Bridging the Divide

[Bethella]

One thing everyone, regardless of political views, can agree on is that the United States is a divided nation. At least I hope we can agree on that one fact because there is little else that we do agree on. This country has lost its shared identity. And that worries me. To quote Lincoln, “A house divided against itself cannot stand.” We are no longer capable of having an open and honest debate in this country. I see people on both sides of the debate who have lost all respect for the people who disagree with them. I have a friend who had to block a Trump supporting in-law on Facebook during the campaign; he was so incapable of letting go that after she blocked him, he would take other relatives phones so he could continue posting nasty stuff including threats using their logins. But I’ve also seen people here and elsewhere posting that they don’t have any empathy or sympathy for Trump supporters who are hurt by his policies.

My questions are: How do we go about bridging this divide? How do we start a dialog of healing? Can we rediscover a common identity as Americans?

I know that many Democrats currently have their hopes pinned on Trump supporters getting buyer’s remorse. But will that be enough? Many Trump supporters felt excluded by the traditional political system, that’s why they supported him in the first place. I don’t think the Democrats will automatically succeed in 2018 unless they try to reach out, understand where those Trump supporters were coming from and try to address their concerns.

Below are two articles about looking at Trump from various perspectives. I think the Michigan Divided series (which is ongoing) will be really interesting to see how it plays out.

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-38996293

http://www.bridgemi.com/special-reports/michigan-divided

[Childless]

3 hours ago, Bethella said:

One thing everyone, regardless of political views, can agree on is that the United States is a divided nation. At least I hope we can agree on that one fact because there is little else that we do agree on. This country has lost its shared identity. And that worries me. To quote Lincoln, “A house divided against itself cannot stand.” We are no longer capable of having an open and honest debate in this country. I see people on both sides of the debate who have lost all respect for the people who disagree with them. I have a friend who had to block a Trump supporting in-law on Facebook during the campaign; he was so incapable of letting go that after she blocked him, he would take other relatives phones so he could continue posting nasty stuff including threats using their logins. But I’ve also seen people here and elsewhere posting that they don’t have any empathy or sympathy for Trump supporters who are hurt by his policies.

My questions are: How do we go about bridging this divide? How do we start a dialog of healing? Can we rediscover a common identity as Americans?

I know that many Democrats currently have their hopes pinned on Trump supporters getting buyer’s remorse. But will that be enough? Many Trump supporters felt excluded by the traditional political system, that’s why they supported him in the first place. I don’t think the Democrats will automatically succeed in 2018 unless they try to reach out, understand where those Trump supporters were coming from and try to address their concerns.

Below are two articles about looking at Trump from various perspectives. I think the Michigan Divided series (which is ongoing) will be really interesting to see how it plays out.

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-38996293

http://www.bridgemi.com/special-reports/michigan-divided

We are divided and I don't think there's a way to not be.  I'm unwilling to go against what I believe is right just to appease someone else.  I'm sure those opposite me feel the same.  At this point, I honestly think dividing into two different countries is the only solution.

As to those who've felt excluded by the political system, are they really any less excluded than the rest of us?  I don't feel excluded and I'm typical middle class.  Do they really feel excluded by the political system or do they feel excluded because they are falling behind economically due to the information age?  I know a lot of people voted for Trump because of his promise to bring back coal and factory jobs.  The truth is there are tons of manufacturing jobs going unfilled right now because companies can't find people with the skills necessary to do the jobs.  That is the new reality of manufacturing.  What are these people doing to prepare themselves for these jobs?  Trump cannot turn back time and make manufacturing what it was in the 80s.  These people need training to increase their skills.  The only people talking about offering that training were the Democrats (Bernie started it and forced HRC on board).  So, why did people vote for Trump instead of HRC?  It's hard to find common ground with people unwilling to vote in their own favor.  I refuse to sell myself or those less fortunate than me out just to find common ground.  I've tried and tried and tried to discuss why Republican policy does not favor anyone but the rich and yet Trump voters (at least those I know) refuse to listen.  How do you work with people who refuse to listen, refuse to think?  Who only want someone to hand them easy solutions to complicated problems? 

[bea]

Too early for me. I'm not reaching out a goddamned thing because some assholes decided to sit at home and pout because their great white hope Bernie didn't win the DNC nomination (he wouldn't have won either), and because MORE assholes decided to vote for a snake oil salesman with a string of fraud convictions who was also a serial assaulter of women and had strong ties to goddamned Nazi groups. REALLY? Like, I'm supposed to reach across the aisle to people who voted to hurt and humiliate their fellow Americans because OH NO it turns out THEY are affected by these racist draconian policies and the flat-out lies too!

Haha no. They can rot. I'm going to fight for me, my family, and my way of life and they can go sit in their miserable little towns and ROT.

[CTRLZero]

I think it is too early for a lot of us.  It's very difficult for us to go from fairly predictable administrations to one where we have a tweeting mass of turmoil at the helm.

That said, here is a link to an article about a Silicon Valley high tech guy who decided to listen to Trump supporters.  It's worth scrolling through:

Here's what Sam Altman learned - Business Insider article

I'm guessing that we'll start having dialogues with the "other side" when Trump's health care scheme is introduced.  If nothing else, I think we can agree we are all just humans and need a place to go when we are ill (and help paying for it).  I'd rather start building bridges over that, than unite over war with a common foe (please, Trump, don't start a war).

I can't help having this little streak of optimism, gloomy as current events seem.

 

[Bethella]

While I can see where you are coming from about it being too soon to reach out, but for me I'm worried about waiting to long and having the divisions be irreparable. Unlike @clueliss I'm not willing to give up on America and healing the divide. I may be naive but like @CTRLZero, I haven't given up hope yet.  From the Altman article: 
 

Quote

 

"You all can defeat Trump next time, but not if you keep mocking us, refusing to listen to us, and cutting us out. It's Republicans, not Democrats, who will take Trump down." 

"You need to give us an opportunity to admit we may have been wrong without saying we're bad people. I am already thinking I made a mistake, but I feel ostracized from my community."

 

I don't know that we need to betray our beliefs but I do believe that compromise is important. Without compromise we will continue to become more and more polarized. Is it really too much to sit down, listen to the other side and calmly and rationally discuss the issues without being dismissive and resorting to stereotyping or name calling? Even just trying to find common ground on what the issues are, even if we don't agree with each other about how to fix those issues.

[Childless]

6 hours ago, Bethella said:

While I can see where you are coming from about it being too soon to reach out, but for me I'm worried about waiting to long and having the divisions be irreparable. Unlike @clueliss I'm not willing to give up on America and healing the divide. I may be naive but like @CTRLZero, I haven't given up hope yet.  From the Altman article: 
 

I don't know that we need to betray our beliefs but I do believe that compromise is important. Without compromise we will continue to become more and more polarized. Is it really too much to sit down, listen to the other side and calmly and rationally discuss the issues without being dismissive and resorting to stereotyping or name calling? Even just trying to find common ground on what the issues are, even if we don't agree with each other about how to fix those issues.

Only if the other side is willing to deal in facts and I don't see that happening.  Most Trump voters I know continue to cling to untruths and are not willing to admit those untruths are wrong.  They're willing to sacrifice democracy and the Constitution for their undying love of a millionaire who tells them what they want to hear.  They are unwilling to make the tough choices, do the hard work, and make the sacrifices it will take to fix our complex problems.  They'd rather stick their head in the sand and refuse to do anything or even acknowledge the problems exist.  You simply can't work with people like that.  And they've given no indication they want to change.  If those of us who do want a better country, a better world, are ready to get to work, what's the point of sticking around beating our head against a wall when we could be spending our time actually solving problems?  I say cut them loose.  Give them their own country to destroy while the rest of us move on to better things.

[formergothardite]

9 hours ago, Bethella said:

Without compromise we will continue to become more and more polarized. Is it really too much to sit down, listen to the other side and calmly and rationally discuss the issues without being dismissive and resorting to stereotyping or name calling? Even just trying to find common ground on what the issues are, even if we don't agree with each other about how to fix those issues.

This is easier said than done. I had to clean my Facebook of Trump fans because there was no having a rational discussion with them. Their side was based in racism and hate and this idea we can go back to the "good old days" when my area was filled with cotton mills and you could walk out of highschool and get a good paying job that you kept your entire life  Those days are gone and they aren't coming back and yet if you try to explain this it falls on deaf ears. 

I'm not sure how to fix this when one side refuses to look at reality. I get it, a lot of places, including my area was built on and around cotton mills and when they left it became hard to find jobs, but those days are over and we have to move on. 

ETA: I also think that in looking at why Trump got elected people should also take into account that the GOP has spent years trying to ensure that the groups of people who would vote against someone like Trump would have a very hard time voting or stopped voting because they have been made to feel like their vote didn't count. 

And honestly, I'm not sure what compromise people are wanting. How to you build a bridge one one side is wanting to use imaginary wood? 

[sawasdee]

@formergothardite

3 hours ago, formergothardite said:

. How do you build a bridge when one side is wanting to use imaginary wood? 

That is the best summary I have heard or read of the present day US political situation.

[candygirl200413]

My thing also is that when people talk about coming together, it's never let's meet in the middle, it's more "Liberals you're suppose to be more tolerant so listen to the other side!". I remember when the election happened, while I was feeling so sad, I was like let me try to understand what Trump voters were feeling. Then I realize that it was  routed in racism and not wanting to change.

[onekidanddone]

6 hours ago, sawasdee said:

@formergothardite

That is the best summary I have heard or read of the present day US political situation.

Or, how do you build a bridge when the other side keeps lighting it on fire.

[Ali]

How do you build a bridge when you Republican Rep refuses to have a town meeting and listen to your concerns?

[formergothardite]

I'm really not sure what can be compromised. When one side is so based in hatred and false info, there is no meeting in the middle. We don't go half-way to hate and lies. 

 

[Bethella]

I'm working on a better reply but for now...

 

[kacarlton]

I've been struggling with this since Election Day. I feel like I should be able to have a reasonable conversation with Trumpettes, and yet our values are sooo different that I can't imagine where the middle ground is. Sigh.

[Cartmann99]

2 hours ago, Bethella said:

I'm working on a better reply but for now...

 

I admire your optimism. I've lost mine along the way. I guess I've just seen too much.  

 

 

[Bethella]

15 hours ago, formergothardite said:

This is easier said than done.

I never said that it would be easy, part of the reason I started the thread was to brainstorm ways to reach out and start bridging the divide. But I firmly believe that is something we need to do, not only because it may be the only way to save this country but also because it's the right thing to do. For the last eight years Democrats have complained about Republicans blocking Obama. Now that the shoe is on the other foot, can Democrats retain the moral high ground without at least trying to reach out? 

Maybe part of the problem is viewing the country as us versus them. What about the 92 million eligible voters who didn't vote? Or the people who chose to vote for a candidate they viewed as the lesser of two evils?

4 hours ago, kacarlton said:

I've been struggling with this since Election Day. I feel like I should be able to have a reasonable conversation with Trumpettes, and yet our values are sooo different that I can't imagine where the middle ground is. Sigh.

The best I can come up with right now is trying to reach a place where we at least agree on what the issues are. I have heard some things about people holding potlucks to start creating a space for people to communicate, to help humanize the people on the other side. I'm not sure how well that would work but I think it's an interesting concept. 

[formergothardite]

6 hours ago, Bethella said:

I never said that it would be easy, part of the reason I started the thread was to brainstorm ways to reach out and start bridging the divide.

Can you tell us how you have dealt with the die-hard Trump fans who have refused any rational dialogue and were living in some alternative world where they only spouted alternative facts? Because I DID try to reach out and understand and start a discussion with the other side after the election and it was a dismal failure for me. There was no bridging that divide unless I was willing to enter their world. They weren't going to budge one inch from their side so any movement was going to have to be by me and I'm not willing to compromise my morals and soul by moving in the direction of hate. 

6 hours ago, Bethella said:

For the last eight years Democrats have complained about Republicans blocking Obama. Now that the shoe is on the other foot, can Democrats retain the moral high ground without at least trying to reach out? 

At the same time, can we remain the moral high ground if we don't try to block terrible policies that will hurt many people and our environment? 

6 hours ago, Bethella said:

What about the 92 million eligible voters who didn't vote?

And this is where we should start with. Looking at why these people vote and if this was because the GOP worked damn hard to ensure entire groups couldn't and wouldn't vote. Because I can tell you that in NC the GOP has been working overtime to make sure that anyone who might vote democrat had a harder time voting. 

http://www.salon.com/2016/11/10/the-real-reason-black-voters-didnt-turn-out-for-hillary-clinton-and-how-to-fix-it/

Quote

The low turnout for Clinton had little to do with her black support and everything to do with the effective campaign of voter suppression run by Republicans, one that has decimated accessible options for people of color

In my state of NC, the GOP made sure to cut way down on the places to vote and the hours you can vote because they knew it would be harder for people who live in the bigger cities(who are typically democrat) to vote. The county election boards that were controlled by Republicans slashed the number of voting places in areas that are heavily democratic so people would people show up to vote and be faced with four-five hour lines. If you are a single working mom, chances of you walking away and deciding to just not vote because you can't wait that long is much higher when faced with lines like that. And that is exactly what the Republicans wanted. How much of the low voter turn out had to do with Hillary and how much had to do with voter suppression? More Americans voted for Hillary, would she have won if the Republicans hadn't rigged the voting system in their favor? 

As for people who think Trump was the lesser of the evil, how many of those folks have you talked to? Because I have talked to people who voted for Trump for that reason and their decisions are made on fake information about Hillary, this idea that she is wanting people to kill babies and that she might give gay people more rights. They also weren't willing to budge. So what is your suggestion for people like that? I'm not sure a potluck would cut it with people like that. 

I get you think we should offer more sympathy for people who voted against their own best interest, but this is harder when dealing with willful ignorance day in and day out and when even if Trump policies hurt them, they will go right back voting to hurt themselves because the Republicans feed into their hatred of "others" and because they are wanting to live in a fake world where the old mills and factories will come back to life. 

I'm frankly out of ideas on how to do this after attempting to do it because it is clear from my experience that talking and discussion won't work with many of these people. I'm at the point that I"m not sure the bridge to many of these people can be built and that instead the focus should be on looking at the people who didn't vote and reaching out to them. And combat the gerrymandering and voter suppression. I know there are lots of democrats excited and pushing for change in my sate, but everyone is worried that because the GOP has gerrymandered the shit out of our sate that it will be almost impossible to vote Republicans out of office. 

[kacarlton]

In my state of NC, the GOP made sure to cut way down on the places to vote and the hours you can vote because they knew it would be harder for people who live in the bigger cities(who are typically democrat) to vote. The county election boards that were controlled by Republicans slashed the number of voting places in areas that are heavily democratic so people would people show up to vote and be faced with four-five hour lines. If you are a single working mom, chances of you walking away and deciding to just not vote because you can't wait that long is much higher when faced with lines like that. And that is exactly what the Republicans wanted. How much of the low voter turn out had to do with Hillary and how much had to do with voter suppression? More Americans voted for Hillary, would she have won if the Republicans hadn't rigged the voting system in their favor? 
As for people who think Trump was the lesser of the evil, how many of those folks have you talked to? Because I have talked to people who voted for Trump for that reason and their decisions are made on fake information about Hillary, this idea that she is wanting people to kill babies and that she might give gay people more rights. They also weren't willing to budge. So what is your suggestion for people like that? I'm not sure a potluck would cut it with people like that. 
I get you think we should offer more sympathy for people who voted against their own best interest, but this is harder when dealing with willful ignorance day in and day out and when even if Trump policies hurt them, they will go right back voting to hurt themselves because the Republicans feed into their hatred of "others" and because they are wanting to live in a fake world where the old mills and factories will come back to life. 
I'm frankly out of ideas on how to do this after attempting to do it because it is clear from my experience that talking and discussion won't work with many of these people. I'm at the point that I"m not sure the bridge to many of these people can be built and that instead the focus should be on looking at the people who didn't vote and reaching out to them. And combat the gerrymandering and voter suppression. I know there are lots of democrats excited and pushing for change in my sate, but everyone is worried that because the GOP has gerrymandered the shit out of our sate that it will be almost impossible to vote Republicans out of office. 

You are so right about NC. I keep telling friends in other states that if they want to know what will happen with Trump and his GOP Congress, look no further than NC. They have set us back at least 50 years and they're not done yet.

[LeftCoastLurker]

On this matter, I just have to relay my one experience with a good friend who was a rabid Trumpf supporter before the election. He also happens to be my boss for the past 10+ years! He has known my two internationally adopted daughters since they were 4 and 6. They call him Uncle. He would move heaven and earth for them.

The first day I saw him after the election he knew I'd be despondent/angry/scared. I looked at him and said, I just need you to know one thing. "Today when <older daughter> got up and found out who had won the election, she looked at me and asked, "am I going to get deported?". 

Intellectually she knew she wouldn't (she is a US citizen), but when my friend found out how Trumpf's racist remarks had affected my daughter to such an extent, he has changed his tune somewhat.

I'm having trouble explaining this. What I'm trying to say is that for those rabid supporters, if you can find an example of a policy that would negatively effect someone they love (but that wouldn't negatively effect them...because that is all they may have thought about) it might make them think things through a little bit more. Does that make any sense?

I have to say that the one other great thing he has done, is that if we are in the retail area of the business and a customer starts fawning over the orange one, he is OK when I leave the room until they are done. I can't keep my mouth shut and arguing with customers is definitely not good for business!

 

[formergothardite]

37 minutes ago, LeftCoastLurker said:

I'm having trouble explaining this. What I'm trying to say is that for those rabid supporters, if you can find an example of a policy that would negatively effect someone they love (but that wouldn't negatively effect them...because that is all they may have thought about) it might make them think things through a little bit more. Does that make any sense?

I think this would work for some people, but there are some where it wouldn't. For example, a woman I was friends with on FB wrote a gloating post about how glad she was to be done with Obamacare and how it was evil. She had a friend of hers reply that before the ACA the cost of their yearly premiums was almost half their income and they ended up being uninsured. Another person replied that without the ACA their special needs daughter would be uninsured. These people were viciously attacked by Trump supporters and this friend who has known those people for years liked all the comments that called them names.

There is another person I talked to who told me that she didn't care about anything I told her because she would never support a democrat or any sort of democratic policy. 

After talking to you, is your boss still a Trump supporter? Does he see the danger in Trump? If you had told him this before the election, would he have still voted for Trump? I've had some  conversations with Trump fans who seemed to be listening only to realize later they were just being nice to my face and I had not made any impact and we were still just as divided. They might pay some lip service to concerns, but nothing has really changed in their beliefs. 

ETA: I guess what I'm saying is, if we get people to acknowledge that Trump's policies hurt people, but not change their opinion that they would still vote for someone like Trump, are we really bridging any sort of divide? In my opinion the answer is no. 

 

[Mecca]

On 2/27/2017 at 10:34 PM, Bethella said:

While I can see where you are coming from about it being too soon to reach out, but for me I'm worried about waiting to long and having the divisions be irreparable. Unlike @clueliss I'm not willing to give up on America and healing the divide. I may be naive but like @CTRLZero, I haven't given up hope yet.  From the Altman article: 
 

I don't know that we need to betray our beliefs but I do believe that compromise is important. Without compromise we will continue to become more and more polarized. Is it really too much to sit down, listen to the other side and calmly and rationally discuss the issues without being dismissive and resorting to stereotyping or name calling? Even just trying to find common ground on what the issues are, even if we don't agree with each other about how to fix those issues.

I read your opening post a few days ago and took a bit of time to get my thoughts together. I appreciate your thoughts and wish I could be as optimistic as you and others, but I am not there are the moment, and I am not sure I will ever get there. We have got to allow people to come to terms with what they have been handed. 

As a recent cancer patient and being an immigrant family, there are some things I am not willing to compromise on. If I am being completely brutally honest, I get a bit annoyed that I am the one that needs to always bridge the gap and compromise with people that have been unwilling to do the same past and present. I have tried the reasonable approach with people that held opposing political ideology all my adult life because of conservative family and friends, but that really got me nowhere. Our last president tried bridging the gap, but all he got was shutdown, blocked and mocked. I tried to recently reasonably talk to my Rep. at a local town hall as well as many others in my jurisdiction, but all that rep did was get on national TV the following day and flat out lied to the viewing audience about who attended the meeting and how the townhall went down. How can I reasonably have a conversation with a lying liar that lies and is suppose to represent their constituents but really only represents their own interests? I can't. I tried. It flat out does not work. My local advocacy group tried holding a reach out meeting, but guess who were the ones that showed up? Yep, not the Trump supporters. 

I live in a VERY red state and being told by many people I know that I should be moved to a high risk pool simply because I pulled the wrong genetics card and got cancer at a young age does not really make me want to listen to what they have to say. Being told my family is taking good jobs away from natural-born citizens really does not make me want to listen to what they have to say. If they have no empathy for my situation, I am not sure I can't mustard up enough empathy for their's. I am tied. I am tied of doing just that and getting nothing in return. 

Rarely has change occurred in the U.S. without some aggressive actions and words. Progression does not happen because people where able to be nice and listen to one another and come to a compromise. It usually happened because people got pissed off, protested and demanded change. This country basically came about because people were fed up with being taken for a ride. This time is no different, IMO. 

12 hours ago, Bethella said:

For the last eight years Democrats have complained about Republicans blocking Obama. Now that the shoe is on the other foot, can Democrats retain the moral high ground without at least trying to reach out? 

But there is a HUGE difference here. Obama was blocked while trying to actually help the country. He was told he was a Kenyan, not a real citizen and a group called the Tea Party was formed by racists to basically troll him for eight years. Seeing the type of legislation that is being batted around, the cabinets being filled with the swamp, and executive orders that are being signed, now is NOT the time for Democrats to get soft and compromise. I also want to remind everyone that the reason many of the Republicans are in office now is because of voter suppression laws and gerrymandering. They really don't represent the majority in this country, so that is why we need to have our voices heard and heard loud. 

Anyway, that is my take. I may look like a unreasonable jerk for the above, but I am at the point I just don't care. Playing nice rarely worked for me in the past, so I will continue to fight for my family and for others that can't fight. 

[Bethella]

4 hours ago, formergothardite said:

Can you tell us how you have dealt with the die-hard Trump fans who have refused any rational dialogue and were living in some alternative world where they only spouted alternative facts?

I haven't had much luck with the die-hard Trump fans but I have had some luck with the more moderate ones. Yes, I did have someone (a relative) tell me that it doesn't matter what Trump says, only what he really meant because no matter what he ways the media will skew it however they want. But I also had someone admit (when faced with the facts) that the Muslim ban didn't target countries whose citizens had previously committed terrorist acts here in the US and that maybe the Muslim ban wasn't thought out very well. We were able to have a civil debate without her saying I was soft of terrorism or me saying that she was an anti-Muslim bigot. It might not be much but it is something.

4 hours ago, formergothardite said:

At the same time, can we remain the moral high ground if we don't try to block terrible policies that will hurt many people and our environment?

I think we can hold to certain standards while still making a good faith effort to negotiate. Do I expect the Republicans to reciprocate? At this point, no I don't, holding the majority in both houses of congress means they don't have to. 

4 hours ago, formergothardite said:

As for people who think Trump was the lesser of the evil, how many of those folks have you talked to? Because I have talked to people who voted for Trump for that reason and their decisions are made on fake information about Hillary, this idea that she is wanting people to kill babies and that she might give gay people more rights. They also weren't willing to budge. So what is your suggestion for people like that? I'm not sure a potluck would cut it with people like that. 

Like the person I was debating regarding the Muslim ban, I guess I'm coming down to- keep beating them over the head with real facts, keep showing them the faces and the stories of the people who are harmed by Trump's policies. 

5 minutes ago, LeftCoastLurker said:

I'm having trouble explaining this. What I'm trying to say is that for those rabid supporters, if you can find an example of a policy that would negatively effect someone they love (but that wouldn't negatively effect them...because that is all they may have thought about) it might make them think things through a little bit more. Does that make any sense?

Yes, this makes sense to me. I think that this is part of the idea behind the potlucks, put real faces and stories on these policies and news stories so that people see what's really happening and how these policies are affecting real people.

4 minutes ago, formergothardite said:

I think this would work for some people, but there are some where it wouldn't.

I don't think anyone is saying that it's going to work for everyone but that doesn't mean we shouldn't try. Please don't take this the wrong way but it seems to me that you've completely given up on anyone who voted for Trump and for any chance of healing the divide in this country. I'm not willing to do that yet. I still think there's a chance we can convince enough people that Trump and his policies are bad. Hell, at this point if we can get rid of the name calling and have a civil debate on the issues it would still be an improvement on the current situation. Like I said before, maybe I'm naive and maybe I'm grasping at straws but digging in the trenches of us versus them is part of what has divided the country. The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over expecting a different result. We need to try something different.

[formergothardite]

I guess I have given up on the Trump supporters. I'm tired of treating them like special snowflakes who can vote for evil and then I'm expected to tip-toe around their feelings. Maybe it is because of my location, but all I'm experiencing is that even the Trump folks who are nice to my face and acknowledge any sort of problems Trump cause aren't really changing. No bridge is being built. 

To me, the real focus should not be of catering to people who voted for pure evil, but instead looking at how to stop rampant voter suppression that helped Trump win. Why not make the focus bridging the divide between people who wanted to vote but couldn't or the people whose votes are made to not count because of gerrymandering? We can talk nice to Trump fans all day long, but in the end, will that talk change anything when entire groups of people(who most likely wouldn't vote for Trump) are having their voting rights restricted? 

I'm with @Mecca. Playing nice isn't going to work IMO. 

[LeftCoastLurker]

1 hour ago, formergothardite said:

<snip> 

After talking to you, is your boss still a Trump supporter? Does he see the danger in Trump? If you had told him this before the election, would he have still voted for Trump? I've had some  conversations with Trump fans who seemed to be listening only to realize later they were just being nice to my face and I had not made any impact and we were still just as divided. They might pay some lip service to concerns, but nothing has really changed in their beliefs. 

ETA: I guess what I'm saying is, if we get people to acknowledge that Trump's policies hurt people, but not change their opinion that they would still vote for someone like Trump, are we really bridging any sort of divide? In my opinion the answer is no. 

 

I actually think he is no longer a supporter. When any comment regarding Trump and his minions happens to be made, he no longer vocally supports them and I can tell he appears sheepish (I've known him a loooong time). I truly believes he regrets his vote. The look on his face when I told him what my daughter said about being deported spoke volumes.

I don't know the answers to the other questions, because we have chosen to not speak about politics. He is still much more to the right than I am (and actually everyone else who works in our small establishment), so things best go unsaid.

I do want to add, that when I made that comment to him about my daughter I had NO idea he would react as he did. I mostly said it to him so that he could understand my current mental state regarding the election results.

[47of74]

On 2/28/2017 at 7:14 AM, formergothardite said:

This is easier said than done. I had to clean my Facebook of Trump fans because there was no having a rational discussion with them. Their side was based in racism and hate and this idea we can go back to the "good old days" when my area was filled with cotton mills and you could walk out of highschool and get a good paying job that you kept your entire life  Those days are gone and they aren't coming back and yet if you try to explain this it falls on deaf ears. 

I'm not sure how to fix this when one side refuses to look at reality. I get it, a lot of places, including my area was built on and around cotton mills and when they left it became hard to find jobs, but those days are over and we have to move on. 

ETA: I also think that in looking at why Trump got elected people should also take into account that the GOP has spent years trying to ensure that the groups of people who would vote against someone like Trump would have a very hard time voting or stopped voting because they have been made to feel like their vote didn't count. 

And honestly, I'm not sure what compromise people are wanting. How to you build a bridge one one side is wanting to use imaginary wood? 

Yeah my block list has grown quite a bit over the past few months and is full of members of Cult 45 who even if I built a bridge would sooner light that bridge on fire while we're walking across, then point and laugh as we fall into shit creek.