Bro Gary Hawkins 23: Give Us the History

[AmazonGrace]

Merry Xmas Gary 

[thoughtful]

Gary, go to bed. You have to get up for church in the morning.

[Ozlsn]

TeChristas? Well certain wingnuts would certainly be in favour of that.

This Aitken bible though has me befuddled- it's not the One True 1611 KJV! It was fully published in 1782! It was authorised by Congress rather than divinely inspired!

Seriously if they can accept that without it disturbing their allegiance to a text published over a century earlier they could probably read the NEV as well.

[thoughtful]

7 hours ago, Ozlsn said:

TeChristas? Well certain wingnuts would certainly be in favour of that.

This Aitken bible though has me befuddled- it's not the One True 1611 KJV! It was fully published in 1782! It was authorised by Congress rather than divinely inspired!

Seriously if they can accept that without it disturbing their allegiance to a text published over a century earlier they could probably read the NEV as well.

I haven't listened to the guest speaker's presentation, but, based on what Baker said, the description on the website, and some googling, I think it was just a printing of the KJV. So a replica of it is as OK to them as a modern printing of it, I guess.

I think they only consider it important because they can link it to the American Revolution, and make it part of public schools' history curriculum.

They seem to be building it up as an important element in establishing the country. As far as I can tell, it was an attempt to print a KJV that was small enough for soldiers to carry, and printed here because there was an embargo on British goods. As a business opportunity, it failed to make Aitken any money.

[thoughtful]

A cheerful Christmas message from Gary:

Becky and Gary were both in church this morning, and for a Christmas concert before the evening service and the service itself.

I haven't listened to any of it.

[Ozlsn]

On 12/25/2023 at 2:00 AM, thoughtful said:

think they only consider it important because they can link it to the American Revolution, and make it part of public schools' history curriculum.

I strongly suspect that if we continue down this Christofascist path it will become the One True Untainted by the English Bible and replace the KJV. How else can you prove Republican Jesus?

On 12/25/2023 at 2:00 AM, thoughtful said:

They seem to be building it up as an important element in establishing the country. As far as I can tell, it was an attempt to print a KJV that was small enough for soldiers to carry, and printed here because there was an embargo on British goods. As a business opportunity, it failed to make Aitken any money.

An 'important element in building the country', excuse my eyerolling. Because Christian (nominal or believing) families didn't have Bibles, even in those times. Some soldiers will definitely read religious texts at war, but an awful lot are as religious as they are at home during the quiet bits and a bit too preoccupied during the frenetic bits.

On the positive side I've learned some more about the American Revolution!

[Joyster]

Jacob was celebrating Christmas Eve with Gary’s dad, sister, and brother at a home of someone, not a church! On the FB page of Gary’s brother, there is a picture of Jacob getting an Old Spice gift set. 

I find it really odd that Gary or Rebecca don’t seem to mention Jacob , like he doesn’t exist. I hope it’s just a protection of Jacob’s privacy situation. 

Last month, Rebecca’s daughter posted a picture of herself with Sheila, Gary’s mom, with a note about how much she will miss and lived her grandma. It received reactions from her sisters. I don’t find this odd, but I do find it sad. Gary’s mom was able to maintain a positive relationship with Rebecca’s daughter while Gary can’t (at least from what we can see). 

 

 

 

 

Edited December 26, 2023 by Joyster
Added information

[thoughtful]

18 hours ago, Ozlsn said:

An 'important element in building the country', excuse my eyerolling

They really pound away at the "the US is a Christian nation" crap, don't they? They think David Barton is a scholar.

@Joyster, thanks for letting us know about Jacob's Christmas.

13 hours ago, Joyster said:

I find it really odd that Gary or Rebecca don’t seem to mention Jacob , like he doesn’t exist. I hope it’s just a protection of Jacob’s privacy situation. 

I hope so, as well.

I wouldn't necessarily expect Gary to mention him where we'd see or hear it. He generally only talked about his kids during sermons, when he had a story about them that he thought illustrated something, and there's only been one video of him preaching in a long time. And he almost never posts personal stuff on Facebook, except to praise Becky.

Becky only posts about once a month these days, so it's hard to know what she's thinking.

There is such a "you and me against the world" feeling to Becky and Gary's relationship. I get the impression that he's fine with that. I think he wants only Becky and some preachers (dead or alive) to adore, and his fantasy of being right with God.

I suspect she's not as happy about being so isolated. But she seems to consistently choose him over everyone else, so she has nobody to blame but herself.

13 hours ago, Joyster said:

Last month, Rebecca’s daughter posted a picture of herself with Sheila, Gary’s mom, with a note about how much she will miss and lived her grandma. It received reactions from her sisters. I don’t find this odd, but I do find it sad. Gary’s mom was able to maintain a positive relationship with Rebecca’s daughter while Gary can’t (at least from what we can see). 

I remember seeing that, as well.

There are all kinds of interweaving levels of who talks to who, based on what I can see on Facebook. It does seem like some of the people who get along and appreciate one another do stay in touch, and work their way around the hatefulness of Becky and Gary.

Gary had a turkey:

Spoiler

 

Gary is a turkey:

Spoiler

 

[Alisamer]

1 hour ago, thoughtful said:

 

Gary is a turkey:

  Hide contents

 

It's easy for Gary to post stuff like that. Until they landed in TN due to necessity, Becky did way more work on the daily than Gary did, and she, with her MLMs, was the only one of them really "working" at a job at all. Gary just traveled around and yelled at people then stuck his hand out for an offering. They did have one kid with them, for a while, but he was a teen who also did more work than Gary, it seemed. Now they have no kids, are living in someone else's house, and it's only because of Becky's health that she's not "working" in some capacity. (Although she likely is actually, probably helping take care of the person they live with. And keeping Gary fed!)

I'd think Gary might be a bit more careful about reposting some things like this. Enough of them and people will start to ask about his kids. And her kids. And why they aren't THEIR kids...

He doesn't seem to use their divorces as a "testimony" at all and seems to keep that pretty quiet. I'd love to hear the gossip at the churches they used to preach at, if anyone there bothered to look them up at all.

[Ozlsn]

Gary might want to not focus on the traditional male role in this scenario - as a provider he sucks. 

5 hours ago, thoughtful said:

There are all kinds of interweaving levels of who talks to who, based on what I can see on Facebook. It does seem like some of the people who get along and appreciate one another do stay in touch, and work their way around the hatefulness of Becky and Gary.

I'm glad at least some of that family seem to be relatively sane in terms of interpersonal relationships. 

3 hours ago, Alisamer said:

doesn't seem to use their divorces as a "testimony" at all and seems to keep that pretty quiet. I'd love to hear the gossip at the churches they used to preach at, if anyone there bothered to look them up at all.

Seconding wanting to know the gossip. Given how small that world seems to be it wouldn't surprise me if quite a few churches are aware but too polite to mention it in front of Gary and Becky. Guessing the tea circles go nuts before and after they are there though.

[thoughtful]

1 hour ago, Ozlsn said:

Seconding wanting to know the gossip. Given how small that world seems to be it wouldn't surprise me if quite a few churches are aware but too polite to mention it in front of Gary and Becky. Guessing the tea circles go nuts before and after they are there though.

I have always wanted to know who, among the churches they visited, knew any or all of the story.

All I can do is speculate. I get a vague impression that they talked about it more honestly when they were in the throes of it, and have been sweeping it more under the rug (or just not wanting to think about it, in their "we were made for one another" fantasy), in the years since.

At one point, their website said they were both "victims from fornication," so they weren't hiding it at first - in fact, it did seem to be a theme, if not an actual testimony. Here's what it said in 2015:

Sometime in the middle of 2018 (I didn't check every version saved on the Wayback Machine, so I'm not sure exactly when), that disappeared, and the only thing on the "about us" page after that was a list of churches they've visited.

I've never heard Gary use their history as part of his testimony, or in a sermon. And, of course, he always refers to all of the children as his, and never talks about how long he and Becky have been married.

Gary didn't claim to have his "burden for America" until after he'd married Becky, so there may be some churches they've visited in which nobody knew they were a blended family.

Becky was  going through her custody battle through some of their travels, and the older kids might have confided in someone, or even just casually mentioned that they were a blended family, while they were still all together.

And, of course, they travel in insular and very gossipy circles, and probably got their early preaching gigs through people who knew Danny or had some other connection to Gary's early life and knew his whole history.

So it's really a toss-up - who knows and who doesn't, who talks openly about it with them or just gossips behind their backs, could be just about any combination of people.

It may be that Gary tried using it as part of his preaching and testimony, and it didn't go over well, so he stopped.

As judgmental as I'd expect IFB people to be about divorce, I think a lot of them turn a blind eye to it for someone they like, for "men of God," and/or if the story can be spun so that the people they know are painted as the victims (which I'm sure is how both Gary and Becky still tell it, if they tell it at all).

There was a whole page about marriage and divorce on their old website, as well:

Quote

Marrage & Divorce

John 5:39-44 KJB Search the sriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life;  and they are they which testify of me.  And ye will not come to me, that ye might have life.  I receive not honour from men.  But I know you, that ye have not the love of God in you.  I am come in my Father's name, and ye receie me not:  if another shall come in his own name, him ye will receive.  How can ye believe, which receive honour one of another, and seek not the honour that cometh from God only?

Jeremiah 5:25-31  KJB Your iniquities have turned away these things, and your sins have withholden good things from you.  For among my people are found wicked men:  they lay wait, as he that setteth snares; they set a trap, they catch men.  As a cage is full of birds, so are their houses full of deceit:  therefore they are become great, and waxen rich.  They are waxen fat, they shine: yea, they overpass the deeds of the wicked:  they judge not the cause, the cause of the fatherless, yet they prosper; and the right of the needy do they not judge.  Shall I not visit for these things? saith the LORD:  shall not my soul be avenged on such a nation as this?  A wonderful and horrible thing is committed in the land; The prophets prophesy falsely and the priests bear rule by their means; and my people love to have it so:  and what will ye do in the end thereof?

Divorce:  The only scripture indicates that no divorce is recognized by the Lord unless one of the mates has been guilty of fornication.

1828 edition of Webster's American Dictionary of the English Language fornicationFORNICA'TION, n. [L. fornicatio.]

1. The incontinence or lewdness of unmarried persons, male or female; also, the criminal conversation of a married man with an unmarried woman.

2. Adultery. Matt. 5.

3. Incest. 1Cor. 5.

4. Idolatry; a forsaking of the true God, and worshipping of idols. 2Chron. 21. Rev. 19.

 

Note, guilty by association: 

Some people say that Fornication is sex before marriage, some say, adultry is the second ceremony.  Is this because, if these were not the definitions, then divorce is not always a sin, and  then some men might therefore, be considered by the LORD not to be double married, making them qualified to preach when the rulers say otherwise.  And if they didn't commit adultery (2nd ceremony), they haven't disqualified themselves from the ministries.  The innocent party in a divorce (the mate who is not guilty of fornication) is made a sinner by association by these people.

Divorce in the Bible: 

The only recorded divorce in the Bible is God's divorce from Israel for her adulteries-

Jeremiah 3: 8 And I saw, when for all the causes whereby backsliding Israel committed adultery I had put her away, and given her a bill of divorce; yet her treacherous sister Judah feared not, but went and played the harlot also and Isaiah 50:1 Thus saith the LORD, Where is the bill of your mother's divorcement, whom I have put away? or which of my creditors is to whom I have sold you?  Behold for your iniquities have ye sold yourselves, and for your transgressions is your mother put away.---

Divorce is a tragic experience, but not a sin if GOD himself made it a provision of grace to some who through no fault of their own, find themselves joined to an unfaithful spouse. 

To interpret 1 Timothy 3:2, A bishop then must be blameless, the husband of one wife, vigilant, sober, of good behavior, given to hospitality, apt to teach;,

one must  use a present state of true being not a past condition of man's situation of life.  Because if this means having been married one time it has to include ALL, not just the divorced.  ALL because it ONLY says husband of one wife.  If a man's wife dies and he remarries, would he still be qualified to preach?  Just as death had changed his marital status, so does the legal sanctioned divorce (by fornication Matt 19).  If you exclude the divorced, you must exclude the widower, too, for again, 1 Timothy 3:2, A bishop then must be blameless, the husband of one wife, vigilant, sober, of good behavior, given to hospitality, apt to teach.

One more question for you...

Do you not think that someone who has been through a divorce, sanctioned in the Bible, would be qualified to warn the world of what would destroy our homes and family through fornication, whether it be physical or spiritual?  We all love to hear the wonderful conversion stories of preachers who were sinners before their conversion.  Please pray, and discern what GOD says.

This also disappears from the website, at about the same time.

[thoughtful]

Becky and Gary were both in church tonight. More under spoiler.
 

Spoiler

Becky is called on for the first prayer request, and says, "My granddaughter Skyla, that's three and a half months old, was diagnosed with Covid today. So just pray for her."

Baker says how adorable she is (he says he's seen her picture), and asks if the rest of the family's been checked. Becky says "Dad has a stuffy nose and he's gettin' checked, but I haven't heard."

So it does sound like there has been contact between Becky and Adrienne, beyond that one post on Becky's Facebook.

I looked through a few recent posts on Adrienne's Facebook, and she got loving, complimentary messages from Michaela Scruggs and Kim Wells - more examples of Gary's family working around his being a shit to stay connected to someone Becky brought into their lives.

I didn't listen to the rest of the service.

[thoughtful]

Gary posted about going to the mens' home again:

Quote

Ok folks had a good time at the Onesimus House. Enjoy our time there with the men and the testimonies. Sure am Thankful for the opportunity the LORD gives .

 

[thoughtful]

Don't you want to be as educated as Gary in 2024? Stay in your place of serve and take the corses at your on pace. Do the new!

Quote

Ok folks we are about to head into 2024 hard to believe. With that being said it’s time to start thinking about the college corses. We have the KJB King James Bible College. Very reasonable and the only text book is the KJB. You wouldn’t have to leave your place of serve. You can do it at your on pace. We want to be a help to all that we can. So let’s start these classes in 2024. Do the new in 2024. Let us know and help us share. We also have where you can start even being in school to get a head start. Thanks for help and being a part of the college.

Bro Gary Hawkins

 

[marmalade]

I think I speak pretty fluent Garyese, but this post is beyond comprehension. The "head start" bit is unintelligible. 

[thoughtful]

21 minutes ago, marmalade said:

I think I speak pretty fluent Garyese, but this post is beyond comprehension. The "head start" bit is unintelligible. 

IIRC from previous posts, they encourage people without a high school diploma or GED, and of any age, to enroll. So I think it's supposed to mean something along the lines of "We welcome students who are still in high school - get a head start on your college education."

Since it's not really a college, they're not choosy about students - heck, they even let womenfolk enroll!

[marmalade]

That's what his word salad meant? I had no clue! 😂

[thoughtful]

28 minutes ago, marmalade said:

That's what his word salad meant? I had no clue! 😂

If I didn't already know about their encouraging high school students to enroll, I would have been just as lost.

I don't know if it's a good thing or a bad thing, but I have a lot of Gary-related context in my brain. 

[thoughtful]

Gary on New Year's resolutions. I think that "truth" is supposed to be "trust," and "comment" should be "commitment."

I can't imagine Gary has any idea that the "leaf" in the expression refers to the page of a book, not a leaf from a tree. Either that, or he's picturing all of us heathens reading only dirty books!

 

[Xan]

You know, I'll almost give Gary a half a point for that one.  We could just about understand it and it wasn't the usual stuff about being washed in Jesus' blood or going to hell.  Maybe he's trying to come up with some new material for when he does his traveling preaching again.

[Expectopatronus]

Ok, he said it; resolutions aren’t Biblical. Now I have an excuse to not try to do better next year. According to Gary, God is opposed to any of us making changes in our lives. 

[thoughtful]

Spoiler

Gary, I don't want to say "I'm 2024."  I'd rather say:

I know - he meant "in 2024."

A surrounded GOD intervention sounds uncomfortable.

Also:

Spoiler

I looked up this commenter on Gary's post about resolutions. I resolve not to do that again - he is  . . . something.

Spoiler

https://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100064636256164&comment_id=Y29tbWVudDo3NDEzNTE0NTc4NjkzMzEyXzQwOTMyNzc4NTAwODQ3Mw%3D%3D

Becky and Gary were in church for both services yesterday. I haven't watched either. The evening service was supposed to be a "family fun night," so I may check it out at some point.

Edited January 2 by thoughtful
missing word

[thoughtful]

Guys, you don't have to get Gary a shirt and hat - your gift to him is feeding his ego when he comes to "be a help," and gets to preach at you and be treated like a VIP.

Spoiler

 

[AmazonGrace]

Does Gary wear t-shirts? Isn't that like half naked? 

[thoughtful]

3 hours ago, AmazonGrace said:

Does Gary wear t-shirts? Isn't that like half naked? 

It is! However, I think we've seen him in a t-shirt once or twice. Hypocritical fundies strike again.

He could always wear it with a long-sleeved shirt underneath.

Spoiler