M is for Mama 15

[MomKB]

1 hour ago, JermajestyDuggar said:

I don’t think it will. I think her followers have seen how uninvolved she is and they still hump her leg. I’m always amazed by how much humpers can ignore while putting fundie mommy bloggers on a pedestal. 

When she made the Europe trip announcement look like a pregnancy announcement, someone called her out for being insensitive to those struggling with infertility or loss. Her followers jumped all over the poster and rushed to defend Abbie. 

[Nancy-Druesel]

1 hour ago, danvillebelle said:

They missed their train to Versailles because they couldn't get the stroller folded up quickly enough. 

Why do I have the feeling this is going to be the theme of the whole trip...Braggie being prevented and invonvenienced from what she wants to do because kids.  

What do you want to bet it was one of the children struggling to get the stroller folded up (likely after being the one to push it), somehow I just don't see Abbie taking charge of that little responsibility herself.

[theotherelise]

She made a comment on a IG story soon after announcing it that one way people could pray for their trip was that the little ones would make it through the first stretch okay. She said that it would be like over 34 hours from starting travel to when they reach their first accommodation. This was the plan the whole time. 

The trip has to cost over $15,000 right? flights alone for 13 people even with some frequent flyer miles alone is going to be bananas expensive. So it's hard to accept any financial justification for making the trip more difficult for the multiple under 5s. There are just so many options that would have taken longer but provided opportunities for the little ones (and frankly all of them) the chance to rest and regulate. They could have gotten a hotel near heathrow and given everyone a day to partially recover from jet lag.

Edit to add: but good thing Abbie worked so hard to find "super rad deals" on patagonia jackets for all the kids to take on the trip. it would have been such a tragedy to wear an off-brand, $5 jacket from Once Upon a Child.

[SassyPants]

In the 21st century most couples can not have 10 children. And if they somehow do, they aren’t taking 10 children aged 17-2 to Europe for 45 days. So, let’s not pretend that she is a relatable mother. The number of families in situations like hers are too small to even form a group. She reminds me so much of JB Duggar, except where he used to display a lot of awe shucks, AH can’t hide her disdain nearly as well. Both families used their kids as props. 

She’s been to Europe before. She has to know about how those bullet trains operate, right?

Truly, I think she is not working with a full deck. Her affect is off, she’s impulsive and continually makes odd decisions where her kids (and reproduction) are concerned. In addition, Shaun seems checked out. What a helter skelter family life for those 10 kids.

[Red Hair, Black Dress]

My hope for her children is 2-fold.

1) The oldest ones see Europe as the wide world experience it can be. That their eyes are opened to a whole wonderful world beyond Braggie's fundie strictures,

2) The lump sum she mentioned some time back is real and that Ezra takes it and goes far far far away. Never to return except to help rescue his siblings.

[SuperNova]

3 hours ago, danvillebelle said:

They missed their train to Versailles because they couldn't get the stroller folded up quickly enough. 

Why would they make Versailles the first stop? Like my French friend says, when you get there, that's all there is. It's worth it but maybe go on another day. Everyone is jet lagged and no doubt exhausted from the 30+ hour long journey. Something closer to their accommodations would have been the smart choice but Abbie isn't known for smart choices. 

[SassyPants]

3 minutes ago, SuperNova said:

Why would they make Versailles the first stop? Like my French friend says, when you get there, that's all there is. It's worth it but maybe go on another day. Everyone is jet lagged and no doubt exhausted from the 30+ hour long journey. Something closer to their accommodations would have been the smart choice but Abbie isn't known for smart choices. 

I agree, and this is an example of what I am referring to in my last comment. It’s not like they are short on time and need to cram everything into 5 days. They have a month and a half…for a person who thinks she’s smarter than your average bear, she continually shows that her decision making skills are sub par and non-sensical. 

[Alisamer]

4 hours ago, danvillebelle said:

They missed their train to Versailles because they couldn't get the stroller folded up quickly enough. 

This is ridiculous and stupid. They have THAT MANY KIDS and have been using strollers for years and years and this is not even their first set of twins... and they couldn't get it folded up quickly enough to get on the train? Either they just barely made it to the station and were hoping the train would wait, or they didn't have the forethought to fold the thing ahead of time, or they stood around each expecting someone else to fold the thing up. 

I've been to Walt Disney World a lot. We use the buses there, a LOT. Even the slowest stroller-folders I've seen can get it done in less than 90 seconds, usually. And these are family with just two parents and no child-parents to help. Mom carries the littles, any slightly older kids hold on to mom's shirt, while dad follows behind folding the stroller up as he walks. 

28 minutes ago, SuperNova said:

Why would they make Versailles the first stop? Like my French friend says, when you get there, that's all there is. It's worth it but maybe go on another day. Everyone is jet lagged and no doubt exhausted from the 30+ hour long journey. Something closer to their accommodations would have been the smart choice but Abbie isn't known for smart choices. 

I loved Versaille, but I can't imagine small children enjoying it much. And it's definitely not a first-day activity. And we go hard when we travel. Our first three days were at Disneyland Paris but even then we got there, checked in, rested for a bit, and then headed into the parks where we did what we could until a reasonable yet very early bedtime. Our first day in actual Paris we did a hop-on hop-off bus and explored the catacombs. I probably wouldn't take little kids into the catacombs. I can't imagine them being able to keep the twins from grabbing at the bones and stuff, and there are lots and lots and lots and lots of stairs. 

[CTRLZero]

4 hours ago, danvillebelle said:

They missed their train to Versailles because they couldn't get the stroller folded up quickly enough. 

My goodness, I’m exhausted just thinking about traveling with all these children.  Fun memory:  I was on a tour of England with a group of well-behaved adults, and a few of them were unable to quickly gather their luggage to exit the train at our destination, so (as we encouragingly waved at them through the windows) they had to continue to the next stop and double back.  Stuff happens, but dealing with so many tired kids, ouch!  Over the years, I’ve learned to build extra time for rest, making connections, and various mishaps.  

[Hane]

When my grandson was 2.5, his parents and I went to Iceland with him. For a four-day trip, we planned the heck out of that thing: driving a couple of hours to get a direct flight, scoping out child-friendly activities. Even so, with only one extremely low-maintenance toddler, there was a meltdown or two. Still, it was worth it all to see his excitement when I took him to the outdoor zoo to see the native animals. He may not remember it all, but I always will.

[SassyPants]

14 minutes ago, CTRLZero said:

My goodness, I’m exhausted just thinking about traveling with all these children.  Fun memory:  I was on a tour of England with a group of well-behaved adults, and a few of them were unable to quickly gather their luggage to exit the train at our destination, so (as we encouragingly waved at them through the windows) they had to continue to the next stop and double back.  Stuff happens, but dealing with so many tired kids, ouch!  Over the years, I’ve learned to build extra time for rest, making connections, and various mishaps.  

When we went to France and Germany on a business trip in 1995 (we were with a group), the leader of the group made it crystal clear how the trains operated, and when they say they leave at 12:04, they mean 12:04, not 12:05 and 50 secs to wait for some scattered brain parents to fold up their strollers. 

[Pammy]

I don't really understand the stroller/Versailles story.

Those trains run all the time, all day, every day. I don't know the exact interval, but I'd be surprised if it wasn't every 30 minutes or less during ordinary hours. You don't need a timed ticket for the train. Why didn't they just wait and take the next one? (Maybe Versailles itself has timed tickets now? Or they were on a timed tour?)

I also wonder when/where they were folding the stroller. At the train stations, usually you go down a bunch of stairs to pass under various tracks in a hallway/tunnel before going back up a bunch of stairs to your designated platform. The stroller would have to have been folded long before boarding the train itself, I imagine.

And also, it wouldn't have absolutely needed to be folded to board the train itself. You can lift and drive it the one/few steps to get on board, then fold it while standing in the entryway if you need to.

I really think something else was actually the major part of this story.

[JermajestyDuggar]

My parenting is not perfect. Actually I would say I’m average and even below average some days. But my parenting often goes by the idea of doing things when they are developmentally ready. This has worked at times and failed at others (potty training was a fail even though he was developmentally ready). So I didn’t push swimming lessons until they were mentally ready and that worked well for us. I’m getting at the idea that my kids would have been hell in Europe. But I actually think they might do ok now as an 8 and 10 years old. We can’t afford a trip like that right now. But if we could have afforded it when they were toddlers, I still wouldn’t have taken them. It’s like taking your cat to a KISS concert. Neither you nor the cat will enjoy it. So why bother? 

[SassyPants]

After seeing her latest IG at VP, I’m just going to state an obvious concern…I hope that Abbie and Shaun understand that if they are going to drag 10 children, 5 of whom are fairly young little boys, to venues that are more adult centered, they need be focused on those kids to ensure that they are not interfering with other peoples’ travel experience. Sure, little kids act out and that’s why most people would tailor the travel schedule a bit, or not drag everyone to the more intense venues. Kids acting out on a playground, at a children’s museum or family style restaurant, no problem, but at fancier and pricier, adult centered activities, not acceptable. I hope they mix in lots of rest and kid centered days. TODAY should have been 1 of those days. What did SHi., Tit and Tob get of VP?  ETA: also, unfortunately for them, they have lots of little kids. So if 4 of their littles act out, they are going to get noticed, quickly, vs most young families where they might have only 1 kid acting out. If you chose to have all those kids,  your choices change. A and S refuse to accept that fact.

6 minutes ago, JermajestyDuggar said:

My parenting is not perfect. Actually I would say I’m average and even below average some days. But my parenting often goes by the idea of doing things when they are developmentally ready. This has worked at times and failed at others (potty training was a fail even though he was developmentally ready). So I didn’t push swimming lessons until they were mentally ready and that worked well for us. I’m getting at the idea that my kids would have been hell in Europe. But I actually think they might do ok now as an 8 and 10 years old. We can’t afford a trip like that right now. But if we could have afforded it when they were toddlers, I still wouldn’t have taken them. It’s like taking your cat to a KISS concert. Neither you nor the cat will enjoy it. So why bother? 

You expressed my exact thoughts in a less bitchy way!

Edited May 3, 2023 by SassyPants

[Alisamer]

Yeah, like, I loved Paris. It was amazing. But I'm thinking back on the things I did and trying to figure out what little kids would get out of it. They might like the boat ride on the river, maybe. Riding the metro might be fun for them the first time. Riding a bus around might entertain them with sights for a little while. 

But I think even the most well behaved under-10 or so is going to struggle a bit with the art museums and churches, would probably be scared and/or unruly to control in the catacombs, probably not terribly interested in Versaille, might enjoy the Eiffel tower but only if they can deal with the crazy number of people up there, might or might not enjoy exploring the cemeteries (or might run wild there). There was a tram tour around Montmartre the kids might have managed well, maybe. 

Like I think it would be entirely possible to have a wonderful Paris trip with a toddler. But I would probably make it lean hard on very short visits to less kid-related things interspersed with parks and playgrounds, and add in a Disneyland day as well. 

I don't get the impression that MisformedMama or whatever is the sort to be terribly interested or knowledgeable about art and history, or if she is she's definitely not the sort to prime the kids ahead of time to be interested and excited about that stuff themselves. Especially considering they are going various places, and are taking such a long vacation. I personally, in a situation like hers, would have rented an apartment so they could stay several days in the same place, and in the run up to the trip would have watched travel videos and Hunchback of Notre Dame and other movies set in places they will go, and talked up the amazing art and stuff to get the kids excited to see everything. She seems like the sort to do what SHE wants (and shallowly at that) and the kids just have to keep up with her as best they can manage. 

[theotherelise]

icky icky. I have a new three year old who is recently potty trained and I make sure to know where all bathrooms are everywhere I go. I had to help him use a gross public park toilet last weekend, but we did it. This sounds gross and uncomfortable for Toby and all passengers around them. Stop and change the diaper. 

[Ozlsn]

8 hours ago, theotherelise said:

She made a comment on a IG story soon after announcing it that one way people could pray for their trip was that the little ones would make it through the first stretch okay. She said that it would be like over 34 hours from starting travel to when they reach their first accommodation. This was the plan the whole time. 

Oh dear Lord. Why would you do that if you had an option not to? 34 hours is about a normal travel time to get from here to most of Europe and even travelling with just one cranky adult I'll try to get to accommodation to reset as smoothly as possible (and try and factor in whether a stopover would be better/possible). I have no idea what the restrictions they were operating under were but it would have been cheaper to fly into Paris than London due to additional tax, and closer to their first accommodation. 

Even then the first day should be a lazy one - find a park, have an icecream, try to get everyone on the right time zone.

[tankgirl]

I was naive and when we started to look at the possibility of moving to Europe from the States and the opportunity came to visit partially paid by work, when our first was 1.5 years old we took the chance and visited 3 countries in one short 2 week trip. Mostly in case it was our only visit.  I admit to packing too much in, and we did stop in London to go on, but like everyone else has said Abbie seemed to not even try to make this trip practical. Why didn't they fly on to Paris at the least?

I also agree the Versaille story is missing a lot of facts, cause none of it is ringing true either!

As to our trip, having 1 child, two parents and time and activities built in that fit our child's needs, actually lead to a great trip, except my child had night terrors the first two nights from jet leg, not a norm at home. I did not get to go to all the places I wanted like the Louvre as I didn't think it a good fit for my child, but we created a trip that worked for us all. Abbie doesn't think like that and I think she will be a mess early into this trip. Jet lag and kids can be miserable, the first night you sleep, but the 2 nights after that can be the worst. Having just dealt with jet lag recently. I wouldn't want to be here any day but definitely night tonight.

 

My kids are excellent travellers now and though one is under 10 does well in museums, buy we still Balance everyone's interests on our trips, and skipped some things till they have more interest. 

That nappy story is disgusting! I would never have allowed that to happen poor baby! Toilets are not that hard too find seriously!

 

 

Edited May 3, 2023 by tankgirl

[treehugger]

Poor baby, that’s a diaper rash just waiting to happen.  I have changed my kids everywhere, including on a mat on a park bench, when there was absolutely no where else nearby to go. I used to bring extra baby blankets to change them on if I knew we were going to be out a while.  How has she been a mother this long and not gotten a wee bit resourceful on changing diapers? 

[SassyPants]

46 minutes ago, treehugger said:

Poor baby, that’s a diaper rash just waiting to happen.  I have changed my kids everywhere, including on a mat on a park bench, when there was absolutely no where else nearby to go. I used to bring extra baby blankets to change them on if I knew we were going to be out a while.  How has she been a mother this long and not gotten a wee bit resourceful on changing diapers? 

It’s odd that a person with 10 kids seemingly is not very intuitive when it comes to motherhood and all that it encompasses. It seems she really struggles with being a mother and the role is not something she naturally enjoys. It’s sad for all-

[GreenBeans]

On 5/2/2023 at 7:06 PM, SassyPants said:

These idiots are going to be in Europe for 45 days and will be spending time, at later date, in London. Maybe they should have planned to spend today in London instead of tacking on another leg to the trip.

Lol, did they really fly into Heathrow just to travel on to France? Maybe this is me being from Europe where distances are judged differently from the US, but this seems ridiculous to me.

Edited May 4, 2023 by GreenBeans

[indianabones]

14 hours ago, Alisamer said:

I loved Versaille, but I can't imagine small children enjoying it much.

The chateau itself wouldn't be too interesting for kids, but Trianon has farm animals and the grounds are very park-like. Plus, there are ice cream stands around the grounds. Back when I lived in Paris I took the kids I was nannying to Versailles (but again, not inside the chateau) and they had a blast. Definitely more child friendly than the Louvre.

[Bluebirdbluebell]

9 hours ago, theotherelise said:

icky icky. I have a new three year old who is recently potty trained and I make sure to know where all bathrooms are everywhere I go. I had to help him use a gross public park toilet last weekend, but we did it. This sounds gross and uncomfortable for Toby and all passengers around them. Stop and change the diaper. 

So the Lord made the child's diaper rip? Which was good, because Abbie put on two and it turned out two were needed? And this is all God's doing? That's quite a testimony. 

[danvillebelle]

1 hour ago, Bluebirdbluebell said:

So the Lord made the child's diaper rip? Which was good, because Abbie put on two and it turned out two were needed? And this is all God's doing? That's quite a testimony. 

Of course!  Sudan is literally falling apart at the seams and people are dying left and right, but the good lord had time to prompt Braggie to put on two diapers.  Priorities. 

[JermajestyDuggar]

Braggie has done this before. She attributes god to some of the most mundane things. I don’t believe in god but if I did, I know he would have better things to do than rip the fucking diaper so he doesn’t have a blow out. Where was god when the stroller wouldn’t fold fast enough? 

Edited May 4, 2023 by JermajestyDuggar