When QF/P mothers of many hit menopause

[AnnoDomini]

Ok, so QF/P teaches women that their highest purpose and only purpose is to make babies and be wives and raise children in an army for God, right? To take back dominion over the earth? And so some of these fundy women birth many, many babies. What do they do when they hit menopause? That must be some kind of personal identity crisis--they are suddenly unable to do 'God's plan for women'.

My mother has ten children and four miscarriages (named them and everything, mourned them like born children) and has now entered menopause. (She also has clinical depression but is on medication.) She loves babies as much as ever though. Recently a friend had a baby, and just touching the baby reduced my mother to tears, and later, talking about the experience had the same effect on her.

Made me think briefly of that 'collecting' mindset.

(I searched for a topic similar to this but couldn't find any--just pages and pages that seemed to be about Michelle.)

[pixydust]

Anno, I have thought about this, too. I would imagine it can cause some pretty severe depression. I've known non-fundie women who became depressed when they hit menopause, It's got to be worse when making those babies for Jesus is your only worth.

[Chrystal-J]

I knew a woman who had 9 kids and was addicted to pregnancy. She never had custody of any of her kids though (and didn't care--she had a drug problem). All she cared about was getting and being pregnant. Anyway, she began to go through menopause and it really freaked her out. She stopped doing drugs, started taking vitamins and watching what she ate so she could continue to get pregnant. It's weird cuz when I heard about Michelle Duggar's new exercise and diet regime, it reminded me of this woman.

[celestial]

I would imagine that in many families (those who have been QF from the start), by the time Mom is done having babies, the oldest kids are married and having kids of their own. So Mom becomes Grandma and helps out with the grandkids. Probably many older women in that situation have a hard time with it, but since they are supposed to be "joyful" at all times, they console themselves with the thought that they are fulfilling the whole Titus 2 thing, teaching the younger women what to do (ie, telling their daughters how to raise their own kids).

Have you ever asked your mom about how she feels about entering a new "season of life"?

[Kitty]

I think 'normal' QF women would accept it, and be satisfied with their new God-given roles as grandmothers. Or I would think that, anyway, if QF/P didn't seem to attract baby-collectors and pregnancy addicts.

It's got to be horrible when they don't menstruate anymore, and can't have children. Because everything they've been doing for the last 20-25 years for God is now gone, and it's a rough transition. They can no longer fulfill their purpose, and if they forced their older daughters to do all the work, the role is now reversed. Do you really think Michelle and Kelly would be happy looking after their grandkids once they hit menopause? Do you really think Michelle would happily watch the kids while Jana catches a much-needed nap, or make the kids lunch while Jinger sneaks away for a shower? For them, once they stop having kids, it won't be very long until the youngest ones are somewhat self-sufficient and able to dress themselves, bathe themselves, feed themselves, and for the most part behave themselves while nobody's looking. For the ones who do sweet fuck-all, this means that there's no more babies, and once they're handed off to the last "buddy," there's nothing for them to do at all. And boredom is very, very depressing.

Just more proof to me that fundies can't think about the future beyond about 5 minutes.

[AnnoDomini]

I haven't really spoken of it i, n a dedicated conversation, no. She is emotionally delicate, and while I try to support her in her difficult times, directly bringing up what is probably a painful subject seems like a bad idea.

[emmiedahl]

I wonder especially how it will affect Michelle Duggar. Her life for the last decade has involved immense amount of attention, income and recognition for having baby after baby. I think she was probably desperate to get pregnant again just because she is trying to keep her celebrity status.

Once she stops bearing children, the show will stop as well. People will stop recognizing her, TLC will stop sending her to exotic places and she will have to live within a budget. Moreover, there will come a point when she has to start doing housework again and perhaps even care for the younger children as they grow. She will be back where she was a decade ago, except that now she knows what it is like to be a princess.

Sorry to ramble. My point is that Michelle will not segue nicely into a helpful grandmother. She will not take menopause well.

[Kitty]

I wonder especially how it will affect Michelle Duggar. Her life for the last decade has involved immense amount of attention, income and recognition for having baby after baby. I think she was probably desperate to get pregnant again just because she is trying to keep her celebrity status.

Once she stops bearing children, the show will stop as well. People will stop recognizing her, TLC will stop sending her to exotic places and she will have to live within a budget. Moreover, there will come a point when she has to start doing housework again and perhaps even care for the younger children as they grow. She will be back where she was a decade ago, except that now she knows what it is like to be a princess.

Sorry to ramble. My point is that Michelle will not segue nicely into a helpful grandmother. She will not take menopause well.

I bet she'll basically pimp out Josiah once he's old enough to work at McDonald's or something, and live off his income. She's probably living off whatever money Joseph and JD are making. I also wouldn't be surprised if she starts a "ministry," once she realizes she can't rely on the J'slaves forever, and has to marry off everyone who's hit "marriageable age" by that time (so Joy on up, assuming "marriageable age" is 18). She'll probably force Jana or Jill to help her with this "ministry," despite them having lives and families of their own. She'll make Johannah, Jennifer, Jordyn, and Josie into the new J'slaves, only they'll have less to do than the original J'slaves. The howler boys will do all the yard work and slave away for JB and Josh.

Alternatively, "marriageable age" will be 21-23, so when Michelle is 51, JD, Jana, Jill, Jessa, and Jinger will be married off. Joseph will officially take JD's place, Josiah will take Joseph's, Joy will be the token J'slave over the howlers, Hannie will be in charge of cooking and the J'slave-in-training, Jennifer and Jordyn will do the laundry, and Josie will get to be Chief Howler over the new batch of howlers.

[Justme]

Teri Maxwell's got to be well into menopause. She's depressed. Oh wait, she's always been depressed. :whistle:

[Kitty]

Teri Maxwell's got to be well into menopause. She's depressed. Oh wait, she's always been depressed. :whistle:

The Maxwells never struck me as baby-collectors.

[Justme]

The Maxwells never struck me as baby-collectors.

That's because of his vasectomy. :lol:

[fundiefan]

As someone who is perimenopausal, I can say it sucks and there is some very real depression involved. Hormones whacked out and all that. I can't imagine how hard it would be if your entire identity and purpose were tied to making babies - that added depression on top of what hits because of hormones being out of balance has got to be dark and hard and painful and a million other things.

I'm not the least bit sad about 'the change'. I'm fine with it, other than the havoc it wreaks on my body and mind. It's a crazy making process and I can't wait until it's done and over. But the sadness that sometimes envelopes me, for what seems to be no reason but I always know somewhere in the darkest corner of my mind is from the hormones, is overwhelming. If there were any reason to be sad about what the changes mean - I can't imagine. I just can't.

[Kitten]

Depends on their reasons and experiences, I imagine. I think it's pretty clear that Michelle craves the attention and special care she receives when she's pregnant. And to be honest, I understand (even though I stopped at two). It IS fun to be the center of attention and have people always making fuss over you, and to get presents and have a ready-made excuse for not doing as much as everybody else.

If I had no brains, I, too, might have had multiple children. But i was able to make a rational decision that the health and well-being of the children I already had were more important than the risk I faced having more (there were medical issues). I put aside any desire I had to have more children to focus on being the best parent I could be to the ones who were here.

Michelle has put all her eggs (literally!!!! :lol: :lol: ) in one basket - that God has intended for her to do this and nothing else. Whether she did that from true faith, or a justification to indulge her desire to continually be pregnant, well, make up your own mind.

I suspect she is headed for a huge challenge when the pregnancies stop. She already has little interest in her own children once they become toddlers - I can't see her being satisfied with or particularly interested in grandchildren. Besides, that's too much like what she had to do back when her oldest kids were all little. She's definitely not interested in childcare or baby sitting.

My guess? She will be majorly depressed, and she will be extremely jealous of Anna (and any others who might get married and start popping). Doubt the TV cameras will be around then (Please, God, are you listening??!!), but I would bet that "keeping sweet" will be pretty darn hard. :D

And I suspect it will be the same for those fundy women who have the same addiction/narcissism that Michelle and Kelly B. seem to have. Others, particularly those who are truly involved in all stages of their children's care, will be more than glad to sit back and rock the grandbabies for a change.

[Chrystal-J]

Someone posted the Today Show link with Michelle explaining how "sad" (read horrible) it would be for her to realize she may never have anymore children. And when she talks about being pregnant now, she's got that excited look a gambler has when they think they're about to roll 7's.

[Deesire]

Of course, this all assumes JChelle *lives* to see menopause....

[pixydust]

My guess? She will be majorly depressed, and she will be extremely jealous of Anna (and any others who might get married and start popping).

I just hope she isn't mean to them. I could see her being evil to her pregnant daughters/in-law once she can't get knocked up anymore...but I also picture her sobbing in bed every month when she gets her period.

[celestial]

Of course, this all assumes JChelle *lives* to see menopause....

Yeah, that's the other thing. After so many years of such extensive wear and tear on the body, it's more than likely that more than a handful of these women don't have a bunch of non-childbearing years to figure out what to do with. (Let it be said that I do not wish this on anyone, JChelle included.)

[MrsKay]

I can picture a serious mental breakdown in Michelle's future. I'll admit that I'm kind of worried about myself in this area; I had my first baby at 16, and while I'm not QF, I've suffered from painful fertility issues and multiple miscarriages pretty much nonstop since then. I feel like my whole life has revolved around my cycle and pregnancy status. BabyKay is still nursing and I don't have my periods back yet, other than the odd breakthrough spotting, but I'm still really nervous. I don't have a lot of time to space them out, once my cycles resume, but I want to be sure the timing is as good as it can be... My circumstances are a lot different than a QF mother, but I have to say, my life is probably just as affected by fertility and pregnancy.

I hope that my kids are sensitive to it, when I start going through menopause; I think it's nice that the OP is trying to be understanding of her mother's emotions, even if she hasn't figured out what to do yet. Luckily, unlike QF mothers, there IS more in my life than just reproducing, so while I imagine I'll have a hard time, I know there will be other things to focus on. But Michelle, by the manic, crazed look of glee on her face during the announcement... that woman is in for some serious issues once the big M hits.

[Confused_by_religion]

Wouldn't even the most devout quiverful mother breathe a sigh of relief when she hits menopause? I mean, yes, babies are cute, giving birth is exhilarating and so on and so forth, but after 14 or 15 times the enthusiasm must wane. How often can it be fun to change dirty diapers.

Apart from that, menopause was obviously part of god's plan for women, or they wouldn'T get it. So it means, you've fulfilled god's plan for younger women (get pregnant and get pregnant and get pregnant) and can now move on to god's plan for older women (help your children as they get pregnant and get pregnant and get pregnant).

Hypothetically speaking, of course, if you believe in a micromanaging sort of god with control issues.

[Sola]

I wonder especially how it will affect Michelle Duggar. Her life for the last decade has involved immense amount of attention, income and recognition for having baby after baby. I think she was probably desperate to get pregnant again just because she is trying to keep her celebrity status.

Once she stops bearing children, the show will stop as well. People will stop recognizing her, TLC will stop sending her to exotic places and she will have to live within a budget. Moreover, there will come a point when she has to start doing housework again and perhaps even care for the younger children as they grow. She will be back where she was a decade ago, except that now she knows what it is like to be a princess.

Sorry to ramble. My point is that Michelle will not segue nicely into a helpful grandmother. She will not take menopause well.

Yes this^

I don't think it is any surprise that J'Chelle has gone 2 years between Josie and this new pregnancy. I think it was deliberate. I wouldn't at all be surprised if she had been told she had Maternal Depletion Syndrome and she has taken these two years to get herself in better shape to get pregnant and carry as close to term as she can. She's already said she has tried to increase her fitness and diet which will go a long way in helping her maintain a pregnancy. I don't buy the 'leaving it up to god' in the slightest. Jimboob and J'Chelle have used contraception of some sort - even if only NFP - these last two years. J'Chelle couldn't breast feed Josie so her fertility would have come back much earlier than it has in previous pregnancies. I'd like to bet that she has had regular blood tests to check that she isn't peri-menopausal too.

I can't see her being that involved with her grandkids either. J'Chelle, despite having 19 kids is NOT maternal. She likes being pregnant, she likes giving birth and having a newborn, but she sure as hell isn't maternal. I think that within 5 years she is going to come back down to earth with one hell of a bump. Her fertility will be ended, her older girls will start getting married at some point, she is too estranged from all her kids to that involved in their married lives, despite her living in the same house as them, the cameras will go away and the money will slow.

I feel sorry for Joy the most. Once the older girls have got married, she will still be at home for a few years due to the age gap between her and her older sisters. With Joy being in the middle of a sea of boys who is she going to confide in? She will be the one caring for the howler monkeys because even though Johanna and Jennifer will be older, they will all be too busy running that house and taking care of Josie and this new JimboobSpawn. I really hope that Joy breaks free, she has such a good spirit that will be destroyed if she remains drinking the Koolaid. Justin pings my gaydar too so I hope he breaks free and gets to live the life HE wants to live.

[Dinorah]

I've always wondered what happens in a even worse situation ie if a woman finds out she or her husband, are sterile. Sure, there's adoption but that can be complicated and I have the impression isn't really considered the same by fundies.

[PBrooke]

I just hope she isn't mean to them. I could see her being evil to her pregnant daughters/in-law once she can't get knocked up anymore...but I also picture her sobbing in bed every month when she gets her period.

I kind of want JD to marry someone like Erin Bates - a total prima Donna who won't take crap from her mother-in-law. What a battle that would be.

I basically only read the smorton blogs nowadays, and I would wager that most of those mothers are close to menopause - none of the older generation has had a baby in years. The Sanders mom seems the most 'typical' in terms of grandparenting - always shown holding her grandkids and they frequently take care of LL's kids. The Mortons really emphasize that whole generational, 200 year business - Addie frequently mentions the whole "x amount of grandkids in x years!" thing. I don't know how one-on-one they actually are as grandparents, though they obviously live close to a bunch of them - I kind of envision them just sitting on rocking chairs, smug about the sheer numbers.

And then there's the Smiths. I get the biggest vibe that the Smith mom most values herself through being a "mother" and isn't ready to pass the torch to her kids and in-laws - hence all the adoptions.

[fundifugee]

My grandmother, married to a fundie street preacher, quiverfullers before it had a name, breathed a sigh of relief when she thought she hit menopause at age 52. Most of her friends had hit the change a years ago. Then, her belly started growing, and guess what? She was "blessed" with another one!

I am keeping my IUD until well into my 50s, I tell you.

[fundiefan]

My grandmother, married to a fundie street preacher, quiverfullers before it had a name, breathed a sigh of relief when she thought she hit menopause at age 52. Most of her friends had hit the change a years ago. Then, her belly started growing, and guess what? She was "blessed" with another one!

I am keeping my IUD until well into my 50s, I tell you.

Ditto. Until enough time has passed and enough years of advanced fertility age have been surpassed, I am keeping that sucker. My aunt went off birth control at 47 because she had gone over a year without a period and figured she was done. Six months later, my cousin was on his way. While everyone loves him, of course, and are glad he is here, he was not planned, expected, anticipated or even wanted (Before he was on his way; meaning, my aunt and uncle were so done with raising kids and didn't want to do it again. Their youngest was in high school and they were eagerly anticipating the years ahead without children. Of course they wanted him after knowing he was coming).

[Sola]

My MiL was still having regular periods at 59! So I suppose she could have still been fertile.

My great-grandmother had 17 kids, her last one at the age of 50. NOthing fundie about them though, they just kept having kids. Sadly she died 2 years after having her last one, at the age of 52. Apparently she had breast cancer.