KnightInShiningAmore - how did it end?

[Beeks]

I read his thread up to the 50s or so but lost track and don't want to wade back through. Did he officially flounce? Is he still in there answering questions? Recap, anyone?

[emmiedahl]

He flounced. The questions got too hard.

[FundiesInMyFamily]

Over the last week or so, he seems to have disappeared, but will reappear when someone comments about him flouncing, usually to say he's digesting the conversation and when he's less distracted he'll get back to answering earlier questions.

He's probably still reading here and just doesn't have the fortitude to keep up with the conversation

[formergothardite]

I think he is hoping that thread will fade and we will all forget about him and all the questions he didn't answer.

[Beeks]

Interesting, thank you!

[Brainsample]

Later in the game, maybe ten days ago, perhaps, he said that he intended to answer all of the questions, but decided to wait until we'd "settled down" and were not so critical/sarcastic with him. IMO, that was not a good PR move on his part. It sounded demeaning and condescending to me, and then I think he only posted three more times, perhaps. Not much more than that.

A few days ago, he sent me a PM in response to something I'd posted on the thread, and I encouraged him to post it directly online. He was concerned that his more verbal critics would see it as BS, but he relented and posted his initial PM to me when I nudged him online.

It is my impression that he's quite young (adult), and that he's processing the hypocrisy and inconsistencies that he sees but doesn't entirely want to let go of the things that he likes about the group. That is pretty normal in the transition that most people have, and it's more difficult when you were raised in a group. As I did, I'm sure that he has relationships and contacts within the group that he doesn't want to abandon. He does still idealize Doug strongly, from all that I've read. I find that hard to take, and I didn't cut him any slack because my own experience and knowledge is quite different from his perspective.

I take it that he's still reading here, and as I've said of others who are questioning their beliefs, I support his willingness to think about the system and consider it's flaws along with the things he defends about it. He was very receptive to reading and viewing more resources about manipulation, social pressure, and authoritarian control. Whether he views them or not is up to him, but he at least knows what I thought would be good tools to help him.

In one of his PMs, he did say that he intended to answer all of the questions put to him as he was available and able.

I guess some people have thought that my support of his efforts to look soberly at the system were seen as being too soft and accepting of him, or catering to him. I'm not softening up on patriarchy by any means, but I do like to encourage those who are questioning their beliefs about these types of systems, and it appears to me that this is exactly what he's doing. He seems to be in the midst of some sort of transition in this sense, in the thick of thinking things through. I encourage everyone to do that.

I hope we see him back here one day, posting the whole story of his exodus.

[clibbyjo]

Meh,I lost interest in him. NEXT....

[Daenerys]

To be honest, we were never going to stop asking him questions, so I was expecting him to flounce. Glad it didn't turn into a slanging match, though. At least we have one fundy who doesn't think we're a bunch of ebil femenizt morons.

[Guest Anonymous]

To be honest, we were never going to stop asking him questions, so I was expecting him to flounce. Glad it didn't turn into a slanging match, though. At least we have one fundy who doesn't think we're a bunch of ebil femenizt morons.

I think that's exactly what KISA thinks of us. Many of his posts dripped with "you're wrong and I'm better than you" and it got worse the longer he went on.

[Guest Anonymous]

I think that's exactly what KISA thinks of us. Many of his posts dripped with "you're wrong and I'm better than you" and it got worse the longer he went on.

I was about to post exactly the same sentiment as Lissar.

I think he came here on a mission and the public face of the mission went badly wrong for him. My guess is that he is still around, sending private messages to those who will engage with him on his own terms.

[formergothardite]

Exactly and anyone who won't engage him in a manner he deems nice enough he just says they are SO MEAN!!!!!!!

[Daenerys]

Fair enough, I did drop out pretty early in the thread, after I gathered all that he could dish up on the Duggars.

[lovefromgirl]

Over the last week or so, he seems to have disappeared, but will reappear when someone comments about him flouncing, usually to say he's digesting the conversation and when he's less distracted he'll get back to answering earlier questions.

He's probably still reading here and just doesn't have the fortitude to keep up with the conversation

Oh? You mean he's housebound and part-time bedbound, too?

...not him? Poor widdle snowflake.

[SheWoreLemon]

From reading his posts here, I think he's a good person who is struggling with the cognitive dissonance of starting to think that maybe not everything he learned growing up is right. That's a very hard and scary thing to do.

I hope that for now he comes back and tells us more gossip! But I also think that at this point, he may not know enough/have it clear enough/figured out enough in his own head to tell us what he thinks about patriarchy and Doug.

When I was struggling with Christianity, it meant that I knew I was going to have to face the fact that I had to admit that I was extremely angry at my Dad for abandoning and betraying me by listening to our pastor over me--but my Dad was my hero and I loved my Dad like crazy.

So how can my dad be my hero and my betrayer at the same time? It made a huge distance between us for years. And it was worse because my dad couldn't understand why I was angry at him and I was burying why I was angry at him (not dealing with it). And all the time Dad was trying to get me to come back to Christianity.

Ok, I think I've gone way afield. What I'm trying to say is that it sounds like AKnight grew up in VisionForum, so if he is questioning it--especially after reading what Evie Teale had to say--he has to really change his world views on Doug as well as his parents.

[JesusFightClub]

I was about to post exactly the same sentiment as Lissar.

I think he came here on a mission and the public face of the mission went badly wrong for him. My guess is that he is still around, sending private messages to those who will engage with him on his own terms.

Yes this.

I know I get boring saying State for what these guys are. I am not clever with words. What I mean is someone who tricks their way into a group, appearing like "I just want to help". With us politically it would be "I totally agree with you and want to help". With Knight in FJ it was "You poor misguided women are lost, but I can help answering questions". The uniting factor is the ulterior motive. There is one, and it is not benign to the group.

Because I am stupid at words I asked two comrades how to say State without saying it. The first said "Ulterior motives." The second said "Infiltrator". I told them about Knight, showed the messages, and they agreed that is what he was.

We can spot 'em. Mark Dreher isn't one. Knight was.

[Deleted03]

Thanks for the update, I admit to skiming the thread for only his posts. I don't care about his religious opinion, but glad to see that some have managed one on one conversation plugging interesting links for some food for thoughts!

[pomology]

JFC, I don't think you get boring saying State at all. It's a very interesting concept that I (and I'm guessing many others) don't know anything about and I think it describes KISA very well.

[MamaJunebug]

brainsample wrote:

I guess some people have thought that my support of his efforts to look soberly at the system were seen as being too soft and accepting of him, or catering to him. I'm not softening up on patriarchy by any means, but I do like to encourage those who are questioning their beliefs about these types of systems, and it appears to me that this is exactly what he's doing. He seems to be in the midst of some sort of transition in this sense, in the thick of thinking things through. I encourage everyone to do that.

I'm with her.

Think about it: If his identity's ever revealed, several people in his world will have to decide whether to forgive him or confront him. That world isn't that large, and the ripple effects could damage his reputation for a long time, if he isn't seriously re-thinking all he's been taught all his young years.

Yes, he came across in one or two or a dozen posts with the predictable attitude of the young person who thus far has been sure that his way is superior. But if we presume that he is young, then that's to be expected. If he's really Doug or Be-all or Sproul-Junior messing with us - another story entirely.

But again, and redundantly, I think brainsample's spot-on in her analysis and approach.

MHO & nobody's else's. ;)

PS: What's "State"???? As enjoyable as KISA's insider info was, I haven't kept up with this thread very closely since he stopped dishin'. ThxIA!

[sea_gale]

He was given box sets of Grey's Anatomy and Desperate Housewives for his birthday and has some catching up to do. Don't worry, he'll come back once we stop being such fabulous nasty bitches.

[FlorenceHamilton]

Do you think that these "friendly fundies" get jollies from pissing us off and then proving how heinous we are are we tell them off with colorfaul language? Does it help them justify their beliefs?

Does it ever occur to them that being mean and judgemental with a smile is still mean and judgemental? Maybe that is why so many of us find Michael Pearl so reprehensible. No bad words, not outward display of anger. Just brutal, methodical breaking of the will of another (smaller, dependent) human being until the poor thing has no will of its own. Isn't that the exact same position of a female, not only for childhood, but for a lifetime? First under her father, and then under her headship, her only role is to serve her master. Some masters are more interested in the personhood of a woman and others not so much. That is the luck of the draw. But ultimately, a female human is to turn over her will to her headship. A woman has no voice unless a superior male commands/allows her to speak. She makes no decisions unless her headship gives her leave to do so. She has no role in the marital home but to clean, to birth babies and to keep the babies out if the headship's way unless he calls for them. Even in homeschooling, it is not really the mother who school the children. It is a father who presses upon her the task of schooling the children in the way he sees fit. If she teaches them things that are not approved by the headship, there is chastizement of the adult female as well as the children.

THIS is why I get angry. No matter how you slicw it, this system is only "good" for the female adult, if the female adult has a headship whose heart deems it a priority to make it so. If the headship does not have such a empathetic heart who wants to consider the input of the lesser female partner (And an empathetic heart is not really considered very manly), then her fellings, thoughts, priorities, desires, etc have no value. The only value as a human being that a female adult has in the system of Patriarchy is the value that the Patriarch chooses to give her and only for the period of time that he chooses to do so.

When we fight back, that makes us mean?

[JesusFightClub]

Pomology, MJB, thanks and I will try to explain.

Not giving out secrets...sometimes people attempt to get into lefty groups. An example can be seen in Michael Moore's film where "Peace Fresno" end up with a copper as a member.

It is...not unknown. So people might say "that person is State". It means "he has come here with bad intentions, there is a controlling body that makes him do stuff, and he does not care about you one bit. In fact talking to him at all is a bad plan."

A lot of fundies who have shown up here fit that pattern.

[Hane]

Eh, I'm just waiting for him to answer my simple little question: "How would patriarchy benefit ME?" Me being a self-supporting single grandmother with a brain, a career, a paid-off home of her own, and a well-funded retirement plan. (As I've said many times here, no man has ever been able to support me as well as I've supported myself.)

And, if he can't state me any concrete benefits, there's this: What's to stop young feminists from becoming educated, fulfilled, self-supporting women who--horrors--may even choose to become mothers without a "headship"?

[MamaJunebug]

Pomology, MJB, thanks and I will try to explain.

Not giving out secrets...sometimes people attempt to get into lefty groups. An example can be seen in Michael Moore's film where "Peace Fresno" end up with a copper as a member.

It is...not unknown. So people might say "that person is State". It means "he has come here with bad intentions, there is a controlling body that makes him do stuff, and he does not care about you one bit. In fact talking to him at all is a bad plan."

A lot of fundies who have shown up here fit that pattern.

Ah! Of course, thanks! I shall use it with certain Junior JBs whwhen they are trying to butter up the ole mammaw.

But I'm loving the irony on another level. Of all the worries these folks have about "statism," to be called "State" must really zing! :D

~~~~~~~~~~~~~

:clap: at Hane, meanwhile. Wonderfully stated, er, wonderfully written!!!! ;)

[Kaylee]

Not giving out secrets...sometimes people attempt to get into lefty groups. An example can be seen in Michael Moore's film where "Peace Fresno" end up with a copper as a member.

Exactly. It's usually to keep tabs on the group, but the US has had a longstanding and particularly nasty program where they've infiltrated groups not only to collect intelligence, but also to influence them and often to provoke members into violence to stir up outrage and get arrest warrants.

This is called COINTELPRO, and was really active during the Civil Rights Era - they kept tabs on Martin Luther King, infiltrated groups like the Black Panthers, and also the KKK and similar groups, and there's some evidence that a lot of the violence on both sides, including several murders, was provoked and sometimes committed by these State (FBI in this case) agents.

There's not doubt in my mind that it still goes on today - we ran into it a lot with the more extremist right wing and racist groups, but a friend of mine says they also infiltrate a lot of the animal rights groups, things like Occupy wall street, and any anti-racist, socialist, or peace groups that they see as a threat (including people like "Food Not Bombs" which is a pretty awesome anti-hunger group, but seen as a threat because they are politically active and tend to have members involved in other left-wing causes).

[deelaem]

Exactly. It's usually to keep tabs on the group, but the US has had a longstanding and particularly nasty program where they've infiltrated groups not only to collect intelligence, but also to influence them and often to provoke members into violence to stir up outrage and get arrest warrants.

This is called COINTELPRO, and was really active during the Civil Rights Era - they kept tabs on Martin Luther King, infiltrated groups like the Black Panthers, and also the KKK and similar groups, and there's some evidence that a lot of the violence on both sides, including several murders, was provoked and sometimes committed by these State (FBI in this case) agents.

There's not doubt in my mind that it still goes on today - we ran into it a lot with the more extremist right wing and racist groups, but a friend of mine says they also infiltrate a lot of the animal rights groups, things like Occupy wall street, and any anti-racist, socialist, or peace groups that they see as a threat (including people like "Food Not Bombs" which is a pretty awesome anti-hunger group, but seen as a threat because they are politically active and tend to have members involved in other left-wing causes).

They have infiltrated in American Indian Affairs, too, especially back in the 70's. I'm just about positive they had a lot to do with the whole Leonard Peltier incident.