Botkin 3: Elizabeth Married!

[Mrs Ms]

8 hours ago, hoipolloi said:

Some interesting comments on the @lucastrexarms IG post about being on Tucker Carlson:

He actually said the quiet bit out loud! We know plenty of the fundies (and general population unfortunately) think it, but he really said it out loud! 🤯

[JermajestyDuggar]

2 hours ago, Columbia said:

Lucas talks about his siblings the same way Geoff talks about his children in his YouTube videos. Geoff will regularly mention "my children" en masse if he's talking about homeschooling successfully, or if he's talking about TRex Arms. Sometimes he'll get more specific and talk about his sons in regards to something going on with TRex Arms. He's never specifically mentioned Ben's composing, and he's never referred to his daughters' doings once. He has "sons," and he has "children," and that's it. If you weren't familiar with the family you'd have no idea that he has two daughters.

Lucas mentions the family moving down to New Zealand and Y2K, which is way more hilarious having seen Julian Gregori's Y2K video. He also mentions Geoff's "consulting" work in Washington DC, but he doesn't seem to have any idea what his father was doing there either.

He talks about probably having ADHD and being lazy as a child. In reading between the lines in Victoria's homeschooling lectures it sounds like several of the sons have some degree of ADHD, and they probably got that from their father, judging by Geoff's rambling speeches and stream of half completed projects. Victoria always sounded very proud that she kept them out of the government schools and off of drugs, but how much stress and trouble and trauma might have been saved with some therapy and medication? If Lucas has a son whose ADHD is even more unmanageable than his, what is he going to to? Beat it out of him? (Probably.)

Lucas talks about how all his siblings share his views. Apparently he missed Audri's latest tweet about keeping an MP3 player with Rushdoony lectures away from her sons. He also says that he and his wife are planning on homeschooling their children. At the very least they'll get a stronger science education than Lucas and his siblings did, because theirs seemed to mostly consist of nature walks and looking at bugs under a microscope, according to Victoria's lectures.

Shoshanna Pearl just posted this about her own ADHD (that was likely never actually diagnosed by a professional). I read it thinking, “yet you would never allow a child to go on an adhd medication. Even if he/she was severely struggling.”

Edited March 18, 2023 by JermajestyDuggar

[Howl]

I suspect that Lucas has lost some fans and customers over his social media posts, but probably has gained just as many, considering the current political climate. 

It will be interesting to see how Lucas' new wife navigates Botkinville.  She's incredibly well educated and (pre-marriage) professionally successful in her engineering field.   Will she be an asset able to move T Rex Arms forward from a technical/materials standpoint?  Can she set up her own engineering business and work from home? 

She might have serious business acumen as well. I think she and Lucas are doing some large-scale real estate investing (apartment complexes?). 

Geoff might set aside some of his scruples about subordinate roles of women if she brings in the money that allows he and Victoria to cruise right along in old age. 

 

[GuineaPigCourtship]

Watching that video made me cringe so hard I could only make it through about 30 seconds.  Good lord.

[hoipolloi]

On 3/18/2023 at 9:03 AM, Howl said:

She might have serious business acumen as well. I think she and Lucas are doing some large-scale real estate investing (apartment complexes?). 

She is all about making money and has determined that real estate investment is the way to do it.

 

[Howl]

17 hours ago, hoipolloi said:

She is all about making money and has determined that real estate investment is the way to do it.

My concern: These people are already rich and getting richer. 

At some point, they may well be in the multi-millions rich.  That's the point when these Christofascist types decide to get into politics or be political influencers.  

 Since the Botkins are pro-coup, pro-Trump, anyone have any idea if the Botkins are more generally aligned with any particular Christofascist movement or leader or is Geoff too much of a narcissist to align with anyone else?

[JermajestyDuggar]

2 hours ago, Howl said:

My concern: These people are already rich and getting richer. 

At some point, they may well be in the multi-millions rich.  That's the point when these Christofascist types decide to get into politics or be political influencers.  

 Since the Botkins are pro-coup, pro-Trump, anyone have any idea if the Botkins are more generally aligned with any particular Christofascist movement or leader or is Geoff too much of a narcissist to align with anyone else?

Isn’t that how it always seems to work in the US? The rich get richer and the poor stay the same or get even poorer. And the rich get out of trouble like 99% of the time thanks to their money. 

[Columbia]

4 hours ago, Howl said:

My concern: These people are already rich and getting richer. 

At some point, they may well be in the multi-millions rich.  That's the point when these Christofascist types decide to get into politics or be political influencers.  

 Since the Botkins are pro-coup, pro-Trump, anyone have any idea if the Botkins are more generally aligned with any particular Christofascist movement or leader or is Geoff too much of a narcissist to align with anyone else?

I'm still surprised that they didn't jump on the Doug Wilson bandwagon after the Rise and Fall of Vision Forum. 

Geoff might be a narcissist, but he's also incredibly shrewd. I don't think he'd have any trouble hopping onto someone's project as long as it afforded him a position in which he didn't have to take any responsibility for the project failing, and it wouldn't affect him long-term, like VF or his shenanigans in New Zealand. I still wonder if he's involved in some way with Hillsdale College's charter school scheme.

Lucas is a hot head, and I think could easily rise to prominence by virtue of that, but I also think he wouldn't get quite the same authority or respect as his father, also by virtue of that. They're like the difference between Doug Wilson and Mark Driscoll. Both are terrible people, but one has carefully built himself an empire in which he is untouchable, and the other simply thinks he's untouchable.

[MamaJunebug]

I’m just aware of Benji Botkin’s new look - goatee and long, lustrous hair like in The pictures of men in Biblical times.  Apologies if this is old news, it popped up on my Instagram. Mercy me!  

[hoipolloi]

6 hours ago, Howl said:

My concern: These people are already rich and getting richer. 

At some point, they may well be in the multi-millions rich.  That's the point when these Christofascist types decide to get into politics or be political influencers.  

Maybe. Right now, it seems to me that they mostly enjoy spending the money on themselves, which is certainly their prerogative. On IG, Kara posted that they had hired a personal chef, personal trainer, and a business coach. Donʻt recall that those things were part of Geoffʻs 200-year plan.

 

1 hour ago, Columbia said:

Lucas is a hot head, and I think could easily rise to prominence by virtue of that, but I also think he wouldn't get quite the same authority or respect as his father, also by virtue of that.

Heʻs also not very bright. If he rises to any prominence it will be because others see him as a handy political tool -- kind of like Reagan, Bush 43 & Trump, all of whom were fucking stupid but extremely useful to their paymasters. 

[Bluebirdbluebell]

1 hour ago, MamaJunebug said:

I’m just aware of Benji Botkin’s new look - goatee and long, lustrous hair like in The pictures of men in Biblical times.  Apologies if this is old news, it popped up on my Instagram. Mercy me!  

Isn't Ben Botkin the ex-fundie who left the compound?

[JermajestyDuggar]

7 hours ago, Bluebirdbluebell said:

Isn't Ben Botkin the ex-fundie who left the compound?

Yes. He and Audri. He seems to be the only Botkin son to make it out. 

[Howl]

9 hours ago, hoipolloi said:

Kara posted that they had hired a personal chef, personal trainer, and a business coach.

Whoa!  Where do they live, do you know?  

As their businesses are getting bigger and more successful, possibly faster than they anticipated,  hiring a business coach is beyond wise. 

Maybe the business coach will strongly advise Lucas to STFU on social media. 

I'd check out Lucas and Kara on Instagram, but the Instagram algorithm would be on that like a duck on a junebug (as my brother would say) and feed me more of the same.  I follow one Instagram food account (OneBalancedLife) and Instagram thinks I want to see a bazillion cooking Instas every damn day. 

 

[Columbia]

12 hours ago, hoipolloi said:

Donʻt recall that those things were part of Geoffʻs 200-year plan.

Actually, believe it or not, they kind of are.

https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2013/9/7/1234985/-Books-So-Bad-They-re-Good-Back-to-the-Kitchen-Modern-Jezebel

Quote

Concretely, Geoffrey Botkin explains, this means evaluating all materials and media that daughters receive from childhood on as it pertains to their future role. The Botkin sisters received no Barbie dolls—idols that inspire girls to lead selfish lives—but rather a “doll estate” that could help them learn to manage a household of assets, furniture, and servants in the aristocratic vision of Quiverfull life which Botkin paints for the families around the room. The toys the girls played with were “tools for dominion,” such as kitchen utensils and other “tools for their laboratory”: the kitchen.

It's in that lecture I posted previously in the thread.

[hoipolloi]

4 hours ago, Howl said:

Where do they live, do you know?  

Pretty sure theyʻre in TN, within or near the Botkin compound.

It isnʻt clear if the business coach is advising on t-Rex Arms or on her real estate enterprise or both. 

[TRA]

https://www.facebook.com/SimpliciSoapFactory/videos/1081010549107237/

December 24, 2021: How many familiar faces do you see here?

[AdorableYam]

Hi! I was directed to this site after making a Reddit post last week asking about the Botkin family. I knew Kara in college and was absolutely shocked to find out what she married into when I creeped her new social media pages. All I can say is that Kara Botkin is an entirely different person than the Kara Dabbs I know. 

[Howl]

On 3/20/2023 at 7:59 PM, Columbia said:

They're like the difference between Doug Wilson and Mark Driscoll. Both are terrible people, but one has carefully built himself an empire in which he is untouchable, and the other simply thinks he's untouchable.

This is a simply brilliant observation.  Doug Wilson is Machiavellian to his core.  Driscoll is a thug.  Both are deeply into nepotism. 

1 hour ago, AdorableYam said:

Hi! I was directed to this site after making a Reddit post last week asking about the Botkin family. I knew Kara in college and was absolutely shocked to find out what she married into when I creeped her new social media pages. All I can say is that Kara Botkin is an entirely different person than the Kara Dabbs I know. 

Hello and welcome!  This is so interesting!  I wonder if she was exposed to super conservative people when she went to work and that influenced her thinking.  

I base this on a relative's brother-in-law who went from being solo self-employed to having new, very conservative co-workers. I can tell from his changing social media posts reflecting right-wing talking points  that his conservative co-workers (probably MAGA) are strongly influencing his way of viewing the political landscape.   

 

 

 

[Columbia]

4 hours ago, AdorableYam said:

Hi! I was directed to this site after making a Reddit post last week asking about the Botkin family. I knew Kara in college and was absolutely shocked to find out what she married into when I creeped her new social media pages. All I can say is that Kara Botkin is an entirely different person than the Kara Dabbs I know. 

Welcome! 

I think Kara has us all intrigued. I’m assuming, based on your surprise, that she was not big into fundamental dominionist Calvinism during her college days. Any ideas why she would marry into a high control family that frowns on college and “careerism” (except for selling real estate) for women?

[AdorableYam]

8 minutes ago, Columbia said:

Welcome! 

I think Kara has us all intrigued. I’m assuming, based on your surprise, that she was not big into fundamental dominionist Calvinism during her college days. Any ideas why she would marry into a high control family that frowns on college and “careerism” (except for selling real estate) for women?

When I first met Kara she was very anti-gun and a hardcore feminist. Her college boyfriend was also in engineering and she made it clear that she was probably going to make more money than him and that was fine as long as they were both making good money. The girl loved designer bags and I guess someone has to pay for that. He got her into the gun world because it was something he enjoyed and honestly I think she just wanted to be molded into something he desired. The guns, outdoorsy look, and Doberman all stemmed from this relationship. They were together for years and she eventually gave him an ultimatum to propose or end things. He chose to end things and I think she spiraled. So much of her personality was the same as her ex’s that I’m not sure what she was really like. With that being said I’m really torn about her marriage into the Botkin family. On one hand I fully believe that she knew who Lucas was and went after him for the money and fame, but I can also see where she could be heavily influenced by those things and willing to give up her engineering career just to fit in with someone. She knew as a chemical engineer that she would likely be working in the pulp and paper industry and hated it. I don’t think it would have taken much for her to stay home and do the real estate gig which she’s always been interested in, but now she’s got the funds to do it on a larger scale. She probably thinks she can move in and make him change to fit her ideals and it seems like she’s making steps towards that if they aren’t living in the compound and have hired a private chef. 

[AdorableYam]

4 hours ago, Howl said:

Hello and welcome!  This is so interesting!  I wonder if she was exposed to super conservative people when she went to work and that influenced her thinking.  

Her parents were very conservative, but I’m not sure to what extent. I just remember that she was living with her boyfriend of several years after they graduated from Auburn and she refused to tell her parents. She went to the extent of renting an apartment in Birmingham and furnishing it so that her parents could visit her there and not know that she was living with a man out of wedlock.

Edited June 1, 2023 by AdorableYam

[Columbia]

2 hours ago, AdorableYam said:

…He got her into the gun world because it was something he enjoyed and honestly I think she just wanted to be molded into something he desired… So much of her personality was the same as her ex’s that I’m not sure what she was really like… but I can also see where she could be heavily influenced by those things and willing to give up her engineering career just to fit in with someone.

Yikes. I can see how someone like that might be comfortable in a somewhat curly environment. I guess it’s fortunate for her that Geoff seems to be much more lax with Lucas, we assume because he holds the family purse strings. Though I still wonder if Geoff made him pay a “bride price” for Kara. 

[hoipolloi]

3 hours ago, AdorableYam said:

When I first met Kara she was very anti-gun and a hardcore feminist. Her college boyfriend was also in engineering and she made it clear that she was probably going to make more money than him and that was fine as long as they were both making good money.

Well, money is still a big if not the biggest priority for her, judging from her social media. She apparently works full time in real estate which seems to be the next biggest priority for her. 

Regardless of whatever is going on with Lucas & his family, she does not seem to be carrying out her FIL's priorities for Christian households, never mind the infamous 200-year plan. If she is, they are not topics she ever addresses on her social media.

[AdorableYam]

13 minutes ago, hoipolloi said:

Regardless of whatever is going on with Lucas & his family, she does not seem to be carrying out her FIL's priorities for Christian households, never mind the infamous 200-year plan. If she is, they are not topics she ever addresses on her social media.

I’m assuming this is also why she abandoned all of her old social media profiles too. I realized she hadn’t posted in a while and wanted to see what she was up to, which is what led me on this wild goose chase. There’s nothing crazy on there, but I’m assuming it wouldn’t be as squeaky clean as her in laws would want so she just started over. I have a feeling her FIL will be very disappointed because a big point of contention in her last relationship was that she did not want children while her boyfriend did. It will be interesting to see how it plays out.

[hoipolloi]

28 minutes ago, AdorableYam said:

I have a feeling her FIL will be very disappointed because a big point of contention in her last relationship was that she did not want children while her boyfriend did.

Interesting. As @Columbia said, though, it also appears that t-Rex Arms supports the whole family so it is unlikely that Geoff or anyone else will rock that financial boat as long as the money keeps coming in.