(CW: CSA) Josh & Anna 46: Counting On - 16 Weeks Until Sentencing

[SassyPants]

3 hours ago, smittykins said:

Speaking of power tools, weren’t the Duggar kids over a certain age given power drills to help build the TTH?

I do remember photos of a bunch of young Duggars in the bed of a truck playing with rifles, and not the toy kind.

The Duggars are rules are in place for others, but not us, kind of people

[So-Virgin-It-Hurts]

21 minutes ago, feministxtian said:

I was very much a Rush Limbaugh, Traditional Catholic, conservative bitch at 31.

WHAT?! I am in shock.

[karenb4729]

27 minutes ago, HerNameIsBuffy said:

Yes she did.  I hoped it was a sign.  If she's ever going to shake off the blinders it will be due to anger, not grief.    I think allowing herself to really feel her anger would do her a world of good.

Before that someone needs to get the M's out of earshot.

I think she was mad because:

1. he got convicted (persecuted)

2. he was immediately placed in custody

3. because JB was mad so she was mad too. 

Negativity feeds off negativity and I think she follows whatever JB says.

[TXGirlInAMaterialWorld]

About JB's toupee- I wonder if he just started wearing it within the last year.  Didn't their house get hit with COVID around Christmas last year?  I know that I lost a lot of hair after having COVID my doc said  that he saw that with several patients with long hauler symptoms.  I haven't been able to smell anything in almost a year and my hair has thinned to the point I had to change my hairstyle.  

[Beermeet]

1 hour ago, feministxtian said:

Their husbands' support is incredible. Seems they aren't following the "party line" that it was the girls' fault b/c they "tempted" Smuggar (I refuse to use his name, my oldest son is also named Joshua and is everything Smuggar is not). The one that did blow my mind was and is Jill. I mean, secular therapy, marriage counseling, kids in public school? Nose ring, pants/shorts/tank tops...DAMN GIRL! I think she's the furthest out from the ATI/IBLP brainwashing and is still going forward. Yeah, they're still conservative Christians and have a few rotten notions, but I have faith they'll out grow many of them. I was very much a Rush Limbaugh, Traditional Catholic, conservative bitch at 31. Funny how a few years matures you. 

I think they are doing fantastic for what they were handed in life.  I'm happy their husband's have their backs.  We can nitpick them but, considering, they are not in a cult anymore.  They are conservative mainstream Christians like millions of other people.   I disagree with most of all those conservative Christians on quite a few topics but that Is allowed in life.  It's miles away from their upbringing.   

It is too bad they had to marry to get out but that can't be changed now so, no use thinking about it.  They aren't going with JB's narrative or ATI rules, that's big. Huge. 

I can't understand why JB allowed Derick and Jeremy especially.  We've pondered but who knows?  Ben too, but so far he's a wuss.  I guess. He's definitely a dick who should mind his own business and stop bothering and talking about gay people.  WTF.  He's by far the most entrenched even though we've seen him look pissed in that one episode.  He fell in line.   And, Jessa introduced Jeremy to Jinger!  Knowing he would be more exciting for her, like she wished.  But Jessa stayed big time.  

I will never understand these people!  

[feministxtian]

1 minute ago, Beermeet said:

I think they are doing fantastic for what they were handed in life.  I'm happy their husband's have their backs.  We can nitpick them but, considering, they are not in a cult anymore.  They are conservative mainstream Christians like millions of other people.   I disagree with most of all those conservative Christians on quite a few topics but that Is allowed in life.  It's miles away from their upbringing.   

 

My beliefs are on the conservative/traditional side BUT...those beliefs lead me in a different direction politically. Also my beliefs and understanding of the bible are formed by also delving into the history/culture of 1st century Israel, the biases in certain bible translations (like the KJV). However my religious tradition places great value on actually studying the bible, not just selected verses with preconceived notions. I was given a great book about HOW to study scripture, making great use of other references like commentaries, dictionaries, history books, even good documentaries. As a result, my "liberal" views on everything from homosexuality to abortion to "the welfare state" are all supported by my biblical beliefs. It pisses the fundies right the fuck off when you can argue them into oblivion over certain scriptures. 

 

[Free Jana Duggar]

Anyone hear anything about Jana being in trouble too?  Endangering a minor???  I don't see her deliberately doing something that could hurt a child. She's raised plenty. She knows how to take care of kids.

I'm thinking maybe she was watching Josh and Anna's kids and one of the little M&Ms got away, maybe... Anyone know?

[somanybooks]

I see Josiah being mentioned as the second child to be cut off from the paternal money tree. I assumed he’s been working for JB all along. Does anyone know what kind of work he does?

[QuiverFullofBooks]

10 minutes ago, Free Jana Duggar said:

Anyone hear anything about Jana being in trouble too?  Endangering a minor???  I don't see her deliberately doing something that could hurt a child. She's raised plenty. She knows how to take care of kids.

I'm thinking maybe she was watching Josh and Anna's kids and one of the little M&Ms got away, maybe... Anyone know?

You might check out Jana’s thread, where it’s been discussed extensively.

[Beermeet]

15 minutes ago, feministxtian said:

My beliefs are on the conservative/traditional side BUT...those beliefs lead me in a different direction politically. Also my beliefs and understanding of the bible are formed by also delving into the history/culture of 1st century Israel, the biases in certain bible translations (like the KJV). However my religious tradition places great value on actually studying the bible, not just selected verses with preconceived notions. I was given a great book about HOW to study scripture, making great use of other references like commentaries, dictionaries, history books, even good documentaries. As a result, my "liberal" views on everything from homosexuality to abortion to "the welfare state" are all supported by my biblical beliefs. It pisses the fundies right the fuck off when you can argue them into oblivion over certain scriptures. 

 

My grandmother started really delving into the Bible and history.  She was devout Catholic.  Unlike plenty of other Catholics that start studying like that, she became so much more chill and accepting.  It was really inspiring and beautiful.  

Religion can be so beautiful,  it's not like what fanatics make up.  To be so ridged is harmful to someone wishing to connect with the divine.  It's personal ultimately. 

18 minutes ago, somanybooks said:

I see Josiah being mentioned as the second child to be cut off from the paternal money tree. I assumed he’s been working for JB all along. Does anyone know what kind of work he does?

Where do you see this?!

[Many_Spaynes]

9 hours ago, HerNameIsBuffy said:

re: JD "Being a private or quiet person doesn't make someone a psychopath or a saint, it just means outsiders have a hard time reading them and nature abhors a vacuum so they fill in the missing data with baseless speculation."

Well, he filled that vacuum pretty nicely all by himself when he went all Confederate Pride.

[HerNameIsBuffy]

Body language vid looking at JB this time.

 

[somanybooks]

@Beermeet It was several pages ago following the post by a “source” who said there were two siblings who were not in support of Jim Bob’s narrative and are cut off from access to their siblings, funds and property investments. It’s assumed Jill is one of those two but there is speculation on who the other one is.

[EmCatlyn]

2 hours ago, Mlissmartin said:

I'd be pretty damn mad too when reality hit me in the face. Hopefully this is it, #FreeAnna

Is she angry at Josh or is she angry at the court that send Josh to jail?  If she is going to blame anyone other than Josh and his parents she is angry in the wrong direction for becoming “free.”

[EmCatlyn]

I changed my mind about what I was going to say.

Edited December 11, 2021 by EmCatlyn
Wrong place for my comment.

[forgetmenow]

John MacArthur's church and seminary has a record for minimizing abuse and mistreating victims. 

A GCC newsletter referred to a convicted pedophile who taught music and Bible at the school on church property (conviction held up on appeal) as a "missionary" to the prison in which he was doing his time.  They then shunned the guy's wife for then seeking "worldly" counseling for their kids.

Spoiler

Wartburg Watch also ran the horrific story of a rape victim who was horribly treated and ultimately punished for her rape at TMU.

All that to say, MacArthur's church and seminary seem like a more than toxic place for the Vuolos.

ETA: Apologies if this has been covered extensively in the Jinger threads (I'm only generally a Duggar reader when there's Big Breaking News), but I think MacArthur and GCC need to have spotlight on their abusive behavior as often as possible.

Edited December 11, 2021 by forgetmenow

[Dandruff]

2 hours ago, karenb4729 said:

I think she was mad because:

1. he got convicted (persecuted)

2. he was immediately placed in custody

3. because JB was mad so she was mad too. 

Negativity feeds off negativity and I think she follows whatever JB says.

I'm thinking before the conviction they were holding out a shred of hope and Josh was professing his love and appreciation for her support, promising to be the best husband and father, no shenanigans, straight and narrow, diligent provider, fresh start, no one else for him ever, lots more babies, she wouldn't have to go it alone, etc.  Doubt he'd have anything to lose by saying it and I can see her wanting to believe just one more time.  Then he was found guilty and she gets none of it....at least not any time soon.

[waltraute]

It'll be interesting now to see if Jim Bob funds an appeal what with family so publicly denouncing Josh and fully embracing his guilt. 

Also, how is Anna dealing with these statements? 

The biggest question mark for me is Michelle. What is going on with her? 

[Melissa1977]

12 hours ago, 3KidsAndStopped said:

Am I right in thinking Josh was the only child JChelle had before their full on Gothard conversion? Were his very early years slightly less strict? Was there a large shift in parenting style when Jana and JD were born? Those early years are so crucial for neurological development. He was only 2 when the twins were born, wasn't he?

He was younger than 2 years old. Michelle turned fundie when Josh was a baby and she miscarried, but she was already very conservative. I very much doubt she treated him differently than the twins. He got more attention as a baby, but it happens always with the firstborn. 

The big shift in parenting happened with the twin boys (child #9 and #10). Michelle started hitting babies (using blanket training) which is a red line even for strict parents. Once you hit a baby, I cannot imagine what other limits can be broken. 

22 minutes ago, waltraute said:

The biggest question mark for me is Michelle. What is going on with her?

She always looks in denial, like a robot IMO. I'm not going to defend her at all, she enjoyed the attenttion of having all those kids, and she was the one ignoring the children needs. But I wonder (I hope!) she knows that Josh is a monster and I hope that inside her there is still a soul feeling bad for what happened to her daughters.

 

Edited December 11, 2021 by Melissa1977
Spelling

[Melissa1977]

2 hours ago, somanybooks said:

@Beermeet It was several pages ago following the post by a “source” who said there were two siblings who were not in support of Jim Bob’s narrative and are cut off from access to their siblings, funds and property investments. It’s assumed Jill is one of those two but there is speculation on who the other one is.

Jill is not cut off from funds, she already received her part of the money. If she did it, other siblings could have done the same. Probably Jinger, because Jeremy loves money and I bet he hates being tied to Duggars. It was stated that Jinger was devastated because the abuse. In addition, it is easy to cut when you live far from the family. The other siblings are OK with the cult, or need the family, or are too young (there are still a bunch of minor Duggars!).

[RosyDaisy]

3 hours ago, Beermeet said:

Religion can be so beautiful,  it's not like what fanatics make up.  To be so ridged is harmful to someone wishing to connect with the divine.  It's personal ultimately. 

I wholeheartedly agree.  Fanaticism and hate taint that beauty.

[amendgitan]

7 hours ago, TXGirlInAMaterialWorld said:

About JB's toupee- I wonder if he just started wearing it within the last year.  Didn't their house get hit with COVID around Christmas last year?  I know that I lost a lot of hair after having COVID my doc said  that he saw that with several patients with long hauler symptoms.  I haven't been able to smell anything in almost a year and my hair has thinned to the point I had to change my hairstyle.  

I’ve thought he was bald for years. Back when he was using hairspray to create a helmet. You can tell by the way the part is so far on to one side of his head. 

[amendgitan]

3 hours ago, Melissa1977 said:

He was younger than 2 years old. Michelle turned fundie when Josh was a baby and she miscarried, but she was already very conservative. I very much doubt she treated him differently than the twins. He got more attention as a baby, but it happens always with the firstborn. 

The big shift in parenting happened with the twin boys (child #9 and #10). Michelle started hitting babies (using blanket training) which is a red line even for strict parents. Once you hit a baby, I cannot imagine what other limits can be broken. 

She always looks in denial, like a robot IMO. I'm not going to defend her at all, she enjoyed the attenttion of having all those kids, and she was the one ignoring the children needs. But I wonder (I hope!) she knows that Josh is a monster and I hope that inside her there is still a soul feeling bad for what happened to her daughters.

 

Frankly, she scares me more than JB. She is a zealot. I can easily see her bringing her flock of kids to watch a gay person being burned at the stake while telling them in her Professor Umbridge voice, “You see, children? This is what happens when you stray from God.”

[feministxtian]

8 hours ago, So-Virgin-It-Hurts said:

WHAT?! I am in shock.

Yup...Limbaugh, G. Gordon Liddy, even Fox news. Then reality hit me in the face. When my X kicked me and the kids out and I went to my parish priest for help and his response was "you need to go back and submit more and train the children to obey". Fuck that noise. Living in a minivan with 3 kids is a huge-ass wake up call. I went from a registered Republican to a Democrat and voted for Clinton in 2000. 

Now, I find my current beliefs are in line with my politics. I am still, in many ways, a very conservative Christian, theologically. But those beliefs are what informs my more liberal views. It'd take me forever to try to explain it...one day I'll try. 

[JermajestyDuggar]

My guess is that Michelle is not doing well mentally right now. I think she’s probably crying and reading her Bible at home all day. I feel really sorry for Josie having a birthday a day after the verdict. I just imagine Michelle looking vacant singing to her while everyone else tries to plaster a smile on their faces.