Vineyard Churches?

[keeperrox]

So I read a blog of a pastor at a Vineyard church. His blog really isn't about religion at all; he sometimes posts good recipes and he has really cute kids, which is why I read it. When I first started reading, he posted quite a bit, but the posts have been pretty sporatic lately.

 

Anyway, I was curious about his church, so I googled around, and some people seem to think Vineyard churches are cults. There aren't any around here, so I was wondering if anyone here has any experience with them? I was just so suprised, because, while they are not fundy in any way, shape, or form, from what I've gleaned from his posts, they certainly didn't seem like a cult, either!

[NurseNell]

I only know of one Vineyard church, it's in WI. The pastor grew up MO Synod Lutheran and was ordained as a MO Synod Lutheran pastor. Ha and his high school girlfriend, who was Catholic, had a baby in high school. They placed the baby for adoption with Catholic Charities. During his seminary education he and the girlfriend married. The first baby they had in their marriage had Down's Syndrome. This seemed to have a major effect on them, thinking this was their penance for having had a baby out of wedlock. After a few years as a MO Synod pastor he and his wife became more estranged from that group. At some point he left that ministry and started a Vineyard Church. I haven't attended it though I plan to, once just to see for myself. My daughter attended once and didn't like it at all, she felt the preaching was very rooted in how sinful we all are. Many of the members in this particular church are former Catholics. My daughter did say the music was very upbeat. The pastor grew up in the town where his church is but very few family members belong. His family continues at the local MO Synod church and his wife's family at the local Catholic parish.

[MonkeyMomma]

I've never heard of Vineyard churches before, so is it this group? vineyardusa.org/site/

[keeperrox]

she felt the preaching was very rooted in how sinful we all are.

Wow, that surprises me. This blogger ends many of his posts with "Love Wins", has lots of tattoos, and from what I've seen on other sites, they are very accepting of homosexuality. He's not really the type that I would expect to harp on pasts sins. Although, like many churches I'm sure the theology changes depending on who is giving the sermon. I was just wondering if there was validity in many of these site's claims of it being a cult.

I've never heard of Vineyard churches before, so is it this group? vineyardusa.org/site/

Yeah, same group.

[rachelsmith1989]

I'm friends with a young woman who goes to a church with a "Vineyard" titile. She's one of the nicest people you can get to know and I love hanging out with her (and this is coming from n semi-feminist, buddhist/atheist/agnostic liberal portlandia loving/watching vegan hipster).

We've had some chances to talk in depth about some of the issues on this blog like "republican" politicians, abortion, and other hot topics. She's much more understanding of the contextual circumstances surrounding such issues. She likes to keep her walk in the Lord to herself and not bang anyone on the head when it comes to these things. I really wish more xtians were more like here.

...oh and she's a vegetarian too! :dance:

[Didi]

I have heard both sides of the coin about vineyard churches. I grew up in Sovereign Grace Ministries churches and vineyard was kind of viewed as shallow, but considering all of the crap SGM is going through right now I am not putting a lot of weight into that one. :) I have heard of legalism in vineyard churches and it would surprise me if they were LGBT friendly, but I really think it depends on the specific church - not the denomination as much.

[emmiedahl]

I found a few articles.

http://articles.baltimoresun.com/1992-1 ... 0-churches

http://www.gotquestions.org/Vineyard-Movement.html

They sound like Bethel in Redding. That is, cult-ish potential.

[keeperrox]

I found a few articles.

http://articles.baltimoresun.com/1992-1 ... 0-churches

http://www.gotquestions.org/Vineyard-Movement.html

They sound like Bethel in Redding. That is, cult-ish potential.

Yeah, that Baltimore Sun article is one I read before. It just blows me away that the person who writes this blog would be a part of a group like that. He just seems so down to earth and honest.

[NurseNell]

Wow, that surprises me. This blogger ends many of his posts with "Love Wins", has lots of tattoos, and from what I've seen on other sites, they are very accepting of homosexuality. He's not really the type that I would expect to harp on pasts sins. Although, like many churches I'm sure the theology changes depending on who is giving the sermon. I was just wondering if there was validity in many of these site's claims of it being a cult.

My guess is there's a lot of room for different beliefs and preaching styles within the Vineyard Church. I know they have a set of core beliefs but there's much left up to the individual pastors. And keep in mind my daughter only went once so that doesn't mean his preaching is always rooted in how sinful we are. I would guess too a lot depends on what faith they were in prior to becoming Vineyard ministers. MO Synod is pretty big on sin. The people I know who go to this church are former Catholics who got disgusted with some things in the local parish. I'm not sure I could see this church as being a cult since there doesn't seem to be a lot of control exerted over members.

[Mattie Chatham]

I grew up in Vineyard Churches (until we later switched to SGM). They aren't cultic, but definitely have that potential on the individual church level. There's not a lot of denominational oversight, so you'll have a lot of variations from church to church. It mostly depends on the pastor.

They started as a group of charismatic surfers who got together to study the Bible. The primary mark of a Vineyard church today is that the sermons are sequential expositions of chapters of the Bible--starting in Genesis, going to Revelation, and starting over. The other mark is that they're pretty charismatic, bordering on Pentecostal.

Trivia note: Mumford and Sons lead singer/songwriter Marcus Mumford is the son of the Vineyard UK church group leader.

[Didi]

Mattie - really?? Are you on sgmsurvivors?

[Mattie Chatham]

Yes, sometimes. What's your handle there, and which church were you at?

[ThisOlGirl]

I grew up in Vineyard Churches (until we later switched to SGM). They aren't cultic, but definitely have that potential on the individual church level. There's not a lot of denominational oversight, so you'll have a lot of variations from church to church. It mostly depends on the pastor.

They started as a group of charismatic surfers who got together to study the Bible. The primary mark of a Vineyard church today is that the sermons are sequential expositions of chapters of the Bible--starting in Genesis, going to Revelation, and starting over. The other mark is that they're pretty charismatic, bordering on Pentecostal.

Trivia note: Mumford and Sons lead singer/songwriter Marcus Mumford is the son of the Vineyard UK church group leader.

Weren't the Vineyard Churches somehow connected to Chuck Smith/Lonnie Frisbee/Calvary Chapel at one time? I know that Calvary Chapel (at least the ones I'm familiar with) does the same thing IRT going through the bible sequentially. Many members of my family go to Calvary Chapels, and I'm becoming less and less of a fan, so if Vineyard is anything like them, no thanks.

[alphaeta08]

We have one down the street, and it always looked a little iffy to me. It took me a while to figure out it was even a church. I'm sure each one is different, but the one here seems kind of... creepy? Like they don't want you to know exactly what goes on in there.

[emmiedahl]

Yeah, that Baltimore Sun article is one I read before. It just blows me away that the person who writes this blog would be a part of a group like that. He just seems so down to earth and honest.

Really nice people can be in really nasty religions. Some people like a certain theology enough to overlook the crayzee. Also, religion can become an identity, and it is hard to give that up.

It's also possible that he goes to a really liberal, loving Vineyard church.

[Mattie Chatham]

Weren't the Vineyard Churches somehow connected to Chuck Smith/Lonnie Frisbee/Calvary Chapel at one time? I know that Calvary Chapel (at least the ones I'm familiar with) does the same thing IRT going through the bible sequentially. Many members of my family go to Calvary Chapels, and I'm becoming less and less of a fan, so if Vineyard is anything like them, no thanks.

I don't think so. The ones I went to had a similar feel to Calvary Chapels, but they weren't affiliated. More on Wikipedia: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Associati ... d_Churches

[Witsec7]

My DDs father knew Girard in the wayback daze of the black paddy gang in Laguna Beach, this was when Owsley Stanley was cooking LSD in the canyon. Girard took a trip and along the way he found god. Its new, hip and lured Bob Dylan among others. I'm thinking that their first 'church' was in Costa Mesa or Garden Grove, but after Girard found his ministry he'd visit the canyon, and preach to the fellows he'd had business dealings with. For a time he competed with the sunset Krishna parade at main beach in Laguna and preach off a park bench.

[deelaem]

My DDs father knew Girard in the wayback daze of the black paddy gang in Laguna Beach, this was when Owsley Stanley was cooking LSD in the canyon. Girard took a trip and along the way he found god. Its new, hip and lured Bob Dylan among others. I'm thinking that their first 'church' was in Costa Mesa or Garden Grove, but after Girard found his ministry he'd visit the canyon, and preach to the fellows he'd had business dealings with. For a time he competed with the sunset Krishna parade at main beach in Laguna and preach off a park bench.

*sigh* You're making me miss California. There, even the godbags are freaky. :lol:

[Didi]

Mattie - BrokenHearted - I've been part of 3 SGM churches from 5 - 21 it was Fairfax, va

I am still in SGM, I am just... not as "koolaided" as I used to be I guess?

[Witsec7]

*sigh* You're making me miss California. There, even the godbags are freaky. :lol:

Girard is the fundy I love to dish dirt about, I only knew him after his conversion. SexyX actually did a lot of work on their first recording studio. I've got a text into him to find out where it was. Most of the real freeks moved up here behind the green curtain long before we left :lol:

[Dixiebelle]

The Vineyard here is very charismatic. My fundy friends called it evil.

[Katiedarling]

I grew up in Vineyard Churches (until we later switched to SGM). They aren't cultic, but definitely have that potential on the individual church level. There's not a lot of denominational oversight, so you'll have a lot of variations from church to church. It mostly depends on the pastor.

They started as a group of charismatic surfers who got together to study the Bible. The primary mark of a Vineyard church today is that the sermons are sequential expositions of chapters of the Bible--starting in Genesis, going to Revelation, and starting over. The other mark is that they're pretty charismatic, bordering Pentecostal.

Well explained. I'd describe them as a branch of the Charismatic movement. They are well known in Charismatic circles for their contemporary worship music. Individual churches are affiliated with the denomination, but you definitely see many differences in styles from one Vineyard church to the next. At the one I've attended in Seattle you see all ages and a wide range of different types of people. The worship was extremely Charismatic. At another Vineyard church I've attended in Utah- the worship was much less Charismatic and it reminded me more of a non-denominational middle of the road evangelical church. In my experience there wasn't a huge orthodoxy in thought and belief among those that attended the Seattle church, which is something you sometimes see in Charismatic churches where the emphasis is experience versus belief. This may have changed over the years.