Meghan and Harry: Royal Baby

[tabitha2]

No. They were two people and many many people around them who tried to force or coax what was never meant to be in the first place from almost completely incompatible personality’s.  He had his issues and she had hers. I just think The Windsor’s wanted it and tried to make it work more than Diana ever did.  He was/is a good  father by Diana’s own admission and it’s a fact he has never said a bad word in public against her and if talk is true won’t allow others too as well.  After they separated they were on peaceful terms. 

Edited May 18, 2019 by tabitha2

[Palimpsest]

1 hour ago, tabitha2 said:

Ha! As her father succinctly put it: Unless it eats carrots and farts Anne is not interested in it. 

I think he said that when she was a teenager. 

But he was wrong.  Anne has buckled down, found things not equine that interest her, and is now one of the hardest working royals,  In royal duties and time spent on the job she's often outstripped Charles.  She earned the title of Princess Royal although she's had her own divorce, scandals, and less than wonderful moments.  Many of them.

But she is like Boxer in Animal Farm.  If things get bad, she says "I will work harder!"  And she'll probably say that until Charles becomes King and consigns her to the glue factory.

She's brave, she's acerbic,, she doesn't suffer fools or foolishness gladly, and she has the tact of the average rhino.  But she does work hard.  And royalling didn't come naturally to her.

I doff my hat to Anne.  I think she has always out-royaled churlish Charles.   YMMV.

Edited May 18, 2019 by Palimpsest

[HerNameIsBuffy]

11 hours ago, tabitha2 said:

They could have potentially found a cause they both wanted to tackle but she had no interest in nature and at the beginning of the marriage she liked... clothes? I really don’t know actually. Her activism came later. 

Because she was a teenager.  A teenager.

And it's on her that she wasn't as emotionally developed as man in his 30's.

And no, I don't think it's healthy for in-laws to be involved in a marriage.  I think that's a sign of very dysfunctional lack of boundaries.

Idk anything about her personally or her childhood, but if she were as fragile as you claim then shame on him for using her the way he did.  That's straight up predatory.

Clearly you have a vested interest in defending this man, for reasons I can't possibly understand, but for me it's about the predatory and exploitative dynamic which isn't too dissimilar from what we see in many fundy families and it's disheartening to see a woman belittled for not obeying her inlaws and feigning interest in her husband despite his lack of love for her.  

 

11 hours ago, tabitha2 said:

No. They were two people and many many people around them who tried to force or coax what was never meant to be in the first place from almost completely incompatible personality’s.  He had his issues and she had hers. I just think The Windsor’s wanted it and tried to make it work more than Diana ever did.  He was/is a good  father by Diana’s own admission and it’s a fact he has never said a bad word in public against her and if talk is true won’t allow others too as well.  After they separated they were on peaceful terms. 

There are many people who are wonderful parents, even excellent and cooperative co-parents, who were shitty spouses.

11 hours ago, anjulibai said:

It's a tragedy all the way around, but I can't say it's a tragedy with a great villain at it's heart. There was no villain. 

If it's as you say you don't think there is more culpability on the grown man who was raised royal and had expectations that a loveless marriage may be okay than the teenager who had no life experience with that and wanted her husband to love her?  

I think it's pretty clear who the villain is, to me.

[louisa05]

Honestly, Anne hauling out clothing from 1982 is a bit much. You can be thrifty without looking dated half the time. 

The criticism Meghan has had about clothing is probably justified on many counts. Rarely using British designers would have been easy to fix months ago. Not using one for her wedding gown was just bizarre and surely someone mentioned it before she made her choice. As for the similar clothing thing, girl wore navy dresses that looked almost exactly alike for half of that Australian tour. How did she not know it looked a bit spendy? When Kate has had similar outfits, as mentioned above, they have typically been worn years apart not days. Or consecutive days. Or the same day. Yes, she has multiple plain black coats worn at Remembrance Day. But she has also repeated a few now, too.  Meanwhile, Meghan's sleeveless trench dress worn for the photo call with the baby last week is so similar to one she wore not long before the pregnancy was announced, that a lot of people thought it was the same dress. Plus, as someone already pointed out, that's a super trendy style that will be buried in the closet never to be seen again in a year or less. Meanwhile, Kate's black coats for Remembrance Day can be pulled out again and again for that event as well as future royal funerals, etc...

And she would do well to invest in some ready-to-wear midline dresses from designers that sell for less than 2000 pounds and over. That kind of thing makes up the majority of Kate's working wardrobe. The high end stuff (McQueen is her go to) is typically for important events like christening, the Queen's milestones, etc...not a visit to a patronage. 

Meghan's total spending for 2018 did not include her wedding dresses and was substantially higher than Kate's 2011 total without even being adjusted for inflation. So there is that, too. She needs to start repeating some and start making smarter purchases. 

[formergothardite]

13 hours ago, tabitha2 said:

but Diana had emotional and possibly mental issues that might have been exasperated by being the Royal bubble but certainly not caused by her marriage.

It sure sounds like her marriage made it worse. She said that Charles saying she was chubby was one of the things that led to her eating disorder. She lost so much weight after he told her that. I suffer from a mental illness and I'm pretty damn sure that if at 19 I had been married to a man who didn't love me, told me I was chubby and was in love with another person that would greatly impact my mental health. 

 

12 hours ago, tabitha2 said:

being shown on camera looking bored and miserable at public or family events.

Diana suffered from anxiety issues, something I struggle with too. One thing is that it is pretty common for anxiety to manifest as looking miserable and bored when in fact you are inside trying your best not to fall apart. If I'm at in a situation where I'm anxious, I can come off as positively miserable and unfriendly. When my anxiety is not under control I can come off as not a pleasant person who hates being there. 

Edited May 18, 2019 by formergothardite

[tabitha2]

So basically  All her problems and unhealthy/unwise behavior were caused by other people and she was blameless apparently. If she had not married The EVIL CAD Charles and his EVIL family who cared nothing about her she would have been a perfectly  happy and healthy person right?That sounds like classic  fawning Diana worship  to me 

[HerNameIsBuffy]

15 minutes ago, tabitha2 said:

So basically  All her problems and unhealthy/unwise behavior were caused by other people and she was blameless apparently. If she had not married The EVIL CAD Charles and his EVIL family who cared nothing about her she would have been a perfectly  happy and healthy person right?That sounds like classic  fawning Diana worship  to me 

People are saying that teenagers shouldn't be taken advantage of by people with a wildly skewed power dynamic.  In any circumstances including, but not limited to, Charles and Diana.

If he was somehow single and Nathan Maxwell had courted Joy Duggar when she was 19 in hopes that one day he might grow to love her, but in the meantime she was appropriate and would bear his children no one here would be judging her for not trying harder to submissively fit into his family.  There would be outrage.

There are people here who are very upset by what they see as an unhealthy power dynamic between Kelton and Josie.  Ditto back when people felt Whitney was being coaxed into following the Bates skirt rule by her inlaws regardless of her own beliefs.

For me I don't understand why it's not okay for people who are clearly in a position of power to take advantage of those who are not except if they are Charles and then it's fine.

Also, no one said a word about her being fine but for him.  In fact I specifically said if she had these issues with mental health and her own family (and Idk but no reason to doubt you) then it's worse...because it's preying on someone with even less defense mechanisms than a typical teenager.

The strawman argument is all yours.

Believe what you want, for me this is not about Diana personally - I know very little about her except the compassion she showed for aids patients and that the world wide press talked about her clothes.  For me it's about being baffled why a very unhealthy dynamic which trapped a teenager into a marriage with a 30 something man who didn't love her is considered horrific here for fundies but just fine to blame the victim because of royalty.

They are just people. 

Edited May 18, 2019 by HerNameIsBuffy

[tabitha2]

No one trapped Diana or preyed on her as you dramatically put it. Her father did not sell her into marriage nor did the Windsor family force her to marry Charles. She wanted to marry in the family in the end. If anything Charles was pressured by his family to settle down. Phillip told him to either marry her or let her go because her reputation would be harmed. That was on him I give you that. 

 

 

[HerNameIsBuffy]

Just now, tabitha2 said:

No one trapped Diana or preyed on her as you dramatically put it. Her father did not sell her into marriage nor did the Windsor family force her to marry Charles. She wanted to marry in the family in the end. If anything Charles was pressured by his family to settle down. Phillip told him to either marry her or let her go because her reputation would be harmed. That was on him I give you that. 

 

 

You're right.  Teenagers with mental health issues are absolutely equipped to make major life decisions when the royal family is in the mix.

I'm bowing out and will toss this thread on ignore.  I thought there was a possibility of having a discussion about the bigger issues of the power dynamic and relationships, but clearly that stuff goes ignored and you're just working PR for some old Prince who is obviously very important to you.   

 

 

[VelociRapture]

13 hours ago, Palimpsest said:

You have to love Anne.  She is such a hard and dedicated worker for the royals, although she had a difficult start in the job.  She was a gold winning Olympic athlete in her own right, and she couldn't give a damn about being a clothes horse.  

For Anne:  Duty = very good.  Horses = very good.  Family = very important. 

Being a stylish clothes horse = Forget it!

Right now Anne is probably doing this:

"Archie's christening coming up.  One must find a clothe.  One must trot over to ones's clothing repository and find a suitable clothe because people expect it.  One would much rather be riding a horse, playing with grandchildren, or working with Save the Children."

::Enters an enormous vault-like closet.  Looks both confused and dismayed::

"So many choices.  So glad one has invested in classic clothes that don't date, and so glad one has kept one's figure.  This is all very boring but one must make a decision.  One need to air something out and get rid of the mothball  smell."

::Picks something at random off the rack.:

"One bought this in 1982.  Looked OK then.  Or at least one didn't get bad press for it.  Pretty sure people didn't mock it too much in 1993 or 2001 either.  It must be back in fashion by now.  It will do."

::Canters off to hang outfit in the stable yard to air it out gets back to work.:: 

After Archie's christening the press, leg-humpers and royal watchers point out that she looked like a crumpled duvet cover and has repeated the outfit 10+ times.

Anne: "One doesn't give a mare's fart about the polloi's opinions!  One was covered decently and frugally.  Bite me!"

Me:  Go Anne!

 

This is just beautiful. ?

I think my favorite Anne story is the one where someone tried to kidnap her at gunpoint when she was a young woman and her response was to basically say, “No you aren’t,” and, “Bloody likely,” when told to get out of the car. It was a truly dangerous and scary situation that I don’t find funny at all and I’m very glad no one was killed during the attempt, but her reaction to it was just somewhat amusing to me. Who says that to a kidnapper?! Princess Anne says that to a kidnapper. It must have been a terrifying situation to be in, but I admire how everyone involved, including Anne, appears to kept their cool and managed to act in fairly smart manners all things considered. 

[formergothardite]

59 minutes ago, tabitha2 said:

 All her problems and unhealthy/unwise behavior were caused by other people and she was blameless apparently. If she had not married The EVIL CAD Charles and his EVIL family who cared nothing about her she would have been a perfectly  happy and healthy person right?That sounds like classic  fawning Diana worship  to me 

No, she was hardly perfect and the worship of her is extreme. I'm not sure why you are fawning over Charles so much, though.  He married  a mentally ill teen who came from an unstable background and set her further into her mental illness by calling her chubby. I don't know why you want to gloss over that. That is a pretty terrible thing he did and he obviously played  a part in making her mental illness worse. 

[VelociRapture]

In my view, everyone involved in the marriage of Charles to Diana messed up to an extent. I give Diana more leeway than the others strictly because she was so very young and I do think she was taken advantage of to an extent, but I do think she likely bears some responsibility for how things eventually ended too.

I think it’s sad that she ended up so unhappy in the marriage. Same with Charles. Sometimes the best and healthiest thing a couple can do is decide to divorce though and I honestly think that was the case for Charles and Diana. They had two beautiful children together and they both seem to have genuinely loved their boys. I give them both credit for appearing to do their best to develop a cordial coparenting relationship for the children's sakes as I doubt that was always easy for them, especially with so much media attention on them. 

Thats all I really have to say. I wasn’t part of their marriage, I’m not their kid, and I feel kind of weird about passing real judgement for that reason. Whatever happened and however they felt about it isn’t something I feel is my business.

ETA: And speaking of Princess Anne, she attended the wedding of Lady Gabriella Windsor (daughter of Prince and Princess Michael of Kent) today. I actually kind of like the outfit she wore. I don’t even know why as it isn’t my style. You can see it here. 

Edited May 18, 2019 by VelociRapture

[Palimpsest]

46 minutes ago, VelociRapture said:

Whatever happened and however they felt about it isn’t something I feel is my business.

The War of the Waleses was over 23 years ago.  Diana is dead and buried and Charles is, I hope, a much better person today. 

I can tell you that I, and the majority of the British people I know personally, were fed up with the pair of them by the end of the marriage.   A lot of people like me simply wanted Squidgy and Tampon to get a divorce already and just shut up.  They were obviously both incredibly unhappy and needed to move on.

So let's let it go and move on too, please.   

1 hour ago, VelociRapture said:

I think my favorite Anne story is the one where someone tried to kidnap her at gunpoint when she was a young woman and her response was to basically say, “No you aren’t,” and, “Bloody likely,” when told to get out of the car.

I was at university in London when that happened and remember it well.  That is pretty much how it went down.  But several people were badly injured and it could have been a lot worse.  The kidnapper was seriously mentally ill, FWIW.  

Here's the story in full.  Mark Phillips doesn't come out of it so well but Anne handled it brilliantly.  She got into a lot of hot water in her youth for swearing in public but I think everyone forgave her that time.

https://www.smithsonianmag.com/history/bloody-attempt-kidnap-british-princess-180950202/

So yes, Princess Anne is very brave in a crisis and has a lot of horse sense (sorry, couldn't resist that one) .  She also has a good sense of humor about herself.  She only "lost her rag" when her dress split down the back.

Look what you can find when you google.  Here she is talking about it on a show called Parkinson.

 

ETA, Tiaras!  Is Gabriella wearing Princess Marina's tiara ... runs away to look.

Edited May 18, 2019 by Palimpsest

[Palimpsest]

Ah, nice.  I think that is the Kent City of London fringe tiara on Gabriella not the Kent Festoon.  The Festoon is a bit unwieldy.

[tabitha2]

Gabriella and Zara look so much alike. Never really noticed it before. Not that She is photographed all that much. 

[nelliebelle1197]

@Palimpsest you are too funny. I lived in London in 1996-7. I worked in a very posh firm in the City and these people and their strange lives were never discussed around the table in the pub. Heck, I worked with a real live baron and another minor nobleman, both of whom hobnobbed in the country with Andrew and Edward and the most I ever heard around the drinks table was the baron cracking on Edward because he is apparently actually gay and stuck with Sophie. 

My girlfriend worked at the Hale Clinic, where Diana got her famous enemas and again, not a big deal. I just don’t get why Americans actually fight and obsess on these people. My New Zealand MIL was born on the sunset of the empire and she only speaks of them as if they were distant cousins!

[ViolaSebastian]

2 hours ago, nelliebelle1197 said:

@Palimpsest you are too funny. I lived in London in 1996-7. I worked in a very posh firm in the City and these people and their strange lives were never discussed around the table in the pub. Heck, I worked with a real live baron and another minor nobleman, both of whom hobnobbed in the country with Andrew and Edward and the most I ever heard around the drinks table was the baron cracking on Edward because he is apparently actually gay and stuck with Sophie. 

My girlfriend worked at the Hale Clinic, where Diana got her famous enemas and again, not a big deal. I just don’t get why Americans actually fight and obsess on these people. My New Zealand MIL was born on the sunset of the empire and she only speaks of them as if they were distant cousins!

Girl, I just Googled “Princess Diana enemas.” 

[adidas]

Harry and Meghan just released a bunch of previously unseen photos for their first anniversary. Check out Instagram. Absolutely gorgeous (and I continue to love that song, the choir was brilliant).

[Thorns]

I've followed some Meghan style blogs, and can't say that I've reacted to her spendings? On the bespoke Dior and Valentino in Morrocco I felt my eyebrows twitch a little, but most of the time I've felt like she has a good, mixed selection of high-end pieces, bespoke and designer. And all the times she has reworn her Aquazzuara heels..! Some of her style is a bit repetative (the trench dresses), but I've got the feeling that Meghan and her stylist is still trying to adjust to British Royal rather than American/Hollywood fashonista. 

How does her spending compare to the years Catherine has had tours?

-----

Edit, I looked up the source (one of them?), the UFO No More. Seems that Meghan has the highest spending, and the second highest spending as per piece. Their methods is not totaly clear, as it seems like her jewllery for the wedding and her second dress is included, which is not included for some of the others (removing it from the total would mean a major reduction). It is also not clear whether they have adjusted for pre-owned items (for instance shoes).

So while she has certainly spent a ton of money, esp since the bespoke garments are not included in the estimates, I'm not very impressed by the reporting. 

Edited May 19, 2019 by Thorns
Did some thinking.

[WiseGirl]

39 minutes ago, Thorns said:

Some of her style is a bit repetative (the trench dresses), 

Are trench dresses to Megan what coat dresses are to Catherine?

I don't envy either of these women. Life in an extreme fishbowl.

I'm waiting for tabloids to finally try a new tactic, pitting them as a team because IMO together they could be a powerful duo, but I won't hold my breath.

[Palimpsest]

10 hours ago, nelliebelle1197 said:

the baron cracking on Edward because he is apparently actually gay and stuck with Sophie. 

'Tis rumored, and has been for years.  But, if true, they seem to have an arrangement that works well for them. 

As an expat, I think the monarchy is an institution and so long as the royals behave decently they will be tolerated by the British people.  The Queen is respected as a hard worker and for her longevity.  And she knows her place as a constitutional monarch.   She reigns as sovereign but she doesn't rule (make laws).  She knows to keep her mouth shut about policy, and that if she chose to exercise some of the Sovereign Powers still technically left to her (like veto a law) the monarchy would be toppled in a nanosecond.  Her role is basically that of a rubber stamp on laws, an entertainer of foreign dignitaries, and a person who hands out meaningless honors and decorations to deserving people who appreciate them.

Charles, take note.  And thanks for ceasing to write spider notes to the Prime Minister, if you have.  We don't care about your views on architecture, or that you are pissed because you can't foxhunt any more.  

I don't know how they get crowds of well-wishers at royal weddings.  I suspect at least two thirds are foreign tourists, and the rest are royal worshippers or people with nothing better to do.  

As you say, most people don't care much about the royals, especially the minor ones.  They are irrelevant.  It isn't uncommon to spot them (senior and junior) in the wild if you live anywhere near any of the royal residences in the countryside or walk around near KP.   If they aren't performing a royal duty, it is considered good manners to ignore them.  Only a guttersnipe would approach one let alone take a photo of a royal doing something mundane and sell it to a tabloid.  

[Palimpsest]

9 hours ago, ViolaSebastian said:

Girl, I just Googled “Princess Diana enemas.” 

Oh, alternative medicine is just a royal eccentricity.  But another of the reasons Charles needs to shut his trap and stop annoying people by promoting his odder pet subjects.

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2004/jun/27/themonarchy.medicineandhealth

Quote

Prince Charles has never made a secret of his love affair with alternative medicine. Now he has infuriated the medical profession by backing a controversial cancer treatment which involves taking daily coffee enemas and drinking litres of fruit juice instead of using drugs. Charles gave an enthusiastic endorsement last week to the Gerson Therapy, which eschews chemotherapy in favour of 13 fruit juices a day, coffee enemas and weekly injections of vitamins.

[nokidsmom]

On 5/15/2019 at 10:33 AM, formergothardite said:

I learned about Diana's death in church. The pastor got up and announced it first thing and people were sobbing. Having never followed the royal family I didn't get it. It was insane how people behaved when she died. 

I remember waking up that morning and hearing of her death via the Sunday newspaper, we did not have internet at home then.  I remember being in just disbelief and my first thought was of William and Harry and how they were doing.

I follow the RF somewhat, always did, but I did not understand the mass hysteria.   I get that a lot of people loved Diana, I understand people being upset but still the reactions were so over the top.  I remember the Queen coming under a lot of criticism for remaining at Balmoral and my first thought was because of her grandchildren.  Recently I read that later on she received apologies for the criticism, that her decision was the first time she put personal concerns ahead of royal duty.

On 5/11/2019 at 2:09 AM, just_ordinary said:

I wish I could love your post a hundred times. The obsession with her (and other royals) is worrying sometimes. I can only imagine how strange that must be for the people who actually are her family.

I am sure that William and Harry miss her every day but it's got to be weird dealing with people wanting to bring up their mother all the time.    And people like Hasnat Khan and James Hewitt, to name a couple, are forever marked for their associations with Diana, though to be fair Hewitt did bring it on himself while Khan has been quiet and has tried to put it behind him with limited success.

 

[Thorns]

4 hours ago, WiseGirl said:

Are trench dresses to Megan what coat dresses are to Catherine?

I don't envy either of these women. Life in an extreme fishbowl.

I'm waiting for tabloids to finally try a new tactic, pitting them as a team because IMO together they could be a powerful duo, but I won't hold my breath.

At least slightly oversized dresses with structural/architectural details is! 

I get that coat dresses looks good on her and that they probably works well for her clothing needs, but, pleaaase...Something else than coat dresses, flared skirt, and a peter pan collar once in a while? She looks so good in almost everything, branch out! 

[nausicaa]

On 5/18/2019 at 12:29 AM, Palimpsest said:

But he was wrong.  Anne has buckled down, found things not equine that interest her, and is now one of the hardest working royals,  In royal duties and time spent on the job she's often outstripped Charles.  She earned the title of Princess Royal although she's had her own divorce, scandals, and less than wonderful moments.  Many of them.

I've heard it said by a lot of older people that it's a shame Anne wasn't born a man, or the rules of succession weren't different, because she would have been a great monarch and had a more natural leadership aptitude than the Chuckster. 

As a total fuddy-duddy snob who despises modern architecture and dreams of moving to Virginia's hunt country, I've always suspected Charles and I would get along though. (He's gonna need to shut up about the Gerson method though.)