Baker refuses to do a wedding cake for a lesbian couple

[Beeks]

therottenlittlegirls.com/2008/09/08/buyer-beware-forever-21s-hidden-evangelical-message/

They have John 3:16 printed on their bags.

I can understand (but not support) the baker's decision not to make the cake. For all we know she wouldnt make a cake for a bar mitzvah or a democratic convention. Its her right as a business owner. But atleast the word is out so consumers can make an educated decision when choosing a baker - although something tells me fundies will rush to support her. Maybe Dougie will give her an award, oh wait... she's a woman working... BAD!!

That's boycott-worthy to you?

[QuoVadis]

Devilsadvocate6...I agree; there seems to be more than is just reported. The story says one thing and then the comment from a supposed friend of the couple says another. Wouldn't the couple themselves had stated the issue happened as their friend said it did if it really did happen that way? (Don't know if that made sense :-) )

And just as a side note, the baker didn't state that she refused to do all sorts of cakes for all gay/lesbian couples; she refused to do a wedding cake for a lesbian couple. I see that as differing qualitatively than refusing all business to a class of persons; she's refusing what she sees as participation and support in an event she believes is immoral.

It reminds me of a situation that happened as I was living in the ME....one of the best and well known bakeries (that made really great cakes!) in my town refused to do an Easter cake because the Muslim owner said it would violate his religious principles. End result: many of the Christians that knew about it decided to frequent another lesser-known bakery and many Muslim friends thought it was good of the owner and kept their business there. I'd expect the outcome to be the same here, business wise.

[fundyfunland]

The difference is that she's the business owner and so can set her own policies (no matter how foolish or bigoted). The cable guy is probably not the owner of the cable company.

Re: Domino's, the owner is a longtime donor to anti-abortion organizations, including Operation Rescue.

Glad I'm not the only one to boycott Domino's for their anti-choice stance. They've also refused to rent out one of their conference centres in the past to feminist organizations, due to their fundie beliefs.

I still think business owners have the right to refuse to do business with anyone, but don't agree w/ their decision to refuse in this case at all.

[Rosa]

The cable company and the electric company are publicly licensed to use publicly funded/owned resources to sell their services; so we get to set the rules for who they can discriminate against. The biggie not covered right now in most places is landlords, unless your state has a gender & sexual orientation protection.

Wedding cakes...I am really glad this woman got the publicity of what a total judgemental bitch she has. In this economy, she'll suffer for it.

[anniebgood]

That's boycott-worthy to you?

So does In'N'Out print John 3:16 on the bottom of their drink cups, (the best hamburgers ever) but that doesn't deter me from eating there.

[Guest Anonymous]

I have a couple places I won't shop because of their support of issues I feel they should be neutral on, but as conservative as I am, I can't say I'd be upset if a company that was owned by Muslims put some verse out of the Quran on their packaging. I might go home and look up the verse or I might just ignore it, but it certainly wouldn't make me horrified or make me not want to do business with them anymore. Personally, I don't see how the reference to a verse from any holy book is so threatening or scary.

[Guest Anonymous]

In the UK, the Equality Act could probably be used to bring a case against the cake people, as the anti-discrimination law applies to commercial enterprises. Whether or not the case would be upheld would be another matter as the law in this area is so new and not widely tested.

There is currently a case going through the Court of Appeal relating to two hoteliers who were fined earlier this year for refusing to allow a gay couple to share a room at their hotel. Their appeal argument is that the judge in the original hearing did not fairly balance their right to practice their religion against the gay couple's right no to be discriminated against for their sexual orientation:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/no ... sfeed=true

[annalena]

I wonder what happened if an Atheist denied cakes to all Christian/Muslim/Buddhist/religious couples.

[annalena]

I have a couple places I won't shop because of their support of issues I feel they should be neutral on, but as conservative as I am, I can't say I'd be upset if a company that was owned by Muslims put some verse out of the Quran on their packaging. I might go home and look up the verse or I might just ignore it, but it certainly wouldn't make me horrified or make me not want to do business with them anymore. Personally, I don't see how the reference to a verse from any holy book is so threatening or scary.

I would. It's indoctrinating. Same with the John 3:16. Who are others to tell me what I shall believe?

[Kelya]

I'm not sure how this works, but I think it might be illegal in my former state, sexual orientation is a protected class.

[Guest Anonymous]

I love that her excuse was basically "It's not you, it's me".

[clibbyjo]

I just hope everyone in the town read the story and chose to take their business elsewhere. I also hope some awesome baker, who makes the best wedding cakes in the world volunteered to do the lesbian couples cake instead.

[Rosa]

I am pretty sure that they are going to be offered a huge discount on a wedding cake somewhere.

I mean, I don't know about Des Moines but in my hometown, elsewhere in Iowa, the wedding industry is half cut-rate from-home fundies and half gay, gay, gay, gay.

[Deleted03]

I am pretty sure that they are going to be offered a huge discount on a wedding cake somewhere.

I mean, I don't know about Des Moines but in my hometown, elsewhere in Iowa, the wedding industry is half cut-rate from-home fundies and half gay, gay, gay, gay.

reminds me of one of the boards pro gay marriage: we'll save the economy! or something of the sort :P

[Guest Anonymous]

I would. It's indoctrinating. Same with the John 3:16. Who are others to tell me what I shall believe?

So if the bag had a quote from Star Trek that means they're trying to make you believe in science fiction? Or a quote from a Buddhist writing means they are trying to convert you to Buddhism?

This is not to mention that the bag didn't even have the actual verse, just the reference to it which means a person doesn't even know what the actual verse is unless they either know the Bible verse already or they look it up.

[Guest Anonymous]

I have a friend who is a very talented crafter/sewist. She sews a personalised label with a bible verse onto every item she makes. I sometimes buy things from her for my own use, but would never buy anything to gift to others, because I would feel very uncomfortable about passing on something with a bible verse.

With the forever21 bag issue, my country has recently intrduced a law to enforce shops to charge for all carrier bags. I wuld object strongly to paying for a shop to advertise bible verses, so I would just take my own bag in that situation.

[JumpingtheSnark]

What I think will happen is that most people will avoid this bakery from now on. Younger people tend to be the ones getting married, and support for same sex marriage is highest among this group.

Lady just shot herself in the foot. Also: Purple Pie Man

[Hane]

This is why I'm glad that I made a couple of free wedding cakes for lesbian couples back before same-sex marriages were legalized in my state.

[fundiefan]

So if the bag had a quote from Star Trek that means they're trying to make you believe in science fiction? Or a quote from a Buddhist writing means they are trying to convert you to Buddhism?

This is not to mention that the bag didn't even have the actual verse, just the reference to it which means a person doesn't even know what the actual verse is unless they either know the Bible verse already or they look it up.

Just as the baker had a right to deny services to people she disagrees with, consumers have a right to pick and choose where they spend their money and why. It doesn't have to be a huge protest or even boycott. It can be something as simple as a choice. I choose not to spend my money at places that support causes and business practices I disagree with. My money, my choice. There are plenty of other options. If you don't like the product, you wouldn't buy it, right? So, how is not liking the message/business practices all that much different?

I go to great effort to buy animal products only from sources that treat their animals humanely. Cage free/range free, no hormones or antibiotics, etc. It's hard enough for me to reconcile in my mind that I am eating a once living being. It's a little easier - for me - to do so when at least I am relatively sure that animal lived free of pain and horrendous conditions while it was alive. It may have died to feed me but I don't like the idea of its life being full of suffering and then dying to feed me. I eat next to no fast food, ever, because I do not like their business practices and foods made of fillers, and not knowing the source of their meat products.

I won't support political or social groups that are in direct conflict with my own political and social values.

Choosing not to spend money at a store that supports a religious cause you disagree with is not different.

I don't really think it's that hard of a concept to grasp.

[fundiefan]

Don't know how that double posted, in different formats, but ignore this deleted post please.

[Austin]

I agree with fundiefan in that no one is under any obligation to support a business, for any reason they deem as important. It's not up to anyone else to determine what constitutes a reasonable issue. I don't support a lot of businesses for many and varied reasons, as it is completely up to me where I spend my money. I do not support any business that is overtly religious. Period. I feel that those companies use religion to put people at ease and then they often proceed to attempt to take advantage of them. I did not come to this conclusion out of the blue. I live in a highly religious area and after being ripped off (or nearly ripped off) by several of these "Christian" businesses, I decided that I was better off doing business with either people who didn't try to use religion as an advertising ploy or were just downright heathen.

Who is anyone to think they have the right to tell others where to spend their money?

[alba]

In the end the baker will be the one to lose out. She's losing a couple hundred dollars, someone else gets the business, and the couple has the comfort of working with someone who will be genuinely happy for them and supportive of their marriage. Actually, she probably loses more than just the cost of the cake as word will spread, though she'll probably quote that verse from the Bible that says Christians will be persecuted for their beliefs :roll:

So if the bag had a quote from Star Trek that means they're trying to make you believe in science fiction? Or a quote from a Buddhist writing means they are trying to convert you to Buddhism?

This is not to mention that the bag didn't even have the actual verse, just the reference to it which means a person doesn't even know what the actual verse is unless they either know the Bible verse already or they look it up.

It's not just an overtly Christian quotation, it's a quotation that has a long history of being used to proselytize. By putting 'John 3:16' on their bags, they're proselytizing. I don't think it really matters that the passage itself isn't on the bag, because I think many people would see it, become curious, and look it up. It would be less objectionable, for instance, if it was that passage about loving others as you love yourself, because that's a widely accepted 'good' thing to do, rather than an evangelising passage.

I won't buy a product from a company that puts references to evangelism on its bags because I don't want my money going towards evangelism. It's true that another company that doesn't put John 3:16 on its bags is also donating money to evangelist efforts, but the chances of Forever 21 doing it are more likely because its proven itself to be a company in favour of evangelism.

[BoomerLynn]

The really sad thing is if an atheist refused to serve her because she is a christian she would be crying persecution.

[ElphabaGalinda]

I recall a very similar case in Canada, which is why i know that would be illegal here. I understand the laws are different in the U.S. (do they also vary by state?), but I am glad that here, at least, what happened to those women won't happen to me.

[Guest Anonymous]

It just seems hypocritical to me to say that not doing business with a company based on religion is a right and good thing to do, but a woman in a cake-making business choosing to not do business with something she finds is against her beliefs is somehow bad or ignorant. They are exactly the same as far as I'm concerned.

I guess even though I am pretty conservative I must be more tolerant than most because I choose to do business with companies that have good prices, good customer service, and good products. If they sell a product I need and they treat me right and fairly, then I could care less if they choose to put a Bible verse, a Quran verse, or any other religious or non-religious quote on their packaging.