Do you approve of fundy-lite?

[annalena]

Just curious. I have a friend who is fundy-lite and I have no real issues with her lifestyle. We still can talk about everything (she was very worldly before). What about you guys?

[StarrieEyedKat]

Honestly, as long as someone isn't trying to push their beliefs onto me (or trying to take away people's rights) then I have no problem with them.

People want to have gazillions of kids cause god told them to? As long as they're properly caring for them and not actively seeking to remove the rights or choices of others, then go right ahead and do your thing. It's the Judgey McJudgersons and the ones that are trying to do away with BC/abortion/equal rights/insert other that I feel stabby towards. (ETA - and the ones abusing their kids, obviously.)

[fundiefan]

I have no problem with anyone who lives their lives as they choose, while respecting that other people have the right to do the same. Your god isn't mine and I won't allow you to force feed me your beliefs. I also won't sit by and allow you to vilify me and my life based on your values. You are not me, period.

I have a few friends who are probably fundie-lite. They know I do not believe as they do. I don't talk negatively about their god to them and they don't try to sell me on him. We get along great and have long lasting, mutually beneficial friendships.

What one believes is none of my business and there is no room for me to 'approve' or disapprove. That's a fundie concept - it implies something is wrong, because it goes against my values.

What I don't approve of is assholes like Dougie and Scott Brown and the Botkins and any and everyone else who wants the government to be religiously based, and wants me to live like they do. Fuck all of them.

[Rachel333]

I'm friends with plenty of fundies-lite (I like that better than "fundie-lites"), and pretty much all of my family would fall in that category, but being fundie-lite typically means being anti-abortion, anti-gay, etc, and I certainly have a problem with that. I mean, most want anti-gay and anti-women laws in place. It would be fine if they were content to just not get gay married, but they want to make sure no one can.

[annalena]

I think the most important part to me is it really bothers me when people force their opinions onto other, inculding their children.

What I really like about my friend and her friends- I think almost all of them want to be homemakers when they get married (she is by now), but that doesn't stop them from getting a decent education and working real jobs before. So they have some kind of safety net. Also, they drive, meet friends on their own, do all kinds of things independently.

[dramallama]

...being fundie-lite typically means being anti-abortion, anti-gay, etc, and I certainly have a problem with that. I mean, most want anti-gay and anti-women laws in place. It would be fine if they were content to just not get gay married, but they want to make sure no one can.

[LIzzieB]

I have a couple of fundie-lite friends through my music group. They had very sheltered upbringings, one was homeschooled until 10th grade then went to public school, and the other went to a tiny Christian school that had "biblically-based" curriculum.

We don't get a lot of time to chat at rehearsal, so conversation never really turns to religion. Both post links from time to time that are anti-abortion or for "saving the institution of marriage". Neither have ever tried to proselytise me or anyone else in the group. We have one openly gay member, a guy in his late teens, who was really excited to tell us all about his latest big date. To their credit, neither have ever said anything about this.

Like Rachel333, I have problems with what they might believe and sometimes find it hard to reconcile with the generous, genuinely friendly individuals I know. I just have to accept the fact that we have to agree to disagree.

[QAF_Rocks]

I'm not sure they would care if I approve or disapprove of them. People have the right to believe what they want. It doesn't mean that I have to like or respect their belief system. I disagree with everything a fundie-lite stands for, but it's their life, not mine. As long as they don't try to indoctrinate my children or insert their religious beliefs into our nation's laws, then I'm live and let live. If they ask me, I'll tell them that I think what they believe is false and harmful. If they don't ask me, I'm happy to leave well enough alone.

[Patsy]

It's not a question of approval, but it sure does annoy me. I have friends who... well, they're fundie lite in my eyes, but I think America's view of what 'fundie' is has shifted in the last ten years, and then maybe a bit further because this board is talking about people like the Duggars and the Maxwells (some of the fundie-lites featured here are just fundie, in my eyes. If your litmus test is their amount of mixing in the world, I get the distinction, but otherwise a lot of them are just plain fundie to me). So perhaps by your standards you'd consider them fundie lite lite or something :D They're my friends. I disagree with them on some things but it really isn't an issue, though it does actually irritate me that such intelligent people would willingly force themselves to believe creationist bullshit.

The wave of Americans pushing their politics further and further to the right, tying Republicanism in with Christianity and degrading both (probably moving out of it now but it's still there!), voting against gay rights, positively relishing in their ignorance, and acting like assholes? All of that is crap. And no, not every 'fundy-lite' does all or even any of these, but those are things a lot do, and they certainly are things I dislike.

Apart from our wackaloonies (see: Catch the Fire, Exclusive Brethren), the only fundies I really have any notice for in Australia are the assholes who want to start mixing with politics too (see: Family First, Abbott's pro-life-y goodness, Wendy Francis the hideous troll baby).

edit because lol whups left and right are different things

[Guest Anonymous]

I feel a though my relationships with former friends who are Christian have become superficial over the years because there is so very much that we no longer discuss so as to overlook our differences. In the main, my feelings towards them have changed and most of the fun times now are reminiscing over stuff we did when we were younger.

When we got to the stage in life when children came on the scene, it became harder to overlook the differences. My friends don't want their kids to know that mummy's friend doesn't believe in God and conversations get closed down to that end. When the topic of gay friends comes up, I cringe inwardly and want to scream outwardly whenever my friend pulls 'that face' or changes the subject.

We are still friendly, but we are not close any more.

[margiebargie]

I disapprove of religion in general. I just think it's better and healthier to deal with reality on it's own terms.

Let's take a look at Catholics, the largest denomination in the us. They've got the horrible child abuse scandal. They are grudgingly and reluctantly making amends. They insist on interfering with womens reproductive rights. They oppose gay marriage, which I find incredibly ironic. I know people will argue that your typical catholic does not agree with these things, but they are still affiliated with the church. As someone pointed out on the "Ask Me Anything" thread your affiliations say a lot about you.

The second largest denomination are the southern baptists. They also have child abuse issues. But unlike the Catholic church they refuse to keep records. That way they can maintain plausible deniability. This is a good legal strategy, but it is unethical and shows how little they actually care about protecting children. They oppose reproductive rights and gay marriage, thereby interfering in the lives of others.

Even Jim Wallis who represents liberal Christianity in the media has been dodgy about gay rights.

Can I get along with people who hold these odious views? Yes. I can because I must. Do I approve? Hell no.

[JesusFightClub]

Nope. But a fundy lite type wouldn't approve of me either.

If she is happy living that way and doesn't try to persuade others, no forcible reindoctrination. Yet. ;)

[BravaAmica]

Just curious. I have a friend who is fundy-lite and I have no real issues with her lifestyle. We still can talk about everything (she was very worldly before). What about you guys?

What is key for me is if a fundy or fundy-lite person will respect others' beliefs and way of life and not try and homogenize everything because it's "biblical." And those fundys are few and far between- every fundy or fundy-lite I've known has wanted to/tried to inflict their beliefs on me which did not go down well.

[Austin]

I feel a though my relationships with former friends who are Christian have become superficial over the years because there is so very much that we no longer discuss so as to overlook our differences. In the main, my feelings towards them have changed and most of the fun times now are reminiscing over stuff we did when we were younger.

When we got to the stage in life when children came on the scene, it became harder to overlook the differences. My friends don't want their kids to know that mummy's friend doesn't believe in God and conversations get closed down to that end. When the topic of gay friends comes up, I cringe inwardly and want to scream outwardly whenever my friend pulls 'that face' or changes the subject.

We are still friendly, but we are not close any more.

This is my experience, as well. My friends were mostly (with a few exceptions I'm very thankful for now) centered around church and church life, and there certainly is distance there now. As anniec said, you can only go so deep with them before you bump up against something that they're going to have a problem with, so the conversation tends to stay light and be focused on what everybody's kids are doing, will the city put in the new dog park, stuff like that. In their minds, I've turned my back on what they believe (which I suppose I have) so they are equally cautious with me. And those are just the ones that didn't cut me off right away.

As far as approving or disapproving, I don't know if that's a relevant question in my case. It's not a belief system that my values align with, so that's about all there is to say. Certainly, people should believe whatever they want and it's not my place to opine whether that's good or bad or indifferent. As long as they don't pressure their kids into it, I don't have any problem with it. However, they usually do, which I'm bumping up against recently and it's making me angry.

[Rosa]

As my son gets older and more of my Christian friends and relatives have kids, it's gotten harder and harder to coexist, because they want to lie to their kids and have me back them up on it - like telling the kids my partner and I are married, because it's uncomfortable for them to have conversations about how it's possible to love someone and have a baby with them and not marry them. Or they say things around my kid ("well just look at how they let those little girls dress, no wonder the oldest is out working North Avenue..." or "As soon as those people moved in the schools started going to hell..." "There's no dog meat in there, is there?") that I just have to counter, because we are anti-racist and anti-sexist parents. I could shut up and deal before, in the interests of family peace, but I just will not lie to little kids (I'm not talking about belief things like the Tooth Fairy or angels, I'm talking about simple statements of fact like "Partner and I are not married" and "lesbians can have babies, our friends X & Y have two little boys").

And I don't see why they consider it OK to say things like that around MY kid, or decide that the racist or violent scenes in Disney movies are no big deal and they can screen them without checking with us when they freak the fuck out about simple statements like "We don't go to church because we aren't Christian" or "People can have babies without being married".

[Austin]

As my son gets older and more of my Christian friends and relatives have kids, it's gotten harder and harder to coexist, because they want to lie to their kids and have me back them up on it - like telling the kids my partner and I are married, because it's uncomfortable for them to have conversations about how it's possible to love someone and have a baby with them and not marry them. Or they say things around my kid ("well just look at how they let those little girls dress, no wonder the oldest is out working North Avenue..." or "As soon as those people moved in the schools started going to hell..." "There's no dog meat in there, is there?") that I just have to counter, because we are anti-racist and anti-sexist parents. I could shut up and deal before, in the interests of family peace, but I just will not lie to little kids (I'm not talking about belief things like the Tooth Fairy or angels, I'm talking about simple statements of fact like "Partner and I are not married" and "lesbians can have babies, our friends X & Y have two little boys").

And I don't see why they consider it OK to say things like that around MY kid, or decide that the racist or violent scenes in Disney movies are no big deal and they can screen them without checking with us when they freak the fuck out about simple statements like "We don't go to church because we aren't Christian" or "People can have babies without being married".

In that same vein, I have found that saying anything other than the party line in front of fundie-lites' kids is "shoving it down their throats". I want to say, "Hello! Gay people do exist!" or "Dinosaurs did exist!" . But none of that matters because they don't "believe in that".

But as you say, they feel they can say anything they want and because in their minds, they are on the right side of things, it's all okay. Makes me want to barf.

[1004srs]

"Let's take a look at Catholics, the largest denomination in the us. They've got the horrible child abuse scandal. They are grudgingly and reluctantly making amends. They insist on interfering with womens reproductive rights. They oppose gay marriage, which I find incredibly ironic. I know people will argue that your typical catholic does not agree with these things, but they are still affiliated with the church. As someone pointed out on the "Ask Me Anything" thread your affiliations say a lot about you."

I disagree with this. Really, most Catholics don't agree with a lot of those things. THey like the Catholic religion because of the ceremony and the feeling of belonging you get from being Catholic.

If you say that you can tell a lot by who people are affiilated with - why doesn't anyone here criticize The President for being part of Chicago’s Trinity United Church Of Christ parish?

[dormouse]

I have a fundie-lite-lite friend, former fundie, I mentionned her in the "Why do you snark" thread. I just avoid the subjects of politics or religion when we talk, because she is still very conservative socially and politically.

[lilwriter85]

I have know several fundies lite and I'm ok with them. They aren't extreme like fundies are in pushing their beliefs on others. I avoid talking to them about certain things, but overall the fundies lite that I know are a bit laid back and not uptight on certain things. They are cool with certain pop culture things, sports, women working and other things that fundies aren't ok with.

[celestial]

[FemaleScientist]

While I approve of anyone's lifestyle, that doesn't mean I have to interact with them or be friends with them. A fundie to me is a fundie, and I don't see things in terms of fundie and fundie-lite, they're all conservative Christians to me. I see people in terms of liberal and conservative Christians on a spectrum, some more towards the liberal or conservative (fundie) sides. The more liberal a Christian is, the more likely I'll interact with them and befriend them. My family are liberal Christians, with some more fundie than others, but most of my friends are either non-believers, liberal Christians, or adhere to a different belief all together. I don't think a fundie-lite person would even want to interact with me.

I'm a liberal agnostic/atheist who believes firmly that gays should be able to marry, women should have the freedom to work and go wherever they want, wear whatever they want, and a woman should have access and right to birth control. Therefore, I doubt I'll even get along with a fundie-lite person. Plus, I'm a scientist... I think that's a reason fundies tend to avoid me in general.

I'm sorry if my statement offended anyone here who's fundie-lite, but that's how I feel.

[margiebargie]

"Let's take a look at Catholics, the largest denomination in the us. They've got the horrible child abuse scandal. They are grudgingly and reluctantly making amends. They insist on interfering with womens reproductive rights. They oppose gay marriage, which I find incredibly ironic. I know people will argue that your typical catholic does not agree with these things, but they are still affiliated with the church. As someone pointed out on the "Ask Me Anything" thread your affiliations say a lot about you."

I disagree with this. Really, most Catholics don't agree with a lot of those things. THey like the Catholic religion because of the ceremony and the feeling of belonging you get from being Catholic.

If you say that you can tell a lot by who people are affiilated with - why doesn't anyone here criticize The President for being part of Chicago’s Trinity United Church Of Christ parish?

Liking ceremony is not a good enough reason for me to support and participate in an organization that pushes values I oppose. I just wouldn't do that and I don't understand people who do. Where's their integrity? Why wouldn't they just attend a church that's more in line with their own values?

I don't know anything about the presidents church so can't comment on that one way or the other.

[HowRude]

I don't know where I fall I think I used to be fundie lite but now I think I fall in the category of liberal Christians.I'm a lot more accepting of different groups of people.I only say this because my parents have beliefs homosexuality, that rub me the wrong way because I have a lot of homosexual friends. They somehow think because I hang out with them that I will become gay. People only become annoying when they try to push beliefs down your throat.

[raineymott]

My inlaws and brother (and his inlaws) are all fundie-lite I guess. Even though my brother's courtship was hell (thanks to my dad), I think he still believes in it. My inlaws are into courtship, some mild version of "purity" (no rings, but they're all into the "saving"), into modesty (tho my sis in law wears skinny jeans...but with a long shirt overtop), anti-gay, etc. Fortunately they all aren't as bad as my family so I can still stand them...some things are just really irritating. Also fortunately, a couple of my brothers in law are going to a secular college. I think it's doing good things for them.

[1004srs]

Grouping people and saying all people of that group act one way or another is a form of bigotry.

All fundies, all Catholic, all Jews, all Wiccans, all athiests, all heterosexuals, all bisexuals, all homosexuals, all polyamorous, all whites, all blacks.....

All people of a group don't act a certain way. Just because a person has dealt with a person of another religion or group who is hateful - it doesn't mean that all people of that group are hateful.