedience game sort of like that?

[thoughtful]

Don't the Duggars play an obedience game sort of like that?

Yes -- that is one of the tenuous connections that shows some evidence that they follow the Pearls.

But I don't know if they play (or claim to play) a gentler version of the game, without the switching. Like the fact that blanket training can be done without the smacking, there could be versions of this game that are more like "Simon Says."

I'm not crazy about the fact that the activities are supposed to teach Obedience Without Thought, and Children Not Being Any Trouble. Such noble goals. :roll:

But I concede that there are non-beating ways to do both activities.

In fact, I concede that a gentle, voluntary, Simon-Says-like version of the cue-and-response game could have its uses -- learning to listen carefully, making a team family activity out of a chore, etc.

I wish there was clearer evidence that the Duggars use the nastier versions. I strongly suspect the Duggar kids have been whipped a lot, but I don't think there is any proof.

Holding out hope for that tell-all book (or even the clueless "I love the way I was raised -- let me tell you about the whippings I deserved" crap).

[thoughtful]

:evil: :evil: :evil:

Thoughtful, those excerpts were some of the most upsetting things I've ever read. And I've spent most of my adult life working with victims of child abuse and DV. I can't believe that is lauded as an appropriate way of raising children. The Pearls make my blood boil.

Ellerigby, and everyone else who is just learning how bad this stuff is -- keep boiling, and join the fight!

The Amazon review page is one option --giving thumbs up or down to reviews and comments, writing a review if you've read the book.

http://www.amazon.com/Train-Up-Child-Mi ... Descending

[thoughtful]

The Pearls are what drove me to join the older forum. For a long time, it seemed to me that I was the only person outraged over this couple. Because I homeschool, I kept coming across online people who praise the Pearls. Even people who had never heard of the To Train Up A Child were advocating things like, First Time Cheerful Obedience that sounded similar to what the Pearls taught.

I had never heard of them -- can't remember if I heard about them before coming to the FJ Yuku board, or shortly thereafter.

Debrand, I'm so sorry you went through that frustration -- it must have felt like being in Bizarro World.

[Arete]

A baby starting to stiffen and cry when being placed in a crib isn't a "battle for control". The kid wants/needs its mother. May these people be in prison speedily and in our time.

[emmiedahl]

For people who have never heard of these maniacs, the Pearls don't just advocated child abuse, but domestic abuse as well. Created To Be His Helpmeet has lots of interesting theology indicating that the husband is always right and that his wife should stay no matter what he dishes out. Pearl states that men were made in God's image and woman in man's image, that the wife needs the husband to mediate between her and God. However, women are responsible for men's sins because they are the main temptation.

From page 79:

A Command Man who has gone bad is likely to be abusive. It is important to remember that much of how a Command Man reacts depends on his wife’s reverence towards him. When a Command Man (lost or saved) is treated with honor and reverence, a good help meet will find that her man will be wonderfully protective and supportive. In most marriages, the strife is not because the man is cruel or evil; it is because he expects respect, and is not getting it. When a wife plays her part as a help meet, the Command Man will respond differently

On page 132-4, the Pearls relate the story of a friend who was abused to the point that her husband came after her with a butcher knife while she was pregnant with their third child. The woman realizes it is because she is not "reverencing" him enough, begins doing so, and he changes.

Here is how women should deal with abuse according to the Pearls:

Lady, you were created to give glory to God. When God puts you in subjection to a man whom he knows is going to cause you to suffer, it is with the understanding that you are obeying God by enduring the wrongful suffering. And when you suffer wrongfully, as unto the Lord, you bring great glory to God in heaven.

Debi Pearl calls women names throughout the book, including "dumb cluck" “cheap office wenchâ€, “cheap office hussyâ€, “lazy, complaining wife,†“cranky, demanding leechâ€, “skinny swine†and “hillbilly ugly, which is worse than everyday uglyâ€.

Of course men must earn nothing, but women must earn every affectionate glance:

It doesn’t seem fair that the wife is expected to honor and obey her husband even though he has not earned the right; yet she must also earn the right to be loved.

The book, like everything the Pearls write, is a hotbed of crazy and bad theology as well.