advice for woman with gay husband

[Lainey]

I'm sorry you're going through this, Raine. I agree with nimerha--he's being an asshole. He should never pressure you into doing something you don't want to do. That's wrong. I hate it when men do that to women. I had an ex-boyfriend somewhat like that--it wasn't to the extreme you're dealing with, but I refused things like threesomes he tried to force me into, and I could see it having gone more "out there" like that if I'd stayed with him. I think you should get out.

[Pearl]

I agree with Nimhra - you need to find a way to get out. More than likely he can't "take" custody of your child. It would probably be joint. My asshole would threaten to take custody of the kids away from me and my lawyer actually laughed and said that was not possible. More than likely - you might be able to take custody of your child from him, if he's into dangerous things (although I doubt that would be possible either - I think it's very hard to get sole custody).

If he's threatening to kill himself then he is using that to control you and to manipulate you into doing something you don't want to do. He's an adult man who can make his own decisions in life and you are in no way responsible for whatever harmful behaviors he submits himself to.

Sorry if I seem a bit pushy - this has pushed some buttons for me.

BTW Debt will always be there. I'm pretty certain you can't be thrown in jail for debt, so you might have to take a hit on your credit in order to be able to have some peace in your life. In fact, I would say that you might be better able to face your debt if you can get rid of some of your household anguish.

There are TON of services out there. You would qualify for welfare and possibly childcare. The childcare program where I am at allows me to choose which daycare/pre-school to put my children in. Childcare is not the end of the world - I was a fundie when I got a divorce and I found out that daycare wasn't the big evil I was fearful of it being. If you are close with your parents, you might consider begging them for a ticket for you and your son to their home.

DOCUMENT everything! And I mean EVERYTHING. Document the sites he goes to, his username, what he looks at, the ad he placed on Craigslist without your consent, anything that's weird, how he treats your child, etc.

[Lainey]

What Pearl said, too! Especially the documenting everything part.

Regarding the part about his threatening to commit suicide, that really is his problem, not yours. It is designed to manipulate you, and if he keeps it up, eventually you'll be offering to help him get it over with already (at least, that's what happened to me with my mom when she kept threatening it). And then he'll whine that you're being meeeeeeeeeean! :roll:

No wonder you're struggling with depression and anxiety. I am too, and if I was dealing with what you're dealing with, I think that might send me right over the edge. You need to get out for your own mental health and well-being.

[Gizmola]

Raine,

I have some experience with my most recent ex in regards to differences in sexual situations, fetishes, etc. It's not something I want to discuss publicly but I would be happy to share with you privately. You're welcome to PM if you want some more support.

I agree that the most important thing is that regardless of what he's going through YOU have to do what's best for YOU. If you do not want to engage in the activities he's proposing then DON'T. Do not make the mistake of thinking that if only you do A, B or C then things will work out. You have the authority and the right to set your own limits, psychologically, emotionally and, especially, sexually. Your sexuality is yours and yours alone. And a man who truly loves a woman would ever pressure her to do anything with which she's not comfortable.

We're in your corner, Raine. And if there is anything I can do to help, let me know.

[Effie]

What Pearl said, too! Especially the documenting everything part.

Regarding the part about his threatening to commit suicide, that really is his problem, not yours. It is designed to manipulate you, and if he keeps it up, eventually you'll be offering to help him get it over with already (at least, that's what happened to me with my mom when she kept threatening it). And then he'll whine that you're being meeeeeeeeeean! :roll:.

I know this too well. As a quite lonely person I have always tried to find a good friend. 3 years ago I found a good friend (or so I thought). After knowing each other for a little while, he told me about his depression, anxiety and that he was contemplating suicide. He got very attached to me and said he would not commit suicide if I didn't leave him. Later he said he would not commit suicide if I didn't deny his love. Long story - short -> I got myself involved in a relationship with him for 2 years because I felt responsible for his psychical illhealth. I spent almost each third whole night talking and trying to convince him not to kill himself and then later falling asleep during my work/school. I got intimate with him eventhough I felt absolutely no attraction. I hurt myself a lot, in order to please him.

Edit. Sorry if that was off-topic.

[freehannie]

I am so sorry to hear all of this. What I didn't hear in any of this story was any behavior that sounded loving towards you in this relationship. You deserve better than that. We all do. I strongly recommend counseling for yourself. If you aren't ready to leave, the counseling can help you establish boundaries, take care of your own needs as well as your child's, and plan for your future. It can be overwhelming if you are in an unsupportive relationship and the help of a therapist who is supportive of you is invaluable to learning what it's like to be in a healthy relationship.

All I can say is that people who love you don't threaten you, don't try to get you to do things you are uncomfortable with, and worry about your feelings as well as their own. I really wish you the best.

[clarinetpower]

Edited because I'm an idiot and missed the big long post with the whole explanation thing.

Sigh.

That's what happens when your kids DSRSXR

I'd edit that out, but once again, I got distracted by my kids...

Raine, I am so sorry this is happening to you. And I echo the others, document, get representation, and get out. This is abuse, and it's scary, crazy abuse.

[antifundie]

Raine, I am so sorry that you have to deal with this!!! I can't even imagine how hard it must be. You mentioned church, so I'll say that I will pray for you.

That being said, what do YOU want? I mean, sure, most people wouldn't want to deal with this stuff at all, but aside from that, if you don't want an open relationship (or whatever) then don't do it.

Do you want to stay married? Why does he?

And (I'm throwing in my 2 cents here, feel free to ignore)--you said elsewhere that your husband doesn't want your son in daycare, but wants you to get a job, even at the expense of your being able to sleep. To me, (and based on what you've said here) it sounds like he pretty much doesn't care about your needs at all. And THAT is not acceptable--gay, bi, whatever, if he won't see your humanity, your needs as a partner/spouse/parent, etc.

At this point, I think you should be 100% selfish, at least for a bit. Decide what you want out of life, and where he (and his sexual ideas) fit in. And I think individual counseling might help you sort that out.

And, I'm going to respectfully disagree with clarinetpower, above, and say screw his needs right now, screw being supportive. Be selfish. Think about your needs, your son's needs, and what you want from life. You can decide if he fits after you figure some of that out for yourself.

It sounds to me like he's massively confusing fantasy with reality. There are many things that could be fun in theory (sex-wise)but complicated/ugly/not that hot/dangers (in the case of unprotected sex)--and most people get that. It seems like he doesn't--if he's reading about a bunch of sexual stuff online and wanting to try it out--well, it might be as exciting as he thought, or it might not be.

Please take care of yourself! And I'm so sorry. :(

[antifundie]

Ok, I re-read your post, and saw that he's forced you to do sexual things that gave you panic attacks and caused you to go to the hospital because of a suicide attempt???

Sorry, but I'm just going to say DTMF. Why put yourself through this? What would you tell your best friend?

He's forcing you into sexual activities that you don't want, making fun of you for leaving the house to go to church when you don't get to go anywhere else?

No. Just...that's emotionally and sexually abusive, at the very least.

I'm so so so sorry. Can you stay with family or friends?

You can do this!

ETA: When I've been to counseling, (non-marriage related, but still), one of the things a counselor said that in relationships, (partnered, married, whatever), your problems ARE each other's problems. Meaning, you don't take it on yourself, but that (ideally) together you can look at the issue as a third entity, and discuss how to handle it. So, him saying you have to deal is crap.

[Guest Anonymous]

he's being a fucktard and this is most certainly not your problem. It's not about his orientation or fetishes, it's about the fact that he's being a cruel, manipulative, selfish, abusive asshole.

I can't come up with anything else to say than... get the fuck out. The more I look at what you wrote... this man has deliberately cut you off from your community and support, your church; he's pressured into things that have made you so anxious as to even consider suicide - for his sexual gratification and he refuses to see this as his fucking problem - this is not a space for anyone to be. You're a person, not a plaything. It's not about what he's asking of you, is that he's asking - demanding - in the first place when it's clear you're not okay, that you're miserable for it.

Raine, I too am so very sorry to hear all this. I can only wholeheartedly agree with nimerha above. You are a dear person and worth so much more than this. You only have one life and you deserve to be free and live well.

Personally, I have not experienced the extreme situation you describe, and don't want to sound glib, but I have been in a situation of walking away from a partner who threatened suicide if I left (he's still alive.....) and I have suffered depression severely enough to need medication, and I have known the dreadful paralysis that brings to decision-making. I wish I could help you in some way, but can only send warm wishes and positive hopes for your future.

Reading this thread has brought to my mind the story told by "Journey" over on the No Longer Quivering main board and forums. She is a wonderfully eloquent writer who had to leave an abusive husband in a situation where she had no college qualfications, a pile of debt, 5 young children and a church that was urging her to forgive her husband and take him back. Her husband's issues were not around sexual orientation, but the undertones were of control and domination and abuse. Her postings are sketchy but, from what I have read, she seems to have painfully crawled out of the situation, and reached a point where she is absolutely thriving on her new freedom.

I am in the UK and don't know much about the resources available to women in your situation but I hope others with relevant information can chime in and help provide direction for you to seek appropriate practical help as well as the emotional support you need.

[debrand]

Everyone has already given you great advice. All I can add is that you are in my thoughts and I hope that everything turns out all right for you.

[lilah]

What I do have a problem with is someone marrying a person without telling them things like this then expecting them not only to be accepting, but to also give them permission to have extramarital

But to be fair maybe he didn't have those fantasies and desires when he first married you. I don't know what kind of childhood he had but I am going to assume that if you are comng from a fundamentalist christian background he probably had it drilled into his head by someone that the goal of sex is for procreation between a man and wife when they are married. Again, I don't knwo your husband or his background, that's my educated guess

I'm going to put on my way way way armchair psychologist hat here and say that perhaps say that it sounds to me like maybe he used to have maybe he was raised with kind of repressive attitudes towards sex so now that he's an adult with an internent connection it sounds like the pendulum has completely swung the opposite way and he's sowing every wild ot humanly can, wanting to engage in all kinds of crazy, kinky recreation sex.

It sounds like you have made a very heroic effort to be accomodating of his sexual needs. It's time for him to step up to the plate and make an effort to find a compromise between the two fo you. I think you need to at least try and do some counseling before you throw in the towel. Use his fear of divorce if you have to leverage him into counseling. Try and find a counselor who is a little bit familiar with kinks.

[Jamanda]

Me again:

Clearly you situation is quite different from my mother's. However, one of the common elements was that you married a man with certain expectations. You agreed to, lets face it, a contract-with certain terms. Now this is real life and people sometimes have to be flexible. You have been MORE than felxible, has he? It sounds like he is changing the rules of the relationship, being selfish (amateur psychologist here thinks he is trying to find himself), and he is not being mindful of the impact his struggle is having on you. You cannot fix him. Only he can fix him (ie find himself, be happy with who he is).

Relationships are give and take, from BOTH parties. It does not seem like your husband is prepared to be giving, but is happy to take.

Please please protect yourself! The human heart is capable of great love and giving, but its a tank that can run dry if no one ever gives back to you. You have poured your heart into this relationship, and I don't even have to know you well to tell you that you are a wonderful worthwhile woman, who DESERVES an equal partner. You DESERVE to be loved and cherished and appreciated. Your husband NEEDS to recognise you and your value.

I second the call for therapy, either together, or individually (you alone and if you can get him to, him alone as well).

Therapy helped my mum, it didn't save her marriage (dad had checked out already), but it saved HER.

The world needs YOU Raine, FJ needs you.

WE love you

[Guest Anonymous]

I am so sorry and my advice is only what others have said - he's a sexually abusing asshole who you need to leave - cutting you off from your church community shows progressively abusive behaviour. Bi, gay, straight, doesn't even matter - it presents to me more like he's got a big time addiction that he's using you to fulfill. Unless he gets treatment for that, his addiction will continue to be more important to him than you and your family are.

[Chrystal-J]

I'm glad someone started this thread. My husband was gay and I'm still wrestling with that years after his passing. (He had life-long health issues.) He would never admit he was gay or not. Just gave vague answers like "I sure hope not!" But, it was pretty obvious after a while. I never felt it was my fault he was gay or anything. But, I often felt very "left out" in my relationship with him. He would never let me get close to him emotionally.

After reading this thread, it's comforting to see that I'm not alone in this. (I often felt that way during our marriage, and I still do sometimes.)

He's been gone 4 years and I still miss him--even with our issues.

[treemom]

I second the recommendation from Mel White.

[Austin]

I'm glad someone started this thread. My husband was gay and I'm still wrestling with that years after his passing. (He had life-long health issues.) He would never admit he was gay or not. Just gave vague answers like "I sure hope not!" But, it was pretty obvious after a while. I never felt it was my fault he was gay or anything. But, I often felt very "left out" in my relationship with him. He would never let me get close to him emotionally.

After reading this thread, it's comforting to see that I'm not alone in this. (I often felt that way during our marriage, and I still do sometimes.)

He's been gone 4 years and I still miss him--even with our issues.

I'm so sorry for your loss, Chrystal-J.

[Chrystal-J]

I'm so sorry for your loss, Chrystal-J.

Thank you Austin.

[Guest Anonymous]

Setting aside the issue of his orientation entirely: he's sneaking around behind your back to exchange sexual messages with people on the internet, offering sex with you to other people without your permission, he's cut you off from your IRL support, he's threatening suicide, and you're sounding pretty convinced that he's sleeping around on you (or will) and that he won't use protection, which means he is (or will) risking your life or health.

1. This does not sound like a loving, healthful relationship. 2. This does not sound like a situation in which one would want to raise a child. 3. Any time your relationship starts sounding like the plot of a Law and Order: SVU episode, it's probably time to GFTO.

edited to fix a typo

[kb2]

I don't have any advice to add because other people have more knowledge and said it more eloquently, but I'm very sorry this is happening.

[lovefromgirl]

I have to say this: what an asshole. I'll say it as a non-religious, kinky, queer woman involved in BDSM and in a serious, long-term non-monogamous relationship: he's being a fucktard and this is most certainly not your problem. It's not about his orientation or fetishes, it's about the fact that he's being a cruel, manipulative, selfish, abusive asshole.

What she said.

Like ethical non-monogamy, kink requires the consent of all parties involved. Both SSC and RACK have that crucial C in there. If you did not consent to participate in his cuckold fetish, that should have been the end of it.

He has also written in a journal that he would kill himself if I ever left him, but I don't know if he feels that way or if it is something he wrote knowing I would find it and read it.

That's kind of disgusting of him. Holding that over your head is something I personally would not be able to forgive.

Also, from everything you've written, it sounds like he has been emotionally abusive at the very least; isolation is a pretty common tactic.

At this point, since he's unwilling to change for anything, and you are obviously suffering, I'd say lawyer up and get that divorce anyway. At the very least, it sounds like he's going to bring you home an STD.

[Sola]

Quite a bit more than we originally thought. Raine, you have my sympathies here. The issue really isn't about him being gay/bi/whatever. I honestly think the issue is that he is an arsehole. The whole, 'I will kill myself if you leave', just screams control freakery to me.

Honestly, from what you have put you don't seem to have a marriage worth saving. I'd give him the boot, this isn't healthy for you or your child.

(((hugs)))

[Witsec6]

My mother was in a similar situation to you (he wanted an open relationship, she didn't, he tried to involve her in fulfilling his sexual fantasies, she put the brakes on)... she stayed with him for 10 years and never trusted him, but she stayed because she loved him so much. I remember finding condoms in her overnight bag and knowing that he was having an affair and she knew it (my stepdad had gotten the snip). Anyway, he was a very sad, confused man whom my mother loved dearly. He was also emotionally abusive, distant, untrustworthy and manipulative.

Raine, I'm sure you still love him very much, but you have to love YOU, too. Even your short post shows that you don't trust your husband, that he has pressured you into sexual acts that you were not comfortable with (I call that rape), that he does not respect your boundaries in sex, and that he wants his mental health to be your responsibility. It's easy for us to say "Leave", but hard when you love him so much it breaks your heart. Whatever you decide, I think you're brave.

[Kaylee]

I wanted to say thanks to everyone who replied for the advice and understanding.

I'm not sure what I'm going to do right now. We've talked some over the past few days, and have plans to talk more and to try to find a counselor we both agree on. I know most people would just say leave, and I've found out he's been getting the same advice, but we do both want to stay together (not just because of our son, we still love each other and do still have good times, just a lot less than we used to - it's complicated).

In talking more, and looking back, we really were having problems even before much of the sexual/sexuality stuff came up, but all that became something easy to focus on without addressing everything else (ie, even most of my probs with that come down to feeling like he's controlling and not caring about my needs at all). It's just all really come to a head since having the baby because I went from working night shift plus a second full-time job, where I worked 90+ hours a week and spent most of my time at home asleep, to being home. It was easy for us to ignore each other before and now that we are around each other, it's clear that there are major problems.

He does admit that he has problems and doesn't really know "how" to be a father or husband (his dad is a drunk, abusive, womanizer and just an all-around asshole who has made a lot of our problems worse). He says he's willing to try to change, which is an improvement from before, and I'm trying to tell him that for this to work we are really going to need a counselor or some time of third party to help us even learn to talk to each other without all the blaming and getting pissed off. I know that a lot of his behavior is emotionally abusive, because it got really bad while I was pregnant and a few people pointed it out to me. He has gotten better some in that department, since I started pointing out things he was doing and saying and how they made me feel, but it's still a problem.

As far as the sexual stuff, I don't know if he's gay, bi, or straight and just curious, and he either doesn't know or doesn't want to answer right now. He did say that he thinks any kind of discussion about kink or poly or anything like that needs to be shelved right now, until we work out our problems and figure out where we are and we we want out of our relationship. He says a lot of the whole push to try new things was thinking that a change or some variety might make our relationship better (one of his dad's brilliant ideas), and that he thought being with other guys might help me get the attention and affection I needed that he didn't seem to be able to give me (I think he gets it now that it wasn't just that I want those things from anyone, I want them from him). I also explained to him that all the pressure and his seeming addiction to internet porn/forums is what has turned me off from a lot of stuff I would have been ok with before, and that I resent the time he's spending on those things to the neglect of our marriage.

We also agreed I need to get out of the house some and away from him and the baby, and that might help some with stress and let me meet new people. I don't know that he meant to be as isolating as all this comes across, because I have a tendency to isolate myself when I am depressed or anxious. One thing that came up is he feels like a failure because so much in our lives didn't work out like we'd thought it would, and he had some major blows to his career (He was passed over for a vice presidency in a labor manufacturing company because he was seen at a protest, then was unemployed when that place shut down. He's working as a machine operator on hourly pay, and had figured by now he'd be running a company for himself or someone else). He says he felt jealous of a lot of my friends, because I seemed happier and more relaxed around them, and he didn't feel like he measured up. He also says he feels like "church people" are going to judge him and that I will look down on him for not being a Christian (um, not really, I have one of the most conflicted religious backgrounds of anyone I know).

I guess right now it just all depends on how things work out, if he'll go to counseling and if we will be able to fix the things that are wrong. Even if we do end up getting divorced, I still think we need to work on the worst of our problems so we can have a halfway decent relationship afterwards since we still have a child to raise. One of the things I asked him when we first got together was to be sure a relationship wouldn't screw up our friendship (he was my best friend, and we had so much fun together), and I feel like if we break up now I'm losing both.

eta 2 other things that were mentioned:

He says he hasn't slept with anyone else, and that he was just looking on craigslist for someone to talk to that might understand him. He also showed me the email history, and it backs it up - him refusing to meet with anyone in person and asking questions, then breaking off the exchanges with a few people when they turned more to wanting to meet or sext. Since he was so hung up on getting me to OK it, and because it would be hard for him to to do except the few times I've gone out of town to visit my parents, I do believe that he hasn't been with anybody else.

He didn't straight up tell me he'd kill himself if I left. I read it in a journal he was writing in that I found. I don't know if he intended for me to find it or not, and I never mentioned reading it to him, but at the time I was trying to figure out what really was going on with him. The whole situation was fucked up because he wrote this in the middle of an entry about how hard things were on him while I was in the hospital following a suicide attempt. I would think he wouldn't have gone all passive aggressive and purposely left it for me to find under those circumstances, but who knows.

[jjmennonite]

I agree with the people that say it is not about his orientation, but about him being a controlling abuser. Emotional abuse is insidious - because you can be in an abusive situation for a long time without realizing it. I was sexually abused as a child and then had an abusive live-in boyfriend for a few years. I have read extensively in the process of recovery. Check out http://forums.our-place-online.net/inde ... howforum=7 for lots of info on abuse.

One caution about couples counseling, a controller can easily hijack counseling sessions, and most people on this abuse board say couples counseling does not work in abuse situations. A surprising number of counselors have no experience with and/or do not recognize emotional and verbal abuse. An intense desire to change and extensive individual counseling for the abuser works in a small percentage of cases. I can't cite references for this except the above website and stories I have heard, so this is my opinion, not science.