Gwen Shamblin Lara 16: Remnant after Gwen [Gwen and other RF leaders dead in plane crash]

[Satan'sFortress]

17 hours ago, Bluebirdbluebell said:

DO NOT BRING

NO weapons of any Kind ( Gun, Knives, Pocket Knives, Mace)

Large Cooler

There will be a full security detail check point prior to entry

Taking a little detour here, but why on earth can you not bring weapons to a MAGA rally?

[SilverBeach]

Just now, SilverBeach said:

Yes, it was a very good post. It was clear that their Gothard experience informed their views toward the RF cult. 

 

[FiveAcres]

1 minute ago, Satan'sFortress said:

Taking a little detour here, but why on earth can you not bring weapons to a MAGA rally?

Good point. Perhaps it is a requirement of the venue?

[JermajestyDuggar]

What is unfortunate is that I don’t believe 7 deaths of high up cult leaders will actually bring the church down in any meaningful way. I think they will still teach all the same things and still hurt many families in the process. 

[SilverBeach]

8 hours ago, J'Lurker said:

I think they are just introducing some reasons they lurk on FJ and are passionately anti-fundamentalist/cult with the BG connection.

I don't understand why this even needs saying on this anti-fundie site. 

[Sarcastically spinster]

2 minutes ago, JermajestyDuggar said:

What is unfortunate is that I don’t believe 7 deaths of high up cult leaders will actually bring the church down in any meaningful way. I think they will still teach all the same things and still hurt many families in the process. 

RF is such a cult of personality, though.  They may do a hard pivot to memorializing Gwen and be able to hold it together that way, but so often cults of personality largely fall apart as soon as the dominant personality is absent/disgraced (witness VF and the fall of DP).  You still have a faithful few hold it together, but it typically shrinks pretty considerably.  The teachings probably won't change, but how much power will they have without Gwen as prophet?

[JermajestyDuggar]

4 minutes ago, Sarcastically spinster said:

RF is such a cult of personality, though.  They may do a hard pivot to memorializing Gwen and be able to hold it together that way, but so often cults of personality largely fall apart as soon as the dominant personality is absent/disgraced (witness VF and the fall of DP).  You still have a faithful few hold it together, but it typically shrinks pretty considerably.  The teachings probably won't change, but how much power will they have without Gwen as prophet?

I definitely think they will lose some that were there only for Gwen. But this cult is pretty old if you think about it. There are people in their 20s that grew up in it. They aren’t in it for Gwen only. They are in it because they were raised in it. The folks that moved to Brentwood in the last few years for Gwen are much more likely to leave in the next year. But there are plenty that have been in this cult for many years. Their lives are this cult.

[SilverBeach]

1 minute ago, JermajestyDuggar said:

What is unfortunate is that I don’t believe 7 deaths of high up cult leaders will actually bring the church down in any meaningful way. I think they will still teach all the same things and still hurt many families in the process. 

Just like Scientology and other cults survive the deaths of their founders, there's too much money and power at stake to pass up for other narcissistic abusive folks not to take over when they can.

Gwen was grandiose and felt she was some kind of prophet, and as such was under the special protection of God. So she could disregard prudent business practices such as not having all leadership on one flight (some parents won't even fly together on much, much safer commercial flights). Probably no formal succession plan. I agree with another poster who said Gwen would judge others for dying in this manner, but the cult will put a righteous spin on this violent end for their entire leadership team. And the cult members will eat that shit right up.

I despised her and her entire cult. To find out they were MAGATS doesn't surprise me, and just adds to their despicability. So yes, it was rather shocking when I found out about the crash on Saturday night, because I snarked mightily on Gwen and loved the daily summary of her repetitive journals. But no sadness here, sorry not sorry. She was just another con artist who acquired riches by bilking the gullible and vulnerable. It's always bad for children to lose parents, like those poor immigrant children heartlessly separated from their parents by their MAGAT leader, whom I'm sure they never gave a second thought.

I know nothing about aviation except how to buy a plane ticket, so thanks to all who are knowledgeable and share that information here. 

15 minutes ago, Sarcastically spinster said:

RF is such a cult of personality, though.  They may do a hard pivot to memorializing Gwen and be able to hold it together that way, but so often cults of personality largely fall apart as soon as the dominant personality is absent/disgraced (witness VF and the fall of DP).  You still have a faithful few hold it together, but it typically shrinks pretty considerably.  The teachings probably won't change, but how much power will they have without Gwen as prophet?

Scientology was a cult of personality too. They still revere L Ron Hubbard. Gwen will be like him, becoming even more godlike in death than she was in life. Cults, especially well-organized and rich ones, will double down after their founder dies. 

[nelliebelle1197]

1 hour ago, MamaJunebug said:

@AirBeagle,

Thank you for your introductory post. Very enlightening & educational. I read it all the way through - and probably will refer to it again. Good to have all that info in one place. 
 

 

 

Read his second post because it is a doozy and he yells at @hoipolloi and acts like a jerk.

[RFfamANON]

I was thinking this morning  that remaining RF leaders might claim that Gwen didn't die but that she went straight to heaven like Enoch and Elijah who are said in scripture to have been taken into heaven while still alive and not experiencing physical death. Anyone have any other thoughts about how the cult might spin this to the members to try to hold on to power?  Perhaps Gwen speaking to or thru Elizabeth or Elle?

Edited May 31, 2021 by RFfamANON

[nelliebelle1197]

Just now, RFfamANON said:

I was thinking this mornin  that remaining RF leaders might claim that Gwen didn't die but that she went straight to heaven like Enoch and Elijah who are said in scripture to have been taken into heaven while still alive and not experiencing physical death. Anyone have any other thoughts about how the cult might spin this to the members to try to hold on to power?  Perhaps Gwen speaking to or thru Elizabeth or Elle?

What are the beliefs on death? Do we have any idea if there are any ... um... unique views? 

[SilverBeach]

3 minutes ago, nelliebelle1197 said:

Read his second post because it is a doozy and he yells at @hoipolloi and acts like a jerk.

I did read it. The language was colorful, but the offense was warranted. 

[nelliebelle1197]

13 minutes ago, SilverBeach said:

I did read it. The language was colorful, but the offense was warranted. 

Offense? Hoi committed  an offense? 
 

The answer was rude and uncalled for. If he disagreed, there are other ways to do it. Someone disagreed with me yesterday on something we could have discussed with the addition of an eye roll emoji. If she had not added that, the conversation would have been completely different. People need to grow up.

Edited May 31, 2021 by nelliebelle1197

[RFsurvivor]

48 minutes ago, JesusPony said:

It's a common name, but I think the David Martin who had the "showdown" with a 2-year-old is the same David Martin from the crash.

Also, I should have included a content warning for that video because of the child abuse the church members discuss flippantly.

It is the same David Martin

[Sarcastically spinster]

26 minutes ago, RFfamANON said:

I was thinking this morning  that remaining RF leaders might claim that Gwen didn't die but that she went straight to heaven like Enoch and Elijah who are said in scripture to have been taken into heaven while still alive and not experiencing physical death.

It will be harder to spin that way if physical remains are recovered.  

[FiveAcres]

The Friendly Atheist covers the crash.

https://friendlyatheist.patheos.com/2021/05/31/gwen-shamblin-lara-a-diet-guru-who-led-a-christian-cult-died-in-a-plane-crash/

New to me from the article:

Shamblin may have been best known for her admission that she formed her views on dieting by looking at pictures of Jews during the Holocaust. She once told CNN’s Larry King, “How in the Holocaust did you have all these people getting down real skinny? They ate less food.” She elaborated to a reporter in an article published in the New Yorker: “What person genetically predisposed to obesity was in there, out of the millions and millions that died? When they ate less food, they became emaciated.”

The more I find out about her, the uglier she becomes. 

[RFSurvivor_2]

Just now, FiveAcres said:

The Friendly Atheist covers the crash.

https://friendlyatheist.patheos.com/2021/05/31/gwen-shamblin-lara-a-diet-guru-who-led-a-christian-cult-died-in-a-plane-crash/

New to me from the article:

Shamblin may have been best known for her admission that she formed her views on dieting by looking at pictures of Jews during the Holocaust. She once told CNN’s Larry King, “How in the Holocaust did you have all these people getting down real skinny? They ate less food.” She elaborated to a reporter in an article published in the New Yorker: “What person genetically predisposed to obesity was in there, out of the millions and millions that died? When they ate less food, they became emaciated.”

The more I find out about her, the uglier she becomes. 

Just wait until the documentary releases.

[EmmieJ]

@AirBeagle, welcome long time lurker.  Thank you for your informative post.  I learn so much from other FJers.

[Destiny]

1 hour ago, Satan'sFortress said:

Taking a little detour here, but why on earth can you not bring weapons to a MAGA rally?

Rules for me and not for thee. Obviously. The hypocrisy is strong in those circles. 

Re: our new mansplainer with an over fondness for formatting, I will point out the ax murderer rule. Just because someone presents themselves as an expert doesn't mean they are. I was able to find several inaccuracies in the statements provided based on my own research yesterday. Take what you see on the internet with a grain of salt please, and double check where warranted. 

Edited May 31, 2021 by Destiny

[Xan]

Like everyone else, I feel terrible for the survivors and the children.  Whatever these people might have believed, to a child a parent is everything.  For those children who lost both parents at one time, this is a complete tragedy.   

As for Gwen, I'm more angry than anything.  I hoped she'd be brought down by some scandal or an investigation into her finances.  I would have much preferred her being alive and financially ruined than to be deceased and deified.  Well, she could have stayed in Tennessee attending her flock.  Instead, she wanted to fly on her private plane to a MAGA rally.  I'm just glad that Elizabeth wasn't coerced into going along.

There are people in and on that chilly lake today who, I'm sure, would prefer to be spending the day with their families.  Instead, they're pulling up debris and human remains.  They must be good people because I doubt any amount of pay is enough to cover this kind of horror.  

Beyond not having Gwen around to preach and enrich herself, the only other obvious benefit here is that the stories are floating up about the church's uglier beliefs.  I hope the information spreads regarding child abuse.  And I want them to start using more recent pictures of Gwen with the big hair and the platform heels just to show how foolish she looked.  The church can survive without Gwen but it has been a cult of personality.  Gwen was able to spin things because she was the founder and a "prophet".  If they can't counter the bad press, it's going to make it harder to draw in any new members.

[Destiny]

4 minutes ago, Xan said:

Like everyone else, I feel terrible for the survivors and the children.  Whatever these people might have believed, to a child a parent is everything.  For those children who lost both parents at one time, this is a complete tragedy.   

As for Gwen, I'm more angry than anything.  I hoped she'd be brought down by some scandal or an investigation into her finances.  I would have much preferred her being alive and financially ruined than to be deceased and deified.  Well, she could have stayed in Tennessee attending her flock.  Instead, she wanted to fly on her private plane to a MAGA rally.  I'm just glad that Elizabeth wasn't coerced into going along.

This perfectly encapsulates my feelings on the matter. I feel genuinely awful for the people who loved the people on that plane. At the same time, I don't think those people were good people who make the world a better place. Two things can be true at once in this case. 

I remain horrified, but unsurprised, that not only was she GOING to a MAGA rally, but that she bloody was sponsoring it. Yuck. 

[MamaJunebug]

12 minutes ago, FiveAcres said:

The Friendly Atheist covers the crash.

https://friendlyatheist.patheos.com/2021/05/31/gwen-shamblin-lara-a-diet-guru-who-led-a-christian-cult-died-in-a-plane-crash/

New to me from the article:

Shamblin may have been best known for her admission that she formed her views on dieting by looking at pictures of Jews during the Holocaust. She once told CNN’s Larry King, “How in the Holocaust did you have all these people getting down real skinny? They ate less food.” She elaborated to a reporter in an article published in the New Yorker: “What person genetically predisposed to obesity was in there, out of the millions and millions that died? When they ate less food, they became emaciated.”

The more I find out about her, the uglier she becomes. 

Like "emaciated" is what we're all aiming for!

She saw images of human beings who were standing, despite being literally skeletons covered in skin, and she called that "good."

Those human beings had been denied food by their captors.

She boasted at one time (at least) of denying food to her hungry, young daughter, who as an adult looks pretty darned skeletal.

I've refrained from calling the deceased woman "evil" because "mote in your own eye" and "don't speak ill of the dead" and all that.  But my self-restraint ends here.
 

3 minutes ago, Destiny said:

This perfectly encapsulates my feelings on the matter. I feel genuinely awful for the people who loved the people on that plane. At the same time, I don't think those people were good people who make the world a better place. Two things can be true at once in this case. 

I remain horrified, but unsurprised, that not only was she GOING to a MAGA rally, but that she bloody was sponsoring it. Yuck. 

WTAF?! I'd gotten the point that she was going to some event, but oh. my. g-d.

Let's see if the MAGAts spin this as an assassination.  Would not put it past them.

Had seriously not realized RF was aligned with that crap, too.  

[SassyPants]

2 hours ago, MamaJunebug said:

“His dietician wife” gave me an ironic vibe. If only that were the sum of it.

Then, “who founded a weight-loss church.”  Oh, my. Leave it to the BBC to present a whole new angle - where the death of the TV actor leads, and the tragedy of a cult is ... dismissed? ... in under a dozen words. 
 

I say this not to criticize the BBC but to reflect on how “news” gets defined in different places, cultures, corporations. 
 

That is all.

Still heartsick for the orphaned children. And for all the children whose lives are mangled by cults. 

Jesus and weight loss all at once- money, money, money-

[MamaJunebug]

9 minutes ago, SassyPants said:

Jesus and weight loss all at once- money, money, money-

Yep ... and in retrospect, kudos to BBC for calling it exactly what it was/is: not a church to worship G-d, but a weight-loss scheme packaged into a 501(c)3.

 

Story: Think it was the early 2000s that the Lutheran church where I'd been confirmed in the 1960s, promoted Weigh Down.  By then I'd heard that the WD founder was accused of denying the divinity of Jesus and wondered what had gotten into the congregation leaders, to allow that program within its walls.

Decades later, it makes sense: That congregation was upper-middle-class and striving, so to speak.  Women there would have been more interested that most in becoming very thin and thus stylish, visibly upwardly mobile.

 

(Navel-gazing commences here, you've been advised.  But I have to write it down.

Spoiler

  Guess it's okay that BDJB moved our memberships somewhere else, after my confirmation, after all.  (I had missed seeing my friends, is all.  And BMJB was skinny as a reed naturally, also beautiful, but never ever a social climber. Yeah .... after all this time, that's one little resentment against BD that I can surely let go!)

 

Edited May 31, 2021 by MamaJunebug

[WorseThan1Thinks]

Super interesting video on what this guy thinks happened with the plane/piloting.  He does such a good job showing mistakes/issues just from the couple minutes of ATC recordings.

A few quotes:

"This is Tarzan and Jane"

"Gwen has the money.  Gwen is the money banks on this thing.  Joe is a worn out, used up actor.  But he is a pilot."

"This guy, Joe Lara, had no business in this jet."  (in regards to the weather conditions and his experience).

(Based on Joe's communication/verbiage with the tower) "He might have an instrument rating, but he knows just barely enough to be dangerous."

"Now at this point the plane is doing about 300 knots.  The VNE (Never Exceed speed) on this thing is 261."

"He probably pulled it apart in flight.  He over sped the airplane is my first guess."  (Alluding they'll probably find plane parts from flying too fast that came off before the crash). 

"This all has to do with pilot personality."   

"Well, you're flying with Tarzan.  Yea, Tarzan.  He has plenty of money.  He can buy a $200,000 jet, put seven people in it and go make a takeoff.  He's not a professional, he's not a jet pilot.  He looked good swinging through trees from vines, but he's not a jet pilot.  And he proved that to us today." 

 

 

Edited May 31, 2021 by WorseThan1Thinks
typos