Harry & Meghan 8: Time's Most Insufferable

[Xanariel]

On 11/14/2021 at 4:34 PM, nelliebelle1197 said:

But the Obamas actually have ACCOMPLISHMENTS besides marrying an Englishman with a title.

Oh, both of the Obamas' CVs massively outweigh the Sussexes', and I suspect that would be a considerable factor in the volume of work they're able to produce and the justification for them inserting themselves into political discussions. 

I guess the closest equivalent would be Ivanka Trump at those big meetings with world leaders - technically, you have the right to, but there are serious questions about your qualifications to be there. 

Though it's kind of worse in a way when Meghan is so desperately milking her Duchess title when a large factor in the royal family's continuation is the perception that they're impartial (and therefore the Head of State's functions remain unchanging regardless of which party gets in).

Meghan can play coy that it's a  "humanitarian, not political" issue, but if Kate was doing any of this for the sake of better mental health provision (something with a lot of support across Parliament), Republic would have a field day. 

Edited November 16, 2021 by Xanariel

[viii]

19 hours ago, just_ordinary said:

But then, she turns around and used the same techniques against the BRF…. 

That's the frustrating thing here and I wish her PR or someone close to her would talk to them about this. Or perhaps someone has and they don't care. All the leaked emails between Jason and Meghan show that it doesn't really matter what the palace suggests, Meghan will do as she pleases. 

[just_ordinary]

43 minutes ago, viii said:

That's the frustrating thing here and I wish her PR or someone close to her would talk to them about this. Or perhaps someone has and they don't care. All the leaked emails between Jason and Meghan show that it doesn't really matter what the palace suggests, Meghan will do as she pleases. 

But you got it wrong - NOBODY helped her! Ever! She was left completely alone to deal with the hard life in a golden cage. 
Or so………… 

[Xanariel]

1 hour ago, viii said:

That's the frustrating thing here and I wish her PR or someone close to her would talk to them about this. Or perhaps someone has and they don't care. All the leaked emails between Jason and Meghan show that it doesn't really matter what the palace suggests, Meghan will do as she pleases. 

Perhaps it's something to do with the Markle family dynamics - which seem really ugly, regardless of how you slice it - that Meghan (and Harry) seems to really assume the worst of people not agreeing immediately with how she's doing things. 

It really struck me that, despite Meghan claiming otherwise in her interview, her staff in the emails seemed to be really trying to accomodate and protect her. 

[Coconut Flan]

1 hour ago, viii said:

That's the frustrating thing here and I wish her PR or someone close to her would talk to them about this. Or perhaps someone has and they don't care. All the leaked emails between Jason and Meghan show that it doesn't really matter what the palace suggests, Meghan will do as she pleases. 

Yet she gripes endlessly about the royal family controlling her life except for having a stylist.  If she'd had a stylist she should have fired her.  She wears too many things that don't fit or aren't properly tailored or put her under pinnings in a bad light.  No self-respecting stylist would let her go out like that. 

[viii]

2 hours ago, Xanariel said:

It really struck me that, despite Meghan claiming otherwise in her interview, her staff in the emails seemed to be really trying to accomodate and protect her. 

Yeah, I'm starting to think that unless the help offered lines up with what Meghan wants, it's like it doesn't exist. 

[Giraffe]

I'm still stuck on her making calls for US politicians using her UK title. Like, that's not how this works. 

[just_ordinary]

I am not as bothered by her using her title. It just makes her look desperately trying to scrape up any importance because her humanitarian profile is not exactly speaking for its own. It’s also not a problem for the BRF. They don’t represent them or the UK. They are the Markles of the RF and I think we all agree the Markles are some desperate hangers on. 
Do I think they use it for their own gain and look hypocritical? Yes. Stopping to use it would fit their whole public narrative better. But nothing they do actually justifies any action in taking it. I do think however they won’t have the title to the end or at least Archie will not be able to take it because I believe the BRF will reform this and lots of titles will fall back in the next 10-15 years.

What so find baffling is the acceptance of the US and how quickly they get sucked into the whole royal narrative. It’s like the complete opposite ideal of what the US tries to sell. Some really break over backwards to accommodate a Duke and Duchess completely ignoring the actual effect and power they have. I said before, it seems the US has fallen victim to the impoverished Prince scam. At one point they will wake up and realise it was some con man, tricking them into giving money and taking them in because they swore they are desperately in love with you.

[DalmatianCat]

57 minutes ago, just_ordinary said:

Do I think they use it for their own gain and look hypocritical? Yes. Stopping to use it would fit their whole public narrative better. But nothing they do actually justifies any action in taking it. I do think however they won’t have the title to the end or at least Archie will not be able to take it because I believe the BRF will reform this and lots of titles will fall back in the next 10-15 years.

So much of this disconnect must still be coming from the fact that I think Meghan was actually thrilled to marry into the royal family and be an “American Princess.” The adjustment was harder then she wanted it to be, and it was annoying that the RF wouldn’t let her use her new star status to make her own money, but I think she loved the title. 
While things didn’t work out the way Harry expected either, I do think he feels better about being “just Harry.” He had a lot of other issues with his life/family and Meghan was a nice catalyst to bring them up. 
I do think had Meghan married William instead of Harry, she might have been able to navigate the transition better. The transition was going to be rough no matter what…(I really think had she and Harry stuck it out for one more year they would have had a vastly different, more positive perspective) but she would have found a way to shine in a way that made her happy, but still fall in the acceptable guidelines that keep the royal family around.

[EmCatlyn]

7 hours ago, just_ordinary said:

What so find baffling is the acceptance of the US and how quickly they get sucked into the whole royal narrative. It’s like the complete opposite ideal of what the US tries to sell. Some really break over backwards to accommodate a Duke and Duchess completely ignoring the actual effect and power they have. I said before, it seems the US has fallen victim to the impoverished Prince scam. At one point they will wake up and realise it was some con man, tricking them into giving money and taking them in because they swore they are desperately in love with you.

😁😆😁

I love the analogy!  I had not noticed it before.  Some people in the US do respond to the Sussexes like that.  Hollywood celebrities in particular just gush with admiration as though just by existing and having “woke” opinions the Sussexes are conferring a favor on the human race.

I saw this morning that Ellen DeGeneris said that the Sussexes “do so much good.”  Huh?  They may do some good things, but “so much good”?  They speak up for certain causes, they donate a bit of money here and there… that’s about it.

As for the title, I think that it’s funny (ironic) that “call me Harry’s” wife is so set on identifying herself as the Duchess of Sussex. 🙄

[EmCatlyn]

6 hours ago, DalmatianCat said:

So much of this disconnect must still be coming from the fact that I think Meghan was actually thrilled to marry into the royal family and be an “American Princess.” The adjustment was harder then she wanted it to be, and it was annoying that the RF wouldn’t let her use her new star status to make her own money, but I think she loved the title. 
While things didn’t work out the way Harry expected either, I do think he feels better about being “just Harry.” He had a lot of other issues with his life/family and Meghan was a nice catalyst to bring them up. 
I do think had Meghan married William instead of Harry, she might have been able to navigate the transition better. The transition was going to be rough no matter what…(I really think had she and Harry stuck it out for one more year they would have had a vastly different, more positive perspective) but she would have found a way to shine in a way that made her happy, but still fall in the acceptable guidelines that keep the royal family around.

I can’t imagine Meghan marrying William, but I entirely agree with your main point.  She wanted the highest status possible, and in the BRF, that would be as the wife of the heir.  She might have been willing to compromise more if she were the future queen.

The funny thing about the Sussexes is that I think she was attracted to him because he was a Prince, and he was attracted to her because she was a commoner.  They may have found a nice compromise moving to California where they get admiration for being royal but Harry can pretend to be just folks. (That would be “rich folks” of course.)😉

[EmCatlyn]

Quote

An invitation has been extended to the Duke and Duchess of Sussex to join the rest of the royal family at Sandringham for Christmas, but they will not be attending, Page Six is told by multiple royal sources.

“There’s a lot that goes into the logistics and the planning of the family Christmas, so of course, staff know that Harry and Meghan are not coming,” one royal source told Page Six. “If they were, they would have communicated it to their family by now.” 
Page Six 11/17/21

Page Six reports that unnamed sources are concerned that Harry’s failure to be there will “break the queen’s heart” and that a major concern is that if the Sussexes wait until the Jubilee next summer to return, their return will “suck up the oxygen” from the celebrations.  

In short, everyone quoted by Page Six is subtly critical of H & M for not making the trip.  In contrast, Vanity Fair (who really likes the Sussexes), defends them.

Vanity Fair begins by arguing that no one  “familiar with the difficulties of air travel in the midst of a pandemic,” should be surprised that M & H may not make a transatlantic trip with the kids at this time.  I am not impressed.  They made it to New York, after all.  Vanity Fair seems to anticipate my reaction because they go on to say,

Quote

Though Meghan and Harry were able to travel to New York City twice this year, perhaps they can be forgiven for not boarding a transatlantic flight simply to avoid sucking “all the oxygen” if they do return next year.  
 

I love how it is no longer about making his grandmother happy and spending time with family.   The magazine goes on to suggest that given the tensions in the family, it is probably better for the Sussexes to stay in the US.

Quote

It seems like a long-awaited family reunion might actually be more stressful for everyone involved, especially for the queen, who has been facing issues with her health.
Vanity Fair 11/17/21

In any case,  we can probably conclude that the Sussexes  are not going to the UK for Christmas even though it appears they were invited.

[FrumperedCat]

Sounds like Meghan has hooked up another big interview. Not watched the trailer for it but sounds like it's another one mentioning how hard done by she was. Taking her car story with a pinch of salt.     https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2021/nov/18/meghan-markle-gives-surprise-interview-with-ellen-degeneres

[viii]

If I was Meghan's PR, I would have advised her against doing the Ellen interview. Ellen has received SO much backlash for being America's Bully and given the concerns towards Meghan right now, I just don't see the benefits of Meghan associating herself with Ellen right now. 

[DalmatianCat]

1 hour ago, viii said:

If I was Meghan's PR, I would have advised her against doing the Ellen interview. Ellen has received SO much backlash for being America's Bully and given the concerns towards Meghan right now, I just don't see the benefits of Meghan associating herself with Ellen right now. 

I think Meghan’s doing all the interviews she wished she’d gotten to do when she was an actress (because most of the cast of Suits—and the show itself—wasn’t actually popular enough to do a lot of press junkets or get on cool talk shows). It was probably mildly frustrating that once she was engaged to Harry and finally had a bigger spotlight she wasn’t allowed to do any interviews on the popular American shows.

Edited November 18, 2021 by DalmatianCat
Typo

[LilaMae]

3 hours ago, viii said:

If I was Meghan's PR, I would have advised her against doing the Ellen interview. Ellen has received SO much backlash for being America's Bully and given the concerns towards Meghan right now, I just don't see the benefits of Meghan associating herself with Ellen right now. 

The PR firm Sunshine Sachs represents both Meghan and Ellen. Maybe they arranged it to allow Meghan to have an easy PR-type interview rather than having to face a different talk show host who would undoubtedly ask some very difficult questions about recent events.

[viii]

Oooh, thanks for that, @LilaMae. That makes a lot of sense. 

[just_ordinary]

Re Wiliam & Meghan: I think anyone that married Wiliam would have had a tad of an easier time. Still lots to learn, still tons of mean headlines BUT I do think preparing your next Queen to be is definitely more important than someone way down the line. If you look at all the spouses of the heir and the ones of the spare it’s a similar picture throughout Europe. Also, bashing the newbie for a year or four is not exactly new. You have to have a thick skin and just ignore the bad stuff, because sooner or later they wake up and adore you for the next few years. It’s a never ending cycle. Happens to everyone in the public light. 
 

Re the car story: a car has at least one but I think in that case actually three other passenger doors. Why not unlock it manually and use one of them? Sorry I call BS or rather exaggerated to the point of completely unbelievable.

Re Ellen: I don’t get why she did it. Honestly. Ellen’s show is to make a bit of a fool out of her guests and reveal shooting “inside scoops” in exchange for self promotion and/or flogging your newest project. I don’t have a problem if she turns up at public stages, panels, renowned(!) programs to promote her charity work or support humanitarian issues close to her heart (if she would only pick one and stick with it). But Ellen is like giving up all the pretence and welcoming the celebrity lifestyle, endless self promoting and playing the tabloid game and all. Either you keep your children and your personal life private or not. But dangling the carrot in front of the donkey will only lead to intrusion.

Also, those earpiece “jokes” are embarrassing for everyone involved- but Ellen.

And yes, the headline will write itself about the two most popular bullies teaming up.

Strategically, that was a bad decision. At least if you are serious of shutting down those speculations and really build the professional do-gooder/angelic humanitarian/Martyr profile.

Edited November 19, 2021 by just_ordinary

[Smash!]

To me it looks like she wants to be a celebrity at all costs. Privacy please! But it‘s okay if pictures show up on People magazine (the Wimbledon incident where she cleared all seats around her and I think someone in her vicinity wasn‘t even allowed to take pictures of the game. The pictures of Meghan sitting there were on People afterwards). 

I was excited when H&M‘s relationship was announced because I thought it was cool that a biracial woman would be part of the very white and almost old fashioned RF. She seemed very modern.

[viii]

13 hours ago, just_ordinary said:

Also, bashing the newbie for a year or four is not exactly new. You have to have a thick skin and just ignore the bad stuff, because sooner or later they wake up and adore you for the next few years. It’s a never ending cycle. Happens to everyone in the public light. 

But Ellen is like giving up all the pretence and welcoming the celebrity lifestyle, endless self promoting and playing the tabloid game and all. Either you keep your children and your personal life private or not. But dangling the carrot in front of the donkey will only lead to intrusion.

Kate received hate for SO many years. Her family, especially her mom and sister, also received it. It wasn't until Meghan arrived on the scene that suddenly the tide turned and Kate was suddenly the best thing to happen to William. If Meghan had stuck it out for a bit, eventually someone else would have come on to the scene and taken the heat off her. However, I can understand why she didn't want to wait that long - I can't imagine it would be easy to be in either of their positions. 

They claimed that they wanted privacy but any time they need some good PR, they bring out an Archie story and it just rubs me the wrong way. If you want privacy and that's why you chose to leave the institution, that's fine, but then you need to stick with it. It's becoming more and more obvious that they wanted the fame/recognition without any of the work. 

I am surprised that they haven't shown a picture of Lilibet yet. Perhaps they're saving that for when their reputations are truly in the toilet. 

2 hours ago, Smash! said:

I was excited when H&M‘s relationship was announced because I thought it was cool that a biracial woman would be part of the very white and almost old fashioned RF. She seemed very modern.

She had a lot of promise. She had the chance to really do some good but it's gone awry and I don't think there's any coming back for her. She has burnt her bridges when it comes to the goodwill of the RBF. 

[Coconut Flan]

24 minutes ago, viii said:

She had a lot of promise. She had the chance to really do some good but it's gone awry and I don't think there's any coming back for her. She has burnt her bridges when it comes to the goodwill of the RBF. 

Speaking of bridge burning - has she no advisers to remind her that stunts should not be her thing?

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-10220737/Social-media-explodes-memes-mocking-Meghan-Markles-appearance-Ellen-Degeneres-Show.html

[zee_four]

6 hours ago, Coconut Flan said:

Speaking of bridge burning - has she no advisers to remind her that stunts should not be her thing?

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-10220737/Social-media-explodes-memes-mocking-Meghan-Markles-appearance-Ellen-Degeneres-Show.html

While I'm not a fan of the DailyFail, the social media accounts they quoted hit the nail on the head with her not understanding nor wanting to understand the difference between royalty and celebrity. That sums up her Hollywood diva like behavior, before during and after her time with the BRF, quite well.

[Jackie3]

On 11/19/2021 at 2:41 PM, zee_four said:

While I'm not a fan of the DailyFail, the social media accounts they quoted hit the nail on the head with her not understanding nor wanting to understand the difference between royalty and celebrity. That sums up her Hollywood diva like behavior, before during and after her time with the BRF, quite well.

Making fun of a woman for not behaving as she should. . . .that's about as sexist as it comes. 

It's 2021, but women are still supposed to act a certain way, and certainly not like a "diva." If they don't, they pay the price. 

Sexism. That's the people's problem with Meghan Markle. But it's hidden behind complaints like "needs to know the difference between royalty and celebrity."

Edited November 22, 2021 by Jackie3

[zee_four]

45 minutes ago, Jackie3 said:

Making fun of a woman for not behaving as she should. . . .that's about as sexist as it comes. 

It's 2021, but women are still supposed to act a certain way, and certainly not like a "diva." If they don't, they pay the price. 

Sexism. That's the people's problem with Meghan Markle. But it's hidden behind complaints like "needs to know the difference between royalty and celebrity."

Actually my problem is she is so privileged she is laughably out of touch with the issues she claims she advocates, that she thinks the reality of working class especially BIPOC American women is fodder for her Hollywood LA LA land experience qnd popularity. Just because she's a woman doesnt mean any legitimate criticism of her is "sexist", its not different than when Ivanka shills some fake attempt at relatability in an attempt for women's votes.  Insulting the intelligence of women believing we'll blindly follow someone with the same gender identity regardless of what they spew is sexist.

MM takes it a step further when she makes up stories of some sort of "rough" childhood to dish on LA talk shows, that anyone with access to the Wayback Machine can see doesnt add up. On top of that every single thing she does claiming to advocate for women is detrimental to what she claims she's trying to achieve and only helps her get her name in the tabloids. Using private phone numbers and calling GOP Congresswoman as the "Duchess of Sussex", treating these professional working women like subjects who should listen to her solely for a having a British royal title she refused to do the related work for? I may not agree with those Congresswoman but they deserve more respect than the stunt MM pulled. And what did it accomplish? She got to pretend to be Michelle Obama (which is also insulting to a black woman who worked her ass off and has put in the blood sweat and tears and whose work has made an actually difference and who faced criticism almost solely for her race and gender), but only in her own head and meanwhile made a laughing stock out of paid family leave to the individuals who have the power to give this desperately needed benefit to millions of American women but who are far less likely to after being set up and patronized by a rich Hollywood B... C... lister and BRF drop out who represents herself as first and foremost the DoS. For many women who desperately need such a thing, she's lived a charmed, privileged life, with private schools, fancy LA dinners with her Hollywood father, her studies abroad paid for by her parents etc. The details of her stories about growing up poor are even more insulting because they're based off ravist and classiest stereotypes and worse, they almost never match reality. She's making up stories in such a pass poor way, her own past blogs contradict most of her claims directly. And why? So she can pretend to slum it which is insulting to working class Americans, especially working class BIPOC women? She's play acting at the very real, very difficult, day in and day out reality of these women who don't get to step away to a life of luxury when away from talk show cameras.

If she really cared about the issues she claims to be a leader for, she would actually put her money where her mouth is. She would donate some of her millions to organizations that have a track record of helping, many staffed by professional working women. Whether it's helping fund childcare centers for working class mothers, giving money to charities to help working class women with babies in the NICU or other postpartum emergencies that prevent them from working which means they can't feed their other children, pay rent and more. There are people who dedicate their lives or at least their careers to actually doing something about the issue, whether its funding political groups that know how to successfully and respectfully engage bipartisan Congresspeople, or its directly helping the women who are suffering right now because there is no PFL. Her assumptions of being some sort of figurehead for these movements while so disrespectfully and inconsistently engaging with nothing more than photo ops, is messed up on so many levels. 

Instead she pitches a few lines of her "philanthropy " in between acting like a fool with no regard to the actual minimum wage working class people that were working those booths and had no choice but to be made fools of on TV because two rich bullies thought it'd be like funzies. 

The final straw is when anyone criticizes MM for legitimate reasons she pulls the sexist and racist card, when she's using her privilege to make a joke of the issues millions of women, especially those who are BIPOC, face. That response only makes more of a joke of the real issues of sexism and racism that exist. I see my indigenous family struggle everyday, especially the women, and the US is fucked up enough as is without MM handing the alt right GOP more ammunition against the working class, BIPOC and women.

[LilaMae]

I agree @zee_four about Meghan's lack of understanding of her own privilege. Her attempts to invent a poor, working-class background for clout is disrespectful of people living and raising their children in actual poverty. 

Unfortunately, this lack of understanding carries over into her philanthropic work. Meghan seems stuck in the 90s with how she handles her charitable endeavours, there was a lot less knowledge then about best practice for delivering charity and how to best meet the needs of recipients.

For one example, the 40x40 thing she did for her birthday (where she got 40 friends to sign up to giving a 40 minute "session" to women who lost their jobs during the pandemic). Her birthday video to introduce the scheme was almost entirely about Meghan and riffing off her Duchess status, with the actual charitable purpose only briefly mentioned near the end of the video. The video itself was filmed with Meghan as the focus in her large mansion, which doesn't seem very appropriate since it's about women in poverty. On her website, there was no mention of how women could sign up for one of these sessions. But even worse, there was no thought given to how the women recipients would actually benefit from these sessions (mentoring doesn't usually just take 40 minutes), how the celebrity friends were in any way qualified to deliver them, and there was a lack of understanding for the reasons that women were actually unemployed. In many cases, it was because their entire industry shut down, or they had to provide childcare/homeschooling and couldn't work alongside it. A 40 minute session with a celebrity cannot help that situation, or indeed, many situations. Since Meghan's birthday, I haven't been able to find any updates on how these sessions have gone, or even if they took place. 

So yes, it is very irritating that Harry and Meghan have set themselves up as "philanthropists" without doing the work to understand what real help looks like. This is one of my main issues with Meghan and I don't think calling out this kind of behaviour (which Harry is very much guilty of too) is sexism. 

However, I do disagree with @zee_four on one thing- I don't think they have enough money to donate millions. Harry famously moaned on Oprah about how he only had a few million left from his mother, Meghan was never a big earner from Suits, and they have a very big mansion in an expensive US state. People upthread have already talked about how the Netflix/Spotify deals wouldn't just hand out millions without having the work to show for it. They have plenty of money compared with us peasants, but perhaps not for the lifestyle they're trying to lead.