The Willis Family: Rape Charges Part 2

[Granwych]

5 hours ago, samurai_sarah said:

Thank you! Sometimes the eye of the beholder says more about the beholder than the people they observe.

Well, as a survivor of years of sexual abuse, my beholder's eye has made me very uncomfortable watching what appears to me as very inappropriate.  Judge away.

[samurai_sarah]

10 hours ago, Granwych said:

Well, as a survivor of years of sexual abuse, my beholder's eye has made me very uncomfortable watching what appears to me as very inappropriate.  Judge away.

Noted! Thank you for coming out as a survivor! Yet, I personally think that we should just listen to the survivors, if they want to talk. It's their story to tell, and the beholder only ever projects.

 

 

Edited: I got distracted and typed something here that belonged into a work e-mail.

[Oh_Dear!]

Appears like the oldest 6 (minus Jessica) are entering back into spotlight.  This is a video of a recent interview they did about what happened.  I can't even imagine what these girls have been through. 

I'm quite impressed with their strength.  

 

 

[Ais]

I know there are huge differences between what happened within the Willis family and what happened in the Duggar family, but I can't help but be struck by the differences in how each family dealt with it. I don't know if there is a right and wrong way to do things in these situations but I can't help feeling that the Willis way offers a bit more hope for the future.

[Hisey]

On 4/1/2018 at 1:27 PM, samurai_sarah said:

Thank you! Sometimes the eye of the beholder says more about the beholder than the people they observe.

And sometimes, it says a lot about someone to watch how they handle a simple difference of opinion.

Some people need to destroy and insult (hello, Lori Alexander and samurai-sarah), others do not. 

[samurai_sarah]

3 hours ago, Hisey said:

And sometimes, it says a lot about someone to watch how they handle a simple difference of opinion.

Some people need to destroy and insult (hello, Lori Alexander and samurai-sarah), others do not. 

And sometimes it all works like a mirror.

[EmmieJ]

On 4/1/2018 at 1:27 PM, samurai_sarah said:

Thank you! Sometimes the eye of the beholder says more about the beholder than the people they observe.

Wow, that is some serious shade.  

[laPapessaGiovanna]

Seriously, there's something in FJ waters lately. What's all this speculation about minors, about victims of abuse? It's not like just because a thought crossed your mind you have to write it. We don't have many rules and we can talk about anything and everything here, EXCEPT speculation about minors and victims of sex abuse.

One would think it shouldn't be difficult to think before posting: what I am writing about this minor/victim is based in reality or is speculation? If it isn't backed by facts it's speculation and I should refrain from posting. If my facts are MY past experience that I am projecting on someone else and not actual known facts related to people in question, it's still speculation, borderline with breaking rules.

If telling you that you are a step too near to speculation is bitch behaviour like Lori Alexander, fine, good to know. Next time we will be more clear.

[NakedKnees]

I'm an anonymous internet poster, not a psychological professional of any sort, but my understanding of trauma is that viewing normal interactions may be triggering for someone who's suffered from trauma. It takes a lot of emotional energy to deal with and it's important to recognize.

That said, I'm also a woman who's gotten a lot of inappropriate flack for how affectionate my family is, including between my brother and I and my father and I, and it frankly sickens me. So that's what this beholder's eye thinks of that. It becomes gross and unfair very fast.

I agree with the above: it's the survivors' decision to determine how they feel about any aspect of their narrative. Clearly they haven't expressed anything about this particular topic, so I don't see why we should either.

[MorningMist]

Jessica has posted a blog post on the topic and goes into much detail about what happened and why it happened for so long: https://www.jessicawillisfisher.com

tl;dr - All the girls (including Brenda) had suspicions of what was going on with each other but there was a deep lack of communication from them all at the hand of Toby's manipulation for them to do something until recently. Their fame played a big role in the situation and even more disturbing, when Brenda knew for certain, Toby threatened to kill her children.

[faraway]

Came here to post the link. I have no words, he abused Jessica (and probably the rest of the girls) for pretty much their whole lives. He also beat the children.

Reading her story so many things suddenly made sense. Some of this went down while they were still filming the last episodes of the show. The tension between Jessica and Toby was obvious. Also, Sean was in the preview for one episode as Jess's "someone special", he was never shown or mentioned again. Now we know why.

I'm happy to see her come forward, I think getting the distance from her family gave her room to understand and to heal. I think some of the other kids don't understand the magnitude of this situation yet and will only process everything when get older, move out of the house and get into relationships themselves.

[NakedKnees]

Wow, what an incredible account, I'm crying. I hope she and Brenda and all the siblings continue to heal.

It's amazing to me that she was able to maintain her love of music and creativity throughout all of this. It sort of reminds me of Libby Anne's story, obviously with the abuse not being present or at least being very different. Libby Anne credits her love of knowledge and ability to access critical thinking skills development as eventually helping her escape, and it sounds like music and arts may have helped Jessica in a similar way. It's quite a testament to the power of education.

[SweetLaurel]

Wow.  That was amazing.  I hope some of the other fundies can be that strong. Not sure I could be.   

[Fluffles]

My daughter and I have just read her story- omg x 1000 times. I knew he was abusive but not that bad. We saw them in concert when they were going through all this. They all seemed so happy

[MorningMist]

I just can't begin to fathom what was going through these girls minds. None of them felt they could talk and Brenda was scared if she did it would he would hurt her children more. You couldn't wish it on your worst enemy.

[faraway]

It's shocking. There was a lot of speculation whether Brenda knew, now we know she did. I hope she and the kids still at home get all the help and resources possible.

[Hisey]

Their rapist father put the kids in inappropriate situations. Isolating your kids, then having teenagers dance for hours with each other? --not my idea of good parenting. Boundaries.

With that said, I'm shocked that Brenda knew--or pretty much knew--and chose to believe the rapist over her little daughter. Then, when it all came out, she pretended she had no idea. She should've protected her little girls. 

[Ms Lucy Fur]

I’m blown away at Jessica’s courage. Not just leaving, but the courage to heal. Wow!

[MorningMist]

46 minutes ago, Hisey said:

Their rapist father put the kids in inappropriate situations. Isolating your kids, then having teenagers dance for hours with each other? --not my idea of good parenting. Boundaries.

With that said, I'm shocked that Brenda knew--or pretty much knew--and chose to believe the rapist over her little daughter. Then, when it all came out, she pretended she had no idea. She should've protected her little girls. 

I think we can all agree that Brenda should have acted sooner but I think Jess's blog really emphasises why this didn't occur. Brenda was stuck, they all were. 

I think the point I get from it is while she did have an suspicion, she didn't know for certain nor could the girls tell/express what had happened to them either out of fear. Plus, it is likely Toby was abusing Brenda also so part of it may have been fear that the attacks would get worse if she did. When she did stand up for her children, it didnt seem like she could do much before he overpowered her both mentally and physically. Likewise, she didn't have an out, she was a stay at home mother to a lot of kids that she couldn't physically protect/remove from the house all at once, spent a lot of time pregnant (and especially later on with Jaeger and Jada I believe she had troubles which only worsened the situation), and her husband was aggressive at best. It was only really until Jess's letter that outline everything that made her confront what she knew deep down was happening and the moment she did, he threaten her children.

If she had done things differently or had a better situation, things would be much different and a lot less pain would have been caused. I'm sure this is plaguing Brenda everyday. But what matters is she is doing right by her children now, and that is all and everything she can do.

[luv2laugh]

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My father sought to stamp out my rebellion and became increasingly violent towards me even in front of the family. I felt myself losing my grip on sanity. I was accused of being the only problem in the family, ruining everything. It was said I was possessed by a demon. The way things were escalating, I began to fear for my life.....In January, my father assaulted me on the tour bus in front of the entire family. He blamed my disobedience and defied everyone though my mother and siblings tried to interfere. A police car pulled up behind us and when the officer entered, I hid in my bunk to hide the blood and the forming bruises. Everyone put on their show faces....Dad came down and confronted me. When I didn’t apologize, he took off his belt and beat me like when I was younger. He said it was his god-given responsibility to punish me. It was in that moment I knew. The threats and violence stopped working. No matter how it happened, I would leave by tonight.....

It sounds like Toby was a sick, perverted abuser that used the name of God when he abused the family. He beat 24 year old Jessica with a belt and said it was his "God-given authority to punish you". 

Jessica said she has earliest memories of him sexually abusing her at only 3 years of age.
 

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As far back as I can remember, I was sexually abused by my father. I figure I was around three years old in some of the earliest memories. Initially, I had no way to know that anything was wrong.

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An initial awareness of questionable behavior began when I was around nine years old.  Something (I’m still not sure what) caused my mother to become suspicious of my father’s interactions... I didn’t understand that my father simply denied any wrongdoing and became more secretive and dangerous from then on.

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Suffice it to say my father controlled the family in every single area of life. Underneath the outward foundations of family, religion and homeschooling with an emphasis in the arts, there was a constant current of manipulation, domination, fear and favor. There was very little room inside the bubble of my world to imagine that there was any alternative....The most graphic sexual abuse faded off for me when I was around seventeen years old but many inappropriate actions and attentions

continued. 

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My father shaped us from child students to child performers and at some vaguely discernible point we became a touring dance troupe and then band. He always promoted his philosophy, showcasing the family as the living proof of the validity of his methods and beliefs....I came into my hotel room that night to find my mother and some of my sisters sitting on the bed crying with that look on their face I had seen so many times before. The coldest, blackest pit opened up in my stomach because no words needed to be said for me to know something had happened.

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One after another there were various threats of further violence and legal repercussions from dad. My mother and siblings made religious and emotional appeals..... Sean had gotten me an emergency phone that I had been too afraid to use. I now dug it out from between my mattress and boxspring and sent a message saying I was coming out.....I thought I would die but I had finally escaped. I had left everything but a few clothes and personal items....

Around 4 months after I left, another friend stepped forward to save the rest of my family. He reported my father for suspicion of sexual abuse and the official investigation started. The case was given to the Tennessee Bureau of Investigation... There was great concern on how to keep everyone alive and safe while trying to apprehend my father. It was no exaggeration to fear a violent confrontation, standoff, kidnapping or worse.

I am glad that bastard is locked up for life. He is the worst nightmare of a conservative, Patriarchal fundamentalist abuser basically holding the family hostage in threats of violence.

Given how Jessica says she was publicly assaulted by Toby, I felt angry that Brenda didn't act. I have to remind myself that it's clear Brenda was also a victim and not in the right mind-set.  Brenda probably felt trapped with 12 kids, a public platform, and probably feared for her life.

Jessica's boyfriend (now husband) was the one that got her away from the sick abuser and  got her help to tell her story to a therapist. A friend reported the abuse. Jessica went in and told her testimony of sexual abuse and assault and they used it to arrest Toby.

If Jessica writes a book, I would definitely buy it.

[Angelic83]

I just read the blog of Jessica. It shows again that what you see on tv is only a small part of it and doesn't accurately show how people live. I always thought the dad was really invested in the band but just thought he is micro managing. When I heard he was arrested I was shocked. And now after reading the blog of Jessica and hearing that all the girls where probably abused ........

I'm glad her now husband got her out and that she got some proffesional help to process this all.

[Alisamer]

You know, I'm all for privacy for the victims. They absolutely deserve it. BUT, I wish this was a bit bigger news in the wide world.

My sister, who watched their show and admired them (as she admired the Duggars, for doing everything debt free and being Christian and all that), had NO IDEA any of this had happened until I told her a week or two after the father's arrest. She can't be the only one. People who admired how "godly" and whatever this family was should know. I hope they all find out. I think I have seen news clips about it only once or twice, and they were quickly buried under whatever cheeto-dusted tweet storm was going on in DC. (That said, I'm not super up on the news. I don't watch it on TV, just check the newsfeed twice a day or so. I do however seem to get notified of every little thing the Duggars do somehow.)

Christianity can be a good thing, I'm Christian myself. But fundamentalism of any sort is dangerous, and people need to SEE that it can be a hiding place for all sorts of abuse and horror. People here at Free Jinger know, but the people who casually caught the show or saw them on other TV shows may not. It's possible to admire the children's talents (and they are very talented) and also acknowledge that their childhood wasn't all rainbows and angels and Jesus.

I find myself hoping the littlest ones were spared any abuse, and am in this one case glad the family is so big, as they have support through losing their dad.

[EmmieJ]

I'm not all the way through Jessica's blog, but I have read the part where she says in April 2015, while on tour, she walks into their hotel room to find her mom and sisters crying and upset.  Jessica does not give specifics.  What happened?  She says she knew what the looks on their faces meant:  The abuse was continuing.  So did the mom know in April 2015, but did nothing and continued filming and promoting submitting to your husband?

In August 2015, Jessica writes 14 pages describing her father's abuse and has her mom read it.   Mom is outraged, dad denies, and mom does not contact the police.  Why the hell not?  14 pages of abuse, but then life goes on.

Help me understand why the mom is getting no flack for her clear knowledge of the abuse, but taking no action to contact authorities.  It was another relative who contacted the cops.  If not for them, the abuse could be going on today.

[Nikedagain?]

Toby sounds almost Papa Pilgrimish.

That must have been a reign of terror for those children.

I'm reserving judgement at this point for Brenda, because we likely only know a fraction of the story.

So complex and so, so sick. 

[NakedKnees]

It looks like Brenda is likely yet another case of someone very much being a victim and complacent at the same time. Honestly, I don't think we know enough about the situation to give her a ton of flack. It sounds like she suffered a lot of abuse from Toby herself (definitely severe gaslighting, at the very least) but that her children support her enough not to cut her out the way they cut out Toby.

I get the impression that Jessica probably has mixed feelings on her mom right now. She's a pretty good writer, and didn't go out of her way to say "I feel x way about my mom," and I think that in itself is very telling.

Abuse and victimhood are extremely complicated.

ETA: I don't know if this is inappropriately speculative. Please feel free to let me know if so.