Autumn and Joe are now "facebook official"

[Milly-Molly-Mandy]

I can't get this to open?

Anyone have a link to the yuku thread on her?

Thanks :)

[fun2beme]

So good to see her enjoying a happy and healthy life!

[salsa]

oh, I'm so happy for her!!! and proud! What a remarkable young woman - and a remarkable family who, though they bought into the fundy ideal, took her seriously and took her side even though it created social strife within their church family.

Still, to illustrate the severity of her leaving him with the help of her parents, they were able to get divorced "biblically" (that's how her mom put it) only because he admitted that he was not a virgin when they got married. Not the abuse; the sex.

Tracy's writings were clear about Autumn's husband not loving her as Christ loves the church, which is to be the model of fundy interpretations of marriage, and Tracy, although torn, seemed to be pretty clear that his abusiveness alone would be legitimate cause for divorce. And when I think about Tracy's marriage, which seems to be loving and vibrant, I can see where she and Verne, her husband, would be very supportive of their daughter- and, I'm sure, beyond heart-broken.

We don't always see that kind of marriage among fundies. We see husbands chastising wives for things like drinking Pepsi. It's good to see that they came around so quickly. To think of so firmly believing in a certain system and then having these terrible consequences visit your own daughter must have been earth-shattering.

[Letgo]

oh, I'm so happy for her!!! and proud! What a remarkable young woman - and a remarkable family who, though they bought into the fundy ideal, took her seriously and took her side even though it created social strife within their church family.

Still, to illustrate the severity of her leaving him with the help of her parents, they were able to get divorced "biblically" (that's how her mom put it) only because he admitted that he was not a virgin when they got married. Not the abuse; the sex.

Tracy's writings were clear about Autumn's husband not loving her as Christ loves the church, which is to be the model of fundy interpretations of marriage, and Tracy, although torn, seemed to be pretty clear that his abusiveness alone would be legitimate cause for divorce. And when I think about Tracy's marriage, which seems to be loving and vibrant, I can see where she and Verne, her husband, would be very supportive of their daughter- and, I'm sure, beyond heart-broken.

We don't always see that kind of marriage among fundies. We see husbands chastising wives for things like drinking Pepsi. It's good to see that they came around so quickly. To think of so firmly believing in a certain system and then having these terrible consequences visit your own daughter must have been earth-shattering.

I really think Autumn's situation was life changing for the family. Her mother wrote that people who had been "friends" were no longer. Some of them felt that Autumn should have stayed in her marriage. Just submit more. You know it's always the wife's fault. I kind of got the feeling Tracy and Verne had to rethink some of their beliefs. Didn't some in the church tell Autumn that the way her husband treated her was normal and that was how their marriages were? I was so glad Autumn got out within a few months. I give her lots of credit for that. How many much older women stay in abusive marriages for years? Autumn may have been young but she was very mature for her age. The situation was devastating for everyone in the family but they seemed to get through it together.

I wish Tracy would post more often; she changed her blog after Autumn came back home and cut back on how often she posted. And she needs to post more recipes! I loved her recipe blog and make her recipes often.

[longskirts]

I don't find her parents all that amazing. They did not take her back for *months* after the abuse started. Then, when she should have had another two years of schooling, they not only did not provide her with more education but they made her homeschool her younger siblings. They still talked about "training" her to do housework. She had to work full-time minimum wage jobs when she should have been finishing high school. And while it's not completely clear from the blogs, it sounds like they were not very supportive of her college plans and she had to move in with friends when she started thinking about attending college.

I don't get the love for these parents.

[singsingsing]

I'm not disputing that her parents made mistakes, but didn't Autumn hide the abuse from them for quite a while?

[longskirts]

I remember reading that she hid it for a few weeks. But then when she told her mom, her mom did not take her back right away. Instead, Autumn's parents said Jon should get counseling from the pastor and Autumn should stay with him. It was a while after that that they finally took her back.

[erunerune]

I think a better title for this thread at present time would be "Autumn Is a Strong, Intelligent, Resilient Young Woman Who Has Moved On With Her Life In What Appears To Be A Very Positive, Productive, & Healthy Direction" :)

[ILoveJellybeans]

This is the first I have heard of Autumn, but she seems like a very lovely, confident and intelligent woman. Shes been through so much as well, but shes made a good life for herself now and seems to be very happy, with a job she likes and friends :)

[sea_gale]

I've been following Autumn since the days of her engagement, and I'm delighted to see how far she's come. I've bookmarked her blog post about learning Arabic ((!) Remember when she posted that scare video about being outbred by the evil Muslims) as it's a great inspiration.

[salsa]

I'm not disputing that her parents made mistakes, but didn't Autumn hide the abuse from them for quite a while?

Yes, she did. Her mom had what sounds like some kind of, "Let's sit down and you're going to spill it because I can see something is wrong." She may or may not have hinted that things were rocky at first, but because they believed they did everything right, the advice her mom gave was along the fundamentalist party line. This is why I am not so quick to judge them. When the full story came out, it seemed to me (although it's hard to say because nothing was shared publicly except for her husband's absence in pictures and Tracy not mentioning him and Autumn letting her blog go) that they got her out of that house right away.

They home school and I believe Autumn already had a GED prior to getting married, or soon after. It was either a GED or some kind of home school certificate, maybe. In any case, going to high school wasn't logical - and then she'd be going in already as a divorced woman

The fact that their church "friends" thought it was helpful to send nasty e-mails to them and to chastise them rather than loving them is unconscionable. Nothing was ever said, but somehow I have a hunch that they've changed churches.

Also, people don't *usually* reverse their believes all in one moment of epiphany. Even after that terrible ordeal, Autumn said she still believed in early marriage. Then, bit by bit, she grew. I think having Gallagher for awhile was very therapeutic.

What I give credit to is not that they fell into one of the extremes of fundie-hood, but that they recognized the problem of it and took appropriate action. I feel for them. If I put myself in their shoes, seeing my daughter hurt despite everything I did according to some kind of textbook, it would have thrown me for a loop.

I mostly used common sense for my children, with a smattering of Penelope Leach and Dr Spock thrown in, but what if my common sense was wrong and ultimately hurt my daughters? My teenager is showing signs of difficulty and I keep racking my brain wondering what I did wrong. Was I not nurturing enough, was I too stressed out due to work, was it because I took an antidepressant when I was pregnant (meaning one or two pills, when things were particularly stressful) and it altered her brain waves while she was still in me? Did I not protect her from harm (we've learned that some things happened that we didn't know about)?

Tracy and Verne bought into what they were told, that being biblical was the right thing to do. They did it out of love (though you probably will argue that it's not "love" to raise your children this way).

When I see the people who seem to care less about their children, continuing to do harmful things even though they ought to know better (leaving a child in a parked car, drinking to excess while pregnant, leaving them home to fend for themselves, not recognizing the signs of a teenager who's struggling ...), I can't put Verne and Tracy in that category.

It is true that I got a blush of not being happy about Autumn's getting away, but their relationship seems to still be close and they respect Autumn's decisions. Besides, Autumn seems really smart and they probably understand that she craves more intellectual engagement.

[salsa]

I remember reading that she hid it for a few weeks. But then when she told her mom, her mom did not take her back right away. Instead, Autumn's parents said Jon should get counseling from the pastor and Autumn should stay with him. It was a while after that that they finally took her back.

Oh, that's right - and he refused. My mistake. I still don't think it was months, however.

I'd forgotten about the video about Muslims. Wow, she HAS come a long way. She's really remarkable and a skilled writer. I hope she writes it in a book one day.

[longskirts]

Yes, she did. Her mom had what sounds like some kind of, "Let's sit down and you're going to spill it because I can see something is wrong." She may or may not have hinted that things were rocky at first, but because they believed they did everything right, the advice her mom gave was along the fundamentalist party line. This is why I am not so quick to judge them. When the full story came out, it seemed to me (although it's hard to say because nothing was shared publicly except for her husband's absence in pictures and Tracy not mentioning him and Autumn letting her blog go) that they got her out of that house right away.

They home school and I believe Autumn already had a GED prior to getting married, or soon after. It was either a GED or some kind of home school certificate, maybe. In any case, going to high school wasn't logical - and then she'd be going in already as a divorced woman

No, Tracy stated on the blog that after she questioned Autumn and Autumn finally told her everything that was going on, she insisted that Autumn stay and that Jon see the pastor for counseling. It was a while later that Autumn called up and said she could no longer stand it, and then they at last took her back.

She did Switched on Schoolhouse through age 15. She was 16 when she got divorced. She should have had another two years of schooling. And I don't see anything wrong with a divorced woman finishing her high school education. This is not the year 1900.

She ended up in a remedial prealgebra course at a community college because she wasn't prepared for college-level work. That could have been avoided if her parents had provided her with a high school education or allowed her to attend a public school junior and senior year.

[longskirts]

Oh, that's right - and he refused. My mistake. I still don't think it was months, however.

Autumn said on her blog that Jon did go to the counseling sessions but that he continued to abuse her during that time. I don't remember whether it was 6 weeks, 8 weeks, or whatever before her parents did the right thing. It was too long in my opinion.

[longskirts]

Actually, I think it's good for society to have diverse lifestyles for people to choose from, including fundies. I'm okay with courtship if the participants are 18 or older and no one's forced into it. The problem with Autumn's family is they encouraged her to go through a quickie courtship with an older boy who turned out be an abuser--when she was 15. A 15-year-old child is depending on her parents for protection, and these parents failed. Marrying off young teens is not a normal thing even for most fundies. The fundies who are talking up early marriage usually mean 19 or 20 a la Josh and Anna. There is no fundie push for what Autumn's parents did. They are their own kind of crazy.

[ILoveJellybeans]

I cant believe this sort of thing happens in America-usually when you think of people marrying off their 15 year olds, you think of poorer countries, far far away.

[Milly-Molly-Mandy]

Sorry to post again the same thing but her blog is empty for me?

And can anyone point me in the direction of the yuku threads about her? I can't find them.

Pretty please with a cherry on top?

[fun2beme]

Marrying off young teens is not a normal thing even for most fundies.

Agreed. While I join the others who applaud the parents for believing her and taking her back in, I can never get past the fact that they allowed/encouraged their daughter to get married so young.

[salsa]

Agreed. While I join the others who applaud the parents for believing her and taking her back in, I can never get past the fact that they allowed/encouraged their daughter to get married so young.

That. Even by fundy standards. I was shocked at the time (and new to fundy-following), but as I look back, I can't help but have a soft spot for the parents because it had to have been horrifying to believe so devotedly one thing as being good and holy only to have to come to the realization that you just sent your daughter, with your blessings, into a den of hell.

I found Tracy's blog via Domestic Felicity, which I'd just started reading at that time. Anna T wrote a post about how higher education, etc. was unnecessary and that boys and girls are not educated in the practicalities of making a living and making a home.* She also asserted that too many years slip away, extending adolescence, instead of settling down to a homestead. She linked to Tracy's former blog as a good example of "how things ought to be," so there may be an undercurrent within the fundy-hearth-and-home movement to get kids married off and committed to having babies (thank GOODNESS Autumn didn't get pregnant) so there's not much chance for them to desire to pursue, say, oh, I don't know.... college .... critical thinking .... meeting people outside your own bubble ....

* insert the typical, "how hard is it to learn to wipe down a counter or hold down a job and stick to a reasonable budget?" rant here. (though if you *really* want to learn how to homestead, learning some of those pioneer skills could come in handy - learning how to build a chicken coop, how to amend your soil for best vegetable production, canning - but even then it's possible to self-teach in the modern era)

[loulou]

I follow Autumn's blog, ever since her marriage/divorce ordeal. It's like she is a different person now.

I wonder if her parents carry around a lot of guilt. Even though Autumn is OK now, and doing very well, if that was my daughter I don't know that I'd ever get over the guilt of allowing her to marry so young and suffer like that.

I remember Tracey saying "there were red flags" and other such things about the ex.

One theory I have about these parents who allow their kids to marry so young (way too young, IMO). I think they were married young themselves, it worked out and they are still very happy, so they think young marriage is the way to go & it will be the same way for their own kids. Tracey has posted her wedding pictures, and they were pretty young when they got married (not 16, but I'd say 19 or 20). I've seen this in other fundie families too.

I agree that their lives have totally changed. I think Autumn's little sis is about 16 now, still schooling, and we won't see her marrying anytime soon. Both boys live on their own, one has graduated from college, and I think both have girlfriends.