Baker refuses to do a wedding cake for a lesbian couple

[fundiefan]

It just seems hypocritical to me to say that not doing business with a company based on religion is a right and good thing to do, but a woman in a cake-making business choosing to not do business with something she finds is against her beliefs is somehow bad or ignorant. They are exactly the same as far as I'm concerned.

I guess even though I am pretty conservative I must be more tolerant than most because I choose to do business with companies that have good prices, good customer service, and good products. If they sell a product I need and they treat me right and fairly, then I could care less if they choose to put a Bible verse, a Quran verse, or any other religious or non-religious quote on their packaging.

Agreeing with someone or disagreeing with them is not bad or ignorant. I don't agree with the way the baker went about it, and I don't agree with her message. I agree that it is her right to make decisions based on her values. I, for one, did not say she was ignorant or bad. I disagree with her views, but she has the same right I do to act on them.

You make your choices based on your values and don't care about religious verses or quotes on bags or whatever. That's your right and your choice.

The only difference I see between the baker and myself is that she vocalized her views directly to potential customers. Again, her right, but she also had the choice to simply refuse their business and no reason would be necessary. I don't buy from places I disagree with and that is my only act. I don't tell them why, I don't make a point of making sure they know my views differ from theirs. I simply choose to spend my money elsewhere.

[Guest Anonymous]

Agreeing with someone or disagreeing with them is not bad or ignorant. I don't agree with the way the baker went about it, and I don't agree with her message. I agree that it is her right to make decisions based on her values. I, for one, did not say she was ignorant or bad. I disagree with her views, but she has the same right I do to act on them.

You make your choices based on your values and don't care about religious verses or quotes on bags or whatever. That's your right and your choice.

The only difference I see between the baker and myself is that she vocalized her views directly to potential customers. Again, her right, but she also had the choice to simply refuse their business and no reason would be necessary. I don't buy from places I disagree with and that is my only act. I don't tell them why, I don't make a point of making sure they know my views differ from theirs. I simply choose to spend my money elsewhere.

Well, since we don't know the whole story - only one side of it - we don't know why she vocalized her views to the customers. Perhaps she originally agreed to it and then changed her mind and then felt she owed them an explanation. If I were the customer I would prefer to know why rather than be told to come in for a cake tasting and then be told "sorry can't do it" with no explanation.

As far as dealing with businesses, if I choose to stop spending my money at a certain store (for whatever reason) I think it makes more sense to let them know the reason so they can be aware of it and have the opportunity to change if they so choose.

[alba]

It just seems hypocritical to me to say that not doing business with a company based on religion is a right and good thing to do, but a woman in a cake-making business choosing to not do business with something she finds is against her beliefs is somehow bad or ignorant. They are exactly the same as far as I'm concerned.

I guess even though I am pretty conservative I must be more tolerant than most because I choose to do business with companies that have good prices, good customer service, and good products. If they sell a product I need and they treat me right and fairly, then I could care less if they choose to put a Bible verse, a Quran verse, or any other religious or non-religious quote on their packaging.

I see what you're saying, but I don't think it's right to not do business with a company based on religion, and I will happily buy from overtly Christian companies as long as they're not evangelizing or making it apparent that they donate money to causes I find immoral (like the Domino's/pro-life example).

I tried to come up with a more suitable comparison in relation to the cake thing, but homosexuality isn't a choice while religious faith is. Let's say, then, for the sake of this argument, that the couple are heterosexual Muslims. I would think it wrong for her to refuse to sell to them simply on the basis of their religion, but acceptable if, in her dealings with them regarding the cake, they repeatedly tried to subtly convert her to Islam.

As I see it, the difference is that in the cake example the lesbian couple's sexual orientation affects no one but themselves, whereas companies that evangelize are pushing their beliefs on others. ETA: It's the distinction between a 'live and let live' attitude and a 'you should live like I/we do' one.

[fundiefan]

I guess it's a good thing that we all get to make our own choices based on our own values and motives. And, we can choose how we act on those choices.

I can disagree with people who are different than I am and they can disagree with me. It's no skin off my nose, really, unless and until the views of others impact me in some way. I 'speak' through my dollar. It's more important to me that my money not go where I don't want it to than to have my words expressed, or heard, by someone I don't agree with. I don't need to say everything I think. Most don't really care, when it comes to businesses and corporations. My power comes in my role as a consumer. I exercise it as I see fit.

[VodouDoll]

I wonder what happened if an Atheist denied cakes to all Christian/Muslim/Buddhist/religious couples.

In America? They'd go out of business.

[Rosa]

I recall a very similar case in Canada, which is why i know that would be illegal here. I understand the laws are different in the U.S. (do they also vary by state?), but I am glad that here, at least, what happened to those women won't happen to me.

If it happened at an actual bakery, it would be illegal some places here, too. Being open to the public means not discriminating when you serve the public, but gender/sexuality isn't protected everywhere, it's state by state and sometimes municipality or county level laws.

Independent contractors like this woman who bakes from her home (it sounds like) are in a different situation, since they have the freedom to choose who to work for, or not.

[latraviata]

It just seems hypocritical to me to say that not doing business with a company based on religion is a right and good thing to do, but a woman in a cake-making business choosing to not do business with something she finds is against her beliefs is somehow bad or ignorant. They are exactly the same as far as I'm concerned.

I guess even though I am pretty conservative I must be more tolerant than most because I choose to do business with companies that have good prices, good customer service, and good products. If they sell a product I need and they treat me right and fairly, then I could care less if they choose to put a Bible verse, a Quran verse, or any other religious or non-religious quote on their packaging.

My grandfather (1890-1979) was a lawyer and a very conservative liberal. Despatite his strong aversion of everything that slightly resembled communism, The (Dutch) communist party was one of his regular clientele. During the so called 'cold war' second half 20th century, the fifties and sixties.

According to my grandfather; everybody is entitled to legal assistence, they are friendly and decent people and they pay their bills in time.

[ElphabaGalinda]

If it happened at an actual bakery, it would be illegal some places here, too. Being open to the public means not discriminating when you serve the public, but gender/sexuality isn't protected everywhere, it's state by state and sometimes municipality or county level laws.

Independent contractors like this woman who bakes from her home (it sounds like) are in a different situation, since they have the freedom to choose who to work for, or not.

Oh okay, i was trying to look up the legality since i know it's illegal here , and the state by state (and then municipal/county) differences were kind of confusing me. Totally makes sense if it's different that she bakes from home...other people were giving examples that made it seem like it would be the same for actual businesses open to the public. Just wanted to make sure i understand what the law has to say. Even if it was legal in Iowa, i think what she did was horrible, but i'm not too familiar with American laws.

[Constance Vigilance]

There is currently a case going through the Court of Appeal relating to two hoteliers who were fined earlier this year for refusing to allow a gay couple to share a room at their hotel. Their appeal argument is that the judge in the original hearing did not fairly balance their right to practice their religion against the gay couple's right no to be discriminated against for their sexual orientation:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/no ... sfeed=true

No way they'll win. If you operate a business like this that offers services (in this case accommodation) you cannot refuse them to gay people because they are gay. The end, because it is the 21st century. If you don't want to have to have gay people in your hotel then you are at perfectly liberty not to run a hotel. The law doesn't care if you're a bigot because you're religious or because you're high or because a gay person once stole your only nice shoes.

[Guest Anonymous]

No way they'll win. If you operate a business like this that offers services (in this case accommodation) you cannot refuse them to gay people because they are gay. The end, because it is the 21st century. If you don't want to have to have gay people in your hotel then you are at perfectly liberty not to run a hotel. The law doesn't care if you're a bigot because you're religious or because you're high or because a gay person once stole your only nice shoes.

I don't think they should win, but with some of the 80yr old, conservative, High Court judges we have, it wouldn't completely surprise me if the battle had to be fought at a higher level before it is done. :roll:

[klavierspieler]

There are several Facebook groups about this topic now. I still (unfortunately) have a ton of fundies as friends (haven't figured out how to delete them yet without causing a huge ruckus) and they have been blowing up my news feed with requests to like Childress's support page and report the boycott page in an attempt to get FB to delete it. Some of the comments on both sites are interesting (and sad, and disturbing). Here are the links if anyone is interested (not broken because it's FB).

Support page: http://www.facebook.com/pages/Support-V ... 5127976533

Boycott page: http://www.facebook.com/BoycottCakeCottage