Botkin 3: Elizabeth Married!

[CyborgKin]

On 10/13/2022 at 1:28 PM, Columbia said:

I wish they would acknowledge some of the fallout from “So Much More” and “Return of the Daughters.” They have to know that Jasmine has completely repudiated it, and I’m sure they’ve been contacted by other girls and young women who were put in very vulnerable positions, or had their opportunities limited by that teaching. But they’ve never mentioned it, even when they do say they were wrong about some things in SMM. It’s like they don’t see how bad teachings can have consequences for other people that spill into their lives beyond bad theology. Ben recognized that and apologized generously and publicly. Why can’t they?

On one hand, RotD and Homeschool Dropouts getting my parents into being Botkin fans didn't help with me becoming someone who didn't leave home until age 36 and never thought I'd ever find a romantic relationship, though it was far from the only factor just one step in the middle of a long path.

On the other hand, when I first saw RotD my reaction was to be creeped out, look for people talking against them online, and to refind and eventually join FJ.  (I'd found it before briefly after a family friend showed us some Duggar episodes but I didn't stick around very long that time.)  And to turn against fundie-ism and increasingly many of their harmful ideologies and bigotries.  And to survive long enough to learn about myself, to transition into being an admittedly beautiful woman who's finally not afraid to say nice things about herself, to finally move out and very recently to cut my parents off completely.

And I have two amazing girlfriends who love and support me very much, and I them.  (and they each other and a lot of other people ❤️)

[CyborgKin]

On 10/30/2022 at 6:00 AM, Columbia said:

https://churchandfamilylife.com/resources/60ca663297de084c5325436e

So apparently the Botkinettes gave two talks at the NCFIC conference last year. The second one was a general rehashing of the topics they touched on in their first talk, and then they jumped into a strawman rebuke of religious deconstruction (though they didn't use that term) that just as widely missed the mark as their unfortunate blog posts about sexual abuse. 

This portion of the talk starts at 40:20. If you start at the beginning you can hear Scott Brown gush over Anna and Elizabeth for five minutes, chase all the men out so they won't accidentally learn something from a woman (teh horrors) and then announce that he's staying himself. Apparently he's holy enough that he can handle learning from a couple of women. Or maybe he knows everything already, and there's nothing they can teach him.

I transcribed, as best as possible, the section on "deconstruction."

Reading transcription+response posts on Botkin presentations was my favourite content before and around the time I joined FJ, so I really love seeing another one! Thanks for doing this.

[Howl]

On 10/29/2022 at 2:00 PM, Columbia said:

...you can hear Scott Brown gush over Anna and Elizabeth for five minutes, chase all the men out so they won't accidentally learn something from a woman (teh horrors) and then announce that he's staying himself. Apparently he's holy enough that he can handle learning from a couple of women.

Also, a strong reminder that there is no space where women can be without a patriarchal overseer to make sure they don't step out of bounds with any commentary concerning the inherent superiority of men and women's lesser status within the patriarchal paradigm. 

 Scottie Brown and Geoff's beliefs are utterly toxic for women and breed arrogance in men.  Anna Sofia and Elizabeth are intellectually and emotionally stunted and still spouting this drivel; I can't even imagine what life is like for Kelly these days.  As far as I know, Kelly continues to be silent on (public) social media and probably has a bazillion more kids with hubby #2.  

[Columbia]

2 hours ago, CyborgKin said:

Reading transcription+response posts on Botkin presentations was my favourite content before and around the time I joined FJ, so I really love seeing another one! Thanks for doing this.

You’re quite welcome. The first time I listened to this section my initial thought was “this is all going to be excuses, isn’t it?” At least they’ll always be predictable. 

[Columbia]

On 10/9/2022 at 9:30 PM, hoipolloi said:

He didn't even congratulate her ova. 

Look what I just found online. 
 

 

[hoipolloi]

2 hours ago, Columbia said:

Look what I just found online. 

Well, this explains it -- all the prayers went to Anna Sofia's ova, not Elizabeth's. 

[Bluebirdbluebell]

22 hours ago, hoipolloi said:

Well, this explains it -- all the prayers went to Anna Sofia's ova, not Elizabeth's. 

I don't what this explains, but it sounds really gross. 

[Columbia]

52 minutes ago, Bluebirdbluebell said:

I don't what this explains, but it sounds really gross. 

It’s in the first three or so minutes of the video. 

[hoipolloi]

4 hours ago, Bluebirdbluebell said:

I don't what this explains, but it sounds really gross. 

It is gross. It has also been snarked on here at FJ for years because it is one of Geoff Botkinʻs most infamous moments along with his 200-year plan for families. 

As @Columbia said, watch the first part of the video and youʻll hear the original right from the horse's ass mouth.

[Howl]

On 2/13/2023 at 5:28 PM, Columbia said:

Look what I just found online. 
 

 

I can't tell you how horrible this photo is -- a little girl carrying folded laundry -- and what that represents about her present and future life. 

Many women who grew up as sister moms in mega families were denied a childhood.  Some were worked so hard, so young that their health was destroyed and they are still struggling.  Being assigned a baby to care for when they were 7 or 8, being worken up for feedings and diaper changes, endless laundry and housework, no education, and a future that promised the same.  Horrible. Fortunately, some escaped.

[Columbia]

I always thought it was sad/telling that you can only see her eyes. She has no mouth, she has no voice, which I’m sure is how VF would have wanted it. (I’ve always wondered which VF hot shot’s daughter that is, and where she is now.)
 

It’s also a great contrast between AS and E’s later talks about “taking dominion” when they would say that girls can take dominion by helping their father and brothers in all their cool projects, and that it’s good for a girl to have a sense of adventure, we don’t know where we got the idea that girls have to stay home and cross stitch all day. But the official VF stuff says otherwise. 

[hoipolloi]

In which Lucas the LARPer is seriously mocked:

The comments are hilarious.

Edited March 16, 2023 by hoipolloi
Fixed formatting

[Howl]

1 hour ago, hoipolloi said:

The comments are hilarious.

Yes, and 100% critical - he's brutally ridiculed.  There was more than one tweet with this sentiment: 

 

[Columbia]

OP is Getting Dragged: The Musical

Poor Lucas. His parents' idea of education was telling their children that they can teach themselves anything they need/want to learn, and neglecting to remind them that sometimes it's best to learn from the professionals. Unless what he really learned from the professionals was simply how to dress up and cosplay à la DPIAT.

[Howl]

A few commenters Lucas fans (2 or 3) pointed out that Lucas is a "competition shooter" and the video wasn't meant to be a tactical instruction video.  Everyone else (presumably people trained in close urban combat) shot it down.

Edited March 16, 2023 by Howl

[NachosFlandersStyle]

11 hours ago, Columbia said:

Unless what he really learned from the professionals was simply how to dress up and cosplay à la DPIAT.

I mean, neither he nor most of the people commenting are in the military. This is by definition cosplay!

[Baba O'Riley]

One of the Botkins, I guess Lucas?  or whoever the gun guy is? was just on Tucker Carlson's show on Fox (don't look at me like that, someone else in the household is a fan!)  It was only for about 60 seconds, he  talking about T Rex. I walked in to the tv room while he was on so I didn't really realize it was him or what  was talking about until late in the clip.  I know that after the clip, Carlson said "That kid is smart." I guess I could rewind and see what else he was saying...but I won't. 

Edited March 17, 2023 by Baba O'Riley

[JermajestyDuggar]

30 minutes ago, Baba O'Riley said:

One of the Botkins, I guess Lucas?  or whoever the gun guy is? was just on Tucker Carlson's show on Fox (don't look at me like that, someone else in the household is a fan!)  It was only for about 60 seconds, he  talking about T Rex. I walked in to the tv room while he was on so I didn't really realize it was him or what  was talking about until late in the clip.  I know that after the clip, Carlson said "That kid is smart." I guess I could rewind and see what else he was saying...but I won't. 

If Fucker Carlson says someone is smart, I immediately will think the opposite of the person.

[Howl]

 "The Business of Guns." 

T.REX ARMS CEO Lucas Botkin shares how he took $1,000 and his trust in God and turned it into a multi-million dollar manufacturing and retail company in the firearms industry.

Watch HERE. 

[Baba O'Riley]

Thanks for the link, @Howl. Well, that was a LOT longer than the 60 seconds I thought it was!    I only watched about 12 minutes of the longer video but apparently it goes on for a half hour or so.  I don't think that whole recording was on the TC show. I guess the clip I saw on the show was a teaser for people to watch the longer video online.  Apparently, Lucas thinks his only siblings are his brothers, because he never mentions his two sisters, at least in the portion I watched. Wow, he is so full of himself.

A couple of take-aways, which I think we already knew:  None of the 7 Botkin spawn have a GED or any paper indicating they completed high school, because apparently they never did. They didn't even complete the home school high school program, apparently because their parents said they should basically teach themselves. 

He spent 7 years in New Zealand as a kid, because his father was a "visionary" who thought NZ could be transformed into a Christian state. (He didn't mention that his father planned on  leading the country.) Or something like that. But then he realized that it wasn't happening and they returned to the US..

He goes into great detail about how he started his business with $,1000 and that he has 80 employees. His business actually really grew during the early pandemic days. He  learned how to make holsters by watching some guy's you tube video.  He doesn't seem to feel guilty about stealing that guy's ideas because that guy is also doing well.

I might go back tomorrow to watch the rest of the video.  

Edited March 17, 2023 by Baba O'Riley
To add further details

[Howl]

Thanks for the warning, @Baba O'Riley.  I just found the clip but didn't watch it.  The Tucker Carlson Show requires a log in; this was on another website. 

[hoipolloi]

9 hours ago, Baba O'Riley said:

I might go back tomorrow to watch the rest of the video.  

Thanks for taking one for the team. I could only last through 3-4 minutes.

My takeaway: Lucas is a pompous git, just like his father. 

[hoipolloi]

Some interesting comments on the @lucastrexarms IG post about being on Tucker Carlson:

[JermajestyDuggar]

5 hours ago, hoipolloi said:

Some interesting comments on the @lucastrexarms IG post about being on Tucker Carlson:

Why are gun freaks some of the worst humans on the planet? 

[Columbia]

18 hours ago, Baba O'Riley said:

Apparently, Lucas thinks his only siblings are his brothers, because he never mentions his two sisters, at least in the portion I watched.

Lucas talks about his siblings the same way Geoff talks about his children in his YouTube videos. Geoff will regularly mention "my children" en masse if he's talking about homeschooling successfully, or if he's talking about TRex Arms. Sometimes he'll get more specific and talk about his sons in regards to something going on with TRex Arms. He's never specifically mentioned Ben's composing, and he's never referred to his daughters' doings once. He has "sons," and he has "children," and that's it. If you weren't familiar with the family you'd have no idea that he has two daughters.

Lucas mentions the family moving down to New Zealand and Y2K, which is way more hilarious having seen Julian Gregori's Y2K video. He also mentions Geoff's "consulting" work in Washington DC, but he doesn't seem to have any idea what his father was doing there either.

He talks about probably having ADHD and being lazy as a child. In reading between the lines in Victoria's homeschooling lectures it sounds like several of the sons have some degree of ADHD, and they probably got that from their father, judging by Geoff's rambling speeches and stream of half completed projects. Victoria always sounded very proud that she kept them out of the government schools and off of drugs, but how much stress and trouble and trauma might have been saved with some therapy and medication? If Lucas has a son whose ADHD is even more unmanageable than his, what is he going to to? Beat it out of him? (Probably.)

Lucas talks about how all his siblings share his views. Apparently he missed Audri's latest tweet about keeping an MP3 player with Rushdoony lectures away from her sons. He also says that he and his wife are planning on homeschooling their children. At the very least they'll get a stronger science education than Lucas and his siblings did, because theirs seemed to mostly consist of nature walks and looking at bugs under a microscope, according to Victoria's lectures.