Advice for living in Duggar country

[luckylibrarian]

My niece is moving to Rogers, Arkansas next month. They're right in Duggar country - she has driven by Josh's car lot and been by the Duggar compound. This is her first time moving away from home. It is very likely that she will be working for that giant corporation in Bentonville that begins with a "W". We live in a very pro-Democrat, blue collar part of Ohio, and I think we're all worried that Arkansas will be a culture shock. She's very much a liberal heathen - pro-Obama, lives with her boyfriend, etc.

 

Creaky Steel's comment in the "How vocal are you about your beliefs?" thread made me a little worried:

 

 

Quote

I live near the Duggars in Arkansas and I have to be very careful what I say to whom. I can't talk about drinking, my kid living with his girlfriend, gay marriage, being pro-choice, or even unschooling without risking real consequences. I don't really care what people think, but I am in a position of responsibility in a visible community organization, and I do not want to cause any kind of scandal that could taint the organization. I also like doing what I do so I don't want to be shunned, either.

 

Further, I would like for the kid who is still at home not suffer any consequences as a result of my views. As a kid who didn't go to school here, he's already an outsider, and he doesn't need any strikes against him. He has plenty of friends, though. There are some very poignant bumper stickers that I have really wanted to put on my car, but I like not having my tires slashed (I don't really think that would happen, but one never knows).

 

Does anyone from the area have any advice I could pass along to her? Should she be worried about being a liberal in a conservative area?

[Avalondaughter]

Is everyone in Arkansas Duggary? They did have Bill Clinton as their governer. There must be some pockets of progressiveness.

[FaustianSlip]

Well, I did read this article about a synagogue in Bentonville that opened up basically as a result of Jewish people moving to the area when they started working with/for Wal-Mart, and that was five years ago, so maybe there's hope! No idea what the situation is now, but it did sound like the people in the area responded relatively well to being asked to consider being a bit more inclusive. Of course, my cynical side wonders how much of that is due to the Judeophilia you seem to see in a lot of the conservative Christian set, but still, I think it could be a good sign.

[Grace]

Meh...it's not really that bad. Northwest Arkansas is like a big bubble. It's totally different from the rest of the state. Fayetteville is especially friendly to us Liberals :) I for one find Rogers to be pretty boring but it's not teaming with Fundies by my definition. It's only about a 20min-45min (Depending on traffic) commute between the two towns so I'd recommend living in Fayetteville instead of Rogers if she hasn't already committed to a place. If she has, there will be a fair share of Good-Old-Boys but, depending on where in Rogers she's living there is also a really high Hispanic population. I've never been to the Farmer's Market in Rogers but I know there is one on Saturday mornings but tell your niece the Fayetteville Farmer's Market is great!

If she has any specific questions about the area, let me know! I'm pretty sure there are one or two other people on the board from around here too.

[booksnbeats]

We used to have a pro-choice sticker on our car when we moved to where we live now (in a liberal college town in a conservative state...kind of between the midwest and south). Nothing even that intense: "Keep abortion safe and legal." I never had problems, but two times when my husband was driving on the interstate he had men pulling up beside him, flipping him off, forcing him on the shoulder as they passed, etc. We also had one of our brake lights smashed while our car was parked our first month here, but that also could have been a coincidence. Anyway, my point is to be careful about bumper stickers, especially since you never know what kind of neighborhood/area you might happen to be driving through. There are much better places to share your opinion than on an expensive, moving!! piece of your property! We now have a few that express our political beliefs, but I would not put an abortion sticker on my car in this state.

[fundiefan]

Is everyone in Arkansas Duggary? They did have Bill Clinton as their governer. There must be some pockets of progressiveness.

Yeah, that. I admit that I know very little about the state but they did have a Democrat for a Governor, so even if they go back and forth on blue / red at election time, there are obviously plenty of people who DO go back and forth. He was governor for 12 years. That's a lot of time and several wins over GOP and other candidates.

But, it was also twenty years ago and times have changed and the Duggar's are famous now and their kind of religion has become more 'popular' for lack of a better word at the moment, so what do I know?

[Swamptribe]

My advice, don't let them bully her. Including bullying her into silence.

[SamuraiKatz]

Ah....don't worry too much about it. People are conservative but mostly they mind their own business. My partner and I have raised four daughters in this area without any trouble. We gotten some weird looks from fundie males when we've been out and about. But we always win the staring contests. No matter what they say anonymously on blogs and message boards, these folks wouldn't dare try direct confrontation. Especially in a public place. :D

I've lived in Northwest Arkansas since I was 12--back in the dark ages known as the 1970's. With growth has come some tolerance and diversity.

If she needs a dose of the liberal, Fayetteville or Eureka Springs are very inclusive live and let live cities to visit.

regards

Samurai katz

[kb2]

I live in north LA, which is moderately far away but still pretty conservative.

Basically, just follow the "Don't talk about politics, religion, or money," rule when meeting people for the first couple of times. At best, other people will be following this rule anyway. At worst, they will immediately start talking politics because they will assume you feel the same because they've never met anyone who thinks differently. (And don't make the same mistake yourself--there are people who like Sarah Palin, strange as it may seem.) Just don't bring it up yourself or try to change the subject.

If, after people know you and your personality, you're enduring your fiftieth talk about how Obama is ruining everything and you snap and reveal yourself to be a flaming heathen liberal, your friends will still be your friends. You'll just enter that fun category of "my liberal friend." Trick people into liking you for your personality, and they won't care if you disagree on politics.

But still try to avoid political and religious discussions at work. And if there is one thing that you should never talk about with anyone, it's abortion.

Other than protecting yourself politically, don't worry too much about culture shock. You'll find a bunch of conservatives who do think Sarah Palin is terrible. The vast, vast majority of people under 30 are not opposed to gay marriage. There's some "common ground" to be found. And really, although there are plenty of people who hate SP, my closest friends--the people I get along with the best--like her. Although conservatives have truly terrible ideas as to how the country should be run, most people (in general) do care for their fellow man and are not coming from a place of moral depravity.

[IReallyAmHopewell]

Other than soaking the old Obama/Biden stickers off the car, just shut your mouth and nod and you'll be fine..... Live as close to a university as you can and there will be other "expatriates" there to help!

[snarkykitty]

My inlaws live there, and my FIL side of the family were among the first settlers in a nearby county. It's changed a lot on the past 10 years, but you will find plenty of NRA lovin', Republican supporting, religious people (lots of Baptists), and a decent contingency of liberal, Democrat-voting, pro-choice supporters. (The main newspaper there is called the Arkansas Democrat Gazette.)

You'll also have your college-educated/highly skilled, professionals living in McMansions, and you'll have your blue-collar "good ol' boys" wearing their wranglers and herding cattle.

A few things that seem to be the same across the board, regardless of age, gender, income, social status, or education:

- a love of pickup trucks. The only thing difference is that the wealthier guys have newer models.

- Country music. It's. Everywhere.

- cowboy hats or boots.

- Walmart. Everyone has a family member who somehow works for or with them. Even the southern belle-types shop there. People do their grocery shopping there. I didn't see any other regular markets; at least my inlaws never went to any.

The food is good in NWA, but it's a lot of fried stuff. Monte Ne (in Rogers) has the best fried chicken, in my opinion. It's near impossible to get a good pizza or Italian dinner out there, though. I think it's the water.

Some huge companies were founded and now headquartered in NWA, such as Walmart, Tyson foods, and JB Hunt trucking, By the way, there are tons of chicken houses all over the area. TONS. In sharp contract to the recent modernization of the area, there is still plenty of farmland around (so make your the house isn't downwind of a cow pasture).

There is a lot of new money thanks to Walmart bringing in their vendors to live in the area. Entire neighborhoods were built to support the influx of people. Towns that had only a few hundred people now boast thousands, filling up the schools and demanding new and better resources. Housing is really affordable compared to the east coast. A new-ish 200-sq ft house with a yard in Rogers is about $200k, a bit higher than some of the surrounding towns (here, it would be about $350k).The construction is solidly built, and most of the newer homes come with really nice tile, granite counters, open floor plans, modern kitchens with tons of storage space and high-end appliances.

For ideas on the housing, go to realtor.com and put in the town "Rogers", min 3 bathrooms, and see what comes up. Lots of listings have amazing photos of just gorgeous interiors. The outside is usually brick, and lately many builders have been putting really nice stone work into the exteriors.

Nearby Bella Vista was rated as one of the top places to retire. Fayetteville, where the university calls home, has a great mix of people (tolerant, diverse, artsy) and even has some night life. They have a new airport in NW Arkansas, MUCH better than the itty bitty one we used to fly into.

What specifically does she want to know?

[snarkykitty]

Double post but I am wordy today:

I thought I might add things that I, as a northener, find hard to deal with.

1. Obviously, the lack of good Italian food

1a. People saying "Eye-talian."

2. People seem to lack the level of sarcasm that east coasters have. Few people can quote Seinfeld back to you. I've offended a few people (okay, my SIL) because she didn't get that I was joking.

3. Too hot and humid in the summer. I'd passive aggressively keep changing my MIL thermostat because I was sweating. She didn't feel hot at all, in her three layers, long pants and slippers on?

4. Different things to be allergic to. Honeysuckle? I had never encountered that til one of my visits.

5. Not many options in terms of medical specialists for those with complex medical issues. Traveling to Little Rock or up to MO is often needed.

6. Spring/early summer storms. They are severe, and there is decent risk of tornadoes.

7. It's too far from my family. As nice as the Inlaws are, and as dysfunctional as my own family is, I fear that when my health declines, I won't be able to get home.

8. Too far from the ocean. Some people have never seen the ocean, and they are in their 50s.

9. Too close to Branson. Enough said.

10. Not many Catholic churches. Imagine, a short, Italian, Catholic girl from the east coast, visiting my inlaws who all tower over me, call me "the little eye-talian girl" or "that yankee", and who, when joining the family at church (Methodist? Presbyterian??) on Easter, don't use the extra part of the "Our Father" and therefore felt funny just standing there while everyone finished.

11. Nighttime tv comes on an hour earlier. Prime time is NOT 7PM!!

12. They don't "get" Letterman or SNL

What i enjoy about it there:

1. Farms.

2. Farm animals

3. Any animals

4. Watching and feeding baby cows

5. Riding horses on uncle's ranch

6. seeing an SEC school sport's game

7. Dillards Department Store!

8. Landscapes that I'm not used to. The flatness on one side, and the Ozark mountains on the other, are great contradictions.

9. Close to Eureka Springs. I love crafts!!

10. Most people are really nice. I get called "miss" or "ma'am" a lot.

11. Seeing my nieces - who grow up too fast - :(.

If I think of anything else, I'll let you know.

[Franny]

I am in my mid-twenties and I work for a vendor in Bville. I would definitely advise living in Fayetteville, if possible. The Rogers/Bville area is rather boring. Fayetteville has great nightlife, the university, an awesome farmers market, and lots of unique, local businesses. It is also where you will find the most liberal of the residents of NWA. I live there and love it. The commute can get to be a little long, but only by NWA standards....live in any other city and its rather short (20-30 minutes, tops). Hope this helps!

[dianapavelovna]

Ahhh....Arkansas. First of all, reassure your niece that - Duggars notwithstanding - she is moving to one of the most interesting and liberal parts of Arkansas. Definitely agree with the others that she should live in Fayetteville if she can - the university brings a lot of diversity of opinions as well as decent culture. (As far as that goes, there's also Crystal Bridges - the fairly impressive art museum that Alice Walton is building up - and the Clinton Presidential Center, which is well worth the drive to LR.) Eat at AQ Chicken. Follow the Hogs & learn how to call 'em! :) They are what people talk about since Arkansas has no pro sports teams. Also wanna get in a plug for the UA women's gymnastics team, who are damn good. Lots of big name bands and singers come to town every year for the Wal-Mart Shareholders' meeting. Get used to shopping at Wal-Mart, because it is KIIIIING (I actually get homesick when I got to a SuperCenter these days). Don't read the letters to the editor in the newspaper unless you need to get worked up. Tulsa has a lot more to offer, and it's only three hours away. The cost of living is super cheap! Go Duggar hunting! I have a friend who's still in NWA who makes a hobby of it when she goes to Aldi.

My strategy for being a big ol' heathen liberal in redland (tested in Arkansas, Oklahoma, AND Texas) is to keep my cards close to my chest and wait for cues from other people. But I don't ever lie or back off my opinions, and I've found that as long as you're respectful, others are as well. As for slashing tires and the like, well, that's just cowardice, and I refuse to be scared out of anything, but I do have the luxury of working in a pretty liberal profession, so I'm not worried about it affecting my job.

[Blonde not dumb]

I don't have any AR experience but I am from the south. While coastal south is decidedly different from Arkansas, some of the pervasive conservative attitudes are similar.

My advice would be don't lose too much sleep over it. People are conservative but most aren't like the Duggars. As some on here have mentioned, living in a major college or university town (such as the University of Arkansas) will generally mean you live in a more liberal area. However, most people won't bring up politics especially if they don't know you well. Politics and money are really considered to be "third rail" issues that most people won't touch among casual acquaintances unless you bring it up first. You'll also find people who still vote Democrat in local elections (a relic of the still dying "solid south") but would never, ever vote for a Democrat for President. That being said, you'll still get people who will assume that no one likes Obama (despite the results of the 2008 election) and that everyone believes the world was created in 7 literal days, etc... In those cases sometimes it's best to just grit your teeth and remind yourself that you can't reason with crazy and in those extra special cases you just can't outwit pure stupidity. They wouldn't understand anyway.

[Kitchen Princess]

My niece is moving to Rogers, Arkansas next month. They're right in Duggar country - she has driven by Josh's car lot and been by the Duggar compound. This is her first time moving away from home. It is very likely that she will be working for that giant corporation in Bentonville that begins with a "W". We live in a very pro-Democrat, blue collar part of Ohio, and I think we're all worried that Arkansas will be a culture shock. She's very much a liberal heathen - pro-Obama, lives with her boyfriend, etc.

Creaky Steel's comment in the "How vocal are you about your beliefs?" thread made me a little worried:

Does anyone from the area have any advice I could pass along to her? Should she be worried about being a liberal in a conservative area?

It really isn't that bad. Rogers even has a very active free-thinkers/atheist group.

It's bad for me because I have invested in the community, and the town I live in has a reputation as uber conservative. Rogers will be a piece of cake, because it is so much larger. Room for everyone.

She'll have to learn how to dodge/defer the church question. She'll have to figure out when she can be open about drinking alcohol or going to the casino and with whom she can discuss it.

She'll have an advantage that she won't have to fend off any bullshit if she just goes ahead and puts an Obama sticker on her car. Most of them will just write her off right away, and that's a very good thing.

It's not the young people whom she will have to worry about. It's the older ones. And, there IS a Christian bias at WM HQ, but it's not fundie. OTOH there will be plenty of people from other places, so she'll find friends.

[Kitchen Princess]

Is everyone in Arkansas Duggary? They did have Bill Clinton as their governer. There must be some pockets of progressiveness.

Well, no. But Rogers is where the Republicans are. If you look at the color-coded election results maps, there's a big blue swath that covers the bottom half of the states, and a red swath in the NW corner, with a tiny little splash of blue in downtown Fayetteville, around the university.

[Kitchen Princess]

~~You'll also have your college-educated/highly skilled, professionals living in McMansions, and you'll have your blue-collar "good ol' boys" wearing their wranglers and herding cattle. ~~

You mean chickens. ;)

By the way, Rogers in Benton County, which is dry. Which means no liquor stores. Which means weird "private" club rules wherein all the chain restaurants still serve alcohol, but they are technically private clubs and you may need to "sign in" at the door when you enter (it just depends on the restaurant and whether they're requiring it at the time). She can ignore the book if she's not asked to sign it.

I wouldn't live in Fayetteville and work in Rogers. I-540 is THE most frustrating interstate to drive on, because most people do not know how to maintain speed on hills, and it has only been there for like 10 years, so the natives have trouble with it. I would shoot myself in the head if I had to take 540 every single day. (My most recent foray into a big city was with a 10' box truck in Manhattan, so I know what from interstates.)

There are really nice, affordable, cozy and downtown places to live in Rogers and Bentonville. I'd do that. Almost anywhere is considered "safe" for a single gal to have a place by herself, but she should remember that low-rent usually means low-lifes.

There are grocery stores besides WM. Marvin's which has a few, and Harps, which are everywhere. There is also a very nice WM Neighborhood Market in Rogers.

It's not liberal in NWA, compared to Little Rock. Or Ohio. There are no democrats in office here.

[snarkykitty]

~~You'll also have your college-educated/highly skilled, professionals living in McMansions, and you'll have your blue-collar "good ol' boys" wearing their wranglers and herding cattle. ~~

You mean chickens. ;)

Hubby's cousins has several hundred head of cattle and still work the farm.

But, yeah, the chicken houses are everywhere. Hubby worked one summer in a chicken house as a teenager. I couldn't do it.

[luckylibrarian]

Thanks, everyone! Her fiance has a townhouse in Rogers, so they'll be there at least for the next six months. He works for WM in Bentonville, and she's hoping to get a job there or with a vendor but so far, no luck. She'll be working retail in the meantime. It's her first time living away from home, and she's nervous about the culture shock and the tornadoes.

She did promise to keep me updated on any fundie sightings!